350 réponses à ce sujet

[Terodil]

Nobody points out the flaws in Dragon Age Origins because of nostalgia.Origins had auto dialogue where you could only pick 1 dialogue choice no matter what(Night battle in Redcliffe) & had obvious right & wrongs(hardly gray decisions).Dragon Age:Origins even had predefined tones on every line of dialogue made by pc.Dragon Age was hardly tactical & closest to bad "hack n slash" combat.Dragon Age:Origins had filler quests,stat based on level up,very linear storyline,copy/paste environments;Decisions made no difference till the ending,Awakening,Golems of Agmarrak,Witch Hunt,& the sequels.Mods saved Origins downfalls because without them while a good game was not that damn great.DA:I has only 2 things that seem MMO-ish that is semi-open worlds & filler quest but they are not restricted to just MMO genre.

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here; "MMO" is a dangerous misnomer in these kinds of discussion. Online or not, multiplayer or not, are neither valid criteria to describe features of a singleplayer game.

 

That said though, I also disagree with a lot of what you're saying here Origins had no linear story at all, unless you simply point at the existence of the same four 'factions' you need to get an alliance with in every single playthrough. At almost every step, the PC in Origins would take decisions that would shape Ferelden for a long, long time.

 

- Annul the Circle and recruit the templars; salvage the circle and recruit the mages

- Let the elves wipe out the werewolves or the other way round, or broker peace and end a conflict hundreds of years long

- Save Connor from the demon or sell his soul, basically turning him into a sleeper agent growing into a position of power

- Determine the dwarves' outlook: Traditionalist, isolationist, and ethical via Harrowmont or reformative, open, and unethical via Bhelen

 

How on earth can you call that 'linear'? those decisions have instant effects, not just on the troops available in the Denerim battle via the troop deployment wheel.

 

I'll not go into tactical vs. hack-n-slash... that just seems to be too subjective. I just disagree with your opinion.

 

Origins 9/10 -- DA:I 5/10

[Auztin]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here; "MMO" is a dangerous misnomer in these kinds of discussion. Online or not, multiplayer or not, are neither valid criteria to describe features of a singleplayer game.
 
That said though, I also disagree with a lot of what you're saying here Origins had no linear story at all, unless you simply point at the existence of the same four 'factions' you need to get an alliance with in every single playthrough. At almost every step, the PC in Origins would take decisions that would shape Ferelden for a long, long time.
 
- Annul the Circle and recruit the templars; salvage the circle and recruit the mages
- Let the elves wipe out the werewolves or the other way round, or broker peace and end a conflict hundreds of years long
- Save Connor from the demon or sell his soul, basically turning him into a sleeper agent growing into a position of power
- Determine the dwarves' outlook: Traditionalist, isolationist, and ethical via Harrowmont or reformative, open, and unethical via Bhelen
 
How on earth can you call that 'linear'? those decisions have instant effects, not just on the troops available in the Denerim battle via the troop deployment wheel.
 
I'll not go into tactical vs. hack-n-slash... that just seems to be too subjective. I just disagree with your opinion.
 
Origins 9/10 -- DA:I 5/10

The after-effects on decisions( what people say DA2 & DA:I don't have)only take shape after the main story.

[Terodil]

The after-effects on decisions( what people say DA2 & DA:I don't have)only take shape after the main story.

 

Come again, now? The "after-effects on decisions"? Are you referring to the epilogue?

[Dominic_910]

The after-effects on decisions( what people say DA2 & DA:I don't have)only take shape after the main story.

I don't give a toss what happens after the main story. Choices and Consequences should matter during the game not after it. People shouldn't have to wait for the ext game to see if their choices mattered, especially since all you'll get a small cameo or line of dialogue.

 

The Epilogue has also been retconned many times in the past and is likely to happen again so it's pretty useless.

[Rhidor]

You are welcome to argue against my opinion that the characters are bland (though please put that in spoiler tags so people that are still playing the game don't get unnecessarily spoilered), but I'll have you know that pretty much any argument that starts with "you are playing it wrong" is such a blatantly loaded statement that does zero to advance any sort of reflective discussion and serves little more purpose than get people defensive since it's basically an ad hominem argument (the game is fine, you're the problem).

 

I would prefer to not see such stuff in any potentionally following discussions.

I just wrote that since that's pretty much how you stated your point; I didn't see much explanation on why you thought the characters were written badly. I for one really enoyed all of them and even characters who annoyed me (Vivienne and Sera, sometimes) weren't badly written; they were in-character the whole time. It was just their behavior which I disliked, but from a writing perspective, they were great. 

 

If you just state that "they are bland" there's not much room to discuss it any further, as that's pretty much your opinion. It's not my place to argue against something you believe. That's the reason why my reply wasn't really constructive. 

[Grifter]

I hear the first conference when the game was a working progress

Someone know the release date please?

 

im goin to watch kung-pow meantime =)

cya later friends and dont get mad

[Auztin]

I don't give a toss what happens after the main story. Choices and Consequences should matter during the game not after it. People shouldn't have to wait for the ext game to see if their choices mattered, especially since all you'll get a small cameo or line of dialogue.
 
The Epilogue has also been retconned many times in the past and is likely to happen again so it's pretty useless.

Every consequence in Origins happens at end & after main story.

[Auztin]

Come again, now? The "after-effects on decisions"? Are you referring to the epilogue?

If you save Connor & Not Isolde it doesn't matter till the epilogue.There is no consequences till the end & epilogue.

[Fidite Nemini]

I just wrote that since that's pretty much how you stated your point; I didn't see much explanation on why you thought the characters were written badly.

 

 

I never said they were badly written. I said they were empty and utterly uninteresting. And that has little to do whether they stay in-character or not, it was their characters in the first place that make them bland.
There is no class to them compared with previous DA companions. Hell, even the recurring characters (Varric for example) lost their edge. Compared with DAO and DAII, the characters in DAI are simply not par to the course.

[Elhanan]

I never said they were badly written. I said they were empty and utterly uninteresting. And that has little to do whether they stay in-character or not, it was their characters in the first place that make them bland.
There is no class to them compared with previous DA companions. Hell, even the recurring characters (Varric for example) lost their edge. Compared with DAO and DAII, the characters in DAI are simply not par to the course.

Disagree somewhat. While I am not fond of Sera, Iron Bull, or Blackwall myself, this is mostly due to their use of vulgarity. Blackwall still has an intriguing story to tell, even w/o hearing banter from him as an active member of the party. While I dislike Vivienne, it is because the character is so well written; love to loathe her, and her banter with Solas is some of the best. And while Varric has become more of a whiner, considering the events of the past decade or so is somewhat understandable; still far better than Ashley or Kaiden in their PTSD states in ME3.

But I am fond of Cassandra, Josie, Leliana, Dorian, Solas, and contend that Cole is one of the best companions in Bioware lore; even have grown to like Cullen after all this time. These are rich characters for me; well above the standards seen in most games.

[Fidite Nemini]

Disagree somewhat. While I am not fond of Sera, Iron Bull, or Blackwall myself, this is mostly due to their use of vulgarity. Blackwall still has an intriguing story to tell, even w/o hearing banter from him as an active member of the party. While I dislike Vivienne, it is because the character is so well written; love to loathe her, and her banter with Solas is some of the best. And while Varric has become more of a whiner, considering the events of the past decade or so is somewhat understandable; still far better than Ashley or Kaiden in their PTSD states in ME3.

But I am fond of Cassandra, Josie, Leliana, Dorian, Solas, and contend that Cole is one of the best companions in Bioware lore; even have grown to like Cullen after all this time. These are rich characters for me; well above the standards seen in most games.

 

I'd say Dorian is the only companion that I found endearing and that only really because his sense of humor reminds me of Silly!Hawke. I know there's a tragic story to him, but I for the love of it can't continue playing the game to ever find out.

[ardarn]

Deleted.

[TheOgre]

Nobody points out the flaws in Dragon Age Origins because of nostalgia.Origins had auto dialogue where you could only pick 1 dialogue choice no matter what(Night battle in Redcliffe) & had obvious right & wrongs(hardly gray decisions).Dragon Age:Origins even had predefined tones on every line of dialogue made by pc.Dragon Age was hardly tactical & closest to bad "hack n slash" combat.Dragon Age:Origins had filler quests,stat based on level up,very linear storyline,copy/paste environments;Decisions made no difference till the ending,Awakening,Golems of Agmarrak,Witch Hunt,& the sequels.Mods saved Origins downfalls because without them while a good game was not that damn great.DA:I has only 2 things that seem MMO-ish that is semi-open worlds & filler quest but they are not restricted to just MMO genre.

 

What are you even saying? No tactics, linear storyline.. You had so many things that could change based on decisions made from prior..

 

And about the beginning right there, the bold.. you probably ignore posts that have good and bad just to throw out that extreme. DA:O was far from perfect, but it was fun.

[Elhanan]

Ok. I just finished reading through this thread and only one thing I like to ask out of curiosity:
Is "Elhanan" a paid forumer?
I am sorry to ask but i have never seen anyone who is only saying amazing things about a game On a forum. Not a single bad word. Not even a little. Nada.
She is keep reasoning and trying to prove how great, amazing, rich, choise full, funny, emotional, touching, well-written, complex, decisions matter kinda game, with huge impact on the amazingly, touching story. She is using very specific, out of place phrases and wording over and over again, that gives me the impression that I am reading an advertisment.

You must have missed my posts on removing Attribute distribution, weapon proficiencies, the added use of profanity, and many more topics for DAI, as well as for other titles. But I have been posting since '98-'99 on the various forums, so there is much to cover.

And no payment is required; complimenting and constructively criticizing Bioware games is a pleasure. While I do miss some of the older friends I have made here, new ones keep appearing, so there is hope.

[TheOgre]

Seen Elhanan make some criticism posts... of DAI. 

[ardarn]

You must have missed my posts on removing Attribute distribution, weapon proficiencies, the added use of profanity, and many more topics for DAI, as well as for other titles. But I have been posting since '98-'99 on the various forums, so there is much to cover.

And no payment is required; complimenting and constructively criticizing Bioware games is a pleasure. While I do miss some of the older friends I have made here, new ones keep appearing, so there is hope.

I deleted my original post, did not want to accuse you, just got really ....surprised, I guess.

Had a couple of hours and your name popped up many times on various threads ( Edit: i can look up your 12,196?! Active posts based on your forum history, meanwhile I have 112 ) saying just amazing things about this game, and hinting subtle discomfort about some of the game mechanism.

Anyway, if you enjoy the game I am happy for you, but I have to agree with the others.....altogether it is a watered down hastly put together game that is just a shell what it could have been. Has it's moments, but painfully at the end just not enough to outshine the bad ones.

[DragonAddict]

Very well written and I agree.

[Raoni Luna]

I can finish the game, I did, multiple times. But yes, it is boring indeed.

2 things however keep me going, and they are very specific:

1 - I love to craft, so one of my saves is all about farming Sulevin and crafting (and naming *o*) all the gear of my character and my companions. The character is "The Fashion Blacksmith", and this one takes a huge time in a save mostly to find the exact fade-touched materials. And is my canon Inqui, my favorite one. It is still sad because I treat this save of mine like a MMORPG offline, like most people say, it is somehow fun, but as I said, very specific to my taste won't work for everybody (but my character became so fabulous with pink, purple and black armor you won't believe *o* specially in my pink and purple deer mount)

2 - Romance. Love romance and different romancing options.

 

Most of other things just don't work and thus I understand people getting bored or not being able to replay the game after the first playthrough. In my case the two above will get me going for at least more 4 hundred hours so I expect more than 1000 hours of DAI in total. So in a sense I could say I love the game.  But I don't =(

I really hate the direction they went, even if they presented me with a game that allow me to have hours and hours of fun it does not feel like Dragon Age for me. It is a great game, if they released as, let's say, Final Fantasy XIV offline, amazing, but as a Dragon Age, that is not what I was expecting so all my pros are details and not the game itself. Like Morrigan, Sera, Cassandra and so on, but not the story or the feeling the previous games gave me. Really sad.

 

I will buy the next games since Inquisition had me so obsessed with, it works well as offline MMO, I have been playing MMOs since forever now and I don't mean it as an offense. But really, I'd rather it was not a Dragon Age, hope Bioware take few steps back to rethink the direction of the franchise. IMO as I stated in another topic, multiple games is by far the best option. Like releasing the main game, then two spin-offs with very different styles then the main sequel.

 

Just imagine if before they release DA4 they released a "DA Black Flag" with Isabela and other characters featuring ship battles, infiltration and so on and another game with a more stealthy group of underdogs instead of this whole "I'm here come and get me" that is Inquisition? Thedas is big, thedas is interesting, there are a lot of stories going on and focusing only in the main series is limiting. Also with multiple games they could use their "wonderful" (sorry guys) ideas out of the main games so they wouldn't need to put it all in one game.

 

Imagine:

"Cole Creed"

"Fenris May Cry"

"Grand Theft Isabela"

"Serafield"

 

Ok, maybe you shouldn't.

[atlantico]

Actually IMHO BIoware has gone back to its roots. Inquisition is close to Baldur's Gate one in design. One problem that some gamers have is confusing  BG1 and BG2. 

 

I adored Baldur's Gate and still do, played it through so many times I know it by heart. I always wished BG2 would have been more like it. 

 

Comparing Baldur's Gate to DA:I is actually not the craziest thing I have heard, but that's not the game which it is actually similar to. DA:I is DA2 with some additions. Skill trees, design, artwork, combat, it all speaks of DA2. 

 

Inquisition is close to Dragon Age 2 in design. I wish it was close to Baldur's Gate, truly. I wish I could even say that it's closer to Baldur's Gate in design, but it's shoulder to shoulder with Dragon Age 2 in design. 

 

Exploring the land doesn't make it Baldur's Gate. But it's nice to have. It's a beautiful world. 

 

However,

Flashy mage dancing isn't Baldur's Gate.

Lack of basic AD&D agency isn't Baldur's Gate.

Uniformity of character classes isn't Baldur's Gate.

DPS combat isn't Baldur's Gate.

Grind-to-craft isn't Baldur's Gate. 

Items and money without value isn't Baldur's Gate.

A static sun isn't Baldur's Gate.

Free potions isn't Baldur's Gate.

No inventory isn't Baldur's Gate.

The arbitrary weapon restriction isn't Baldur's Gate.

 

Not a lot of Baldur's Gate in this game, except the chance to explore... but it's full to the brim with the goddam abortion that was DA2.

 

The PC controls feel unfinished, and the AI is braindead

 

Yes. That was not the case with Baldur's Gate. The AI there was very rudimentary, but not actually braindead. Ranged and spellcasters would actually move away from melee combat, not into it.

 

More importantly, one could also just let it go, give up on it and turn it off - which was for me a much smarter option in important fights. 

 

In DA:I the AI can never be turned off. Your companions will always attack someone automagically, move, follow you etc. even with AI tactics off. Baldur's Gate allowed the player of the game 100% control over the characters and that was a viable option because the AI was not always reliable. 

[Rhidor]

I can finish the game, I did, multiple times. But yes, it is boring indeed.

How is that even possible?

[Miggs]

Got about a ¼ way into second playthrough and I just thought WTF am I doing.

 

Turned it off and having a blast with Dragon Knight Saga.

 

Sometimes...less is more.

[Raoni Luna]

How is that even possible?

I meant, as you can read IN THE REST OF THE POST, that I enjoy it, but I understand that it is boring for a lot of people because the reasons I enjoyed are mostly my obsessions and not game quality. What I tried to say is that I like the game and won't stop playing it anytime soon, but the way I play the game would probably be classified by most people as boring... like entering Sulevin a thousand times until I end up with 60/60 itens then going Val Royeaux selling it all and then going back to Sulevin for like 8 hours straight. Also stopping doing quests when only Hissing Wastes and Emprise du Lion are left to grind to level 25 and then do the rest of the game to reach level 27. Do you understand it? Not the idea of a great game right? Works for me. But it is boring.

[Elhanan]

...

Anyway, if you enjoy the game I am happy for you, but I have to agree with the others.....altogether it is a watered down hastly put together game that is just a shell what it could have been. Has it's moments, but painfully at the end just not enough to outshine the bad ones.

I would not call a four year development cycle hasty, esp when I was ready to play it thirteen months before the delay. While there are some mechanics I do wish had gone another way (or may return *crosses fingers*), the game itself is enjoyable, well written, and is an aesthetic pleasure for the eyes and ears.

[Thatkat09]

You must have missed my posts on removing Attribute distribution, weapon proficiencies, the added use of profanity, and many more topics for DAI, as well as for other titles. But I have been posting since '98-'99 on the various forums, so there is much to cover.

And no payment is required; complimenting and constructively criticizing Bioware games is a pleasure. While I do miss some of the older friends I have made here, new ones keep appearing, so there is hope.

 

I feel that ardarn's post really highlights why bioware has all together abandoned this forum. Negativity and hostility will always prevail here, and if your opinion is opposite of that then be prepared for backlash/accusations. Its not as bad as it was for prior games but its still obviously here. Really is a shame, this forum could be a fantastic place for great conversation about bioware's games. But because of how toxic this forum appears to most people(http://www.reddit.co...social_network/) its avoided like the plague. If you ever get the chance, you should check out the Dragon Age reddit. The atmosphere is alot calmer and there's respectful conversation instead of the echo chamber of negativity that this place has become(I was here for the ME2 launch, the thread "a majority of us are disappointed" springs to mind). 

[Raoni Luna]

I would not call a four year development cycle hasty, esp when I was ready to play it thirteen months before the delay. While there are some mechanics I do wish had gone another way (or may return *crosses fingers*), the game itself is enjoyable, well written, and is an aesthetic pleasure for the eyes and ears.

Enjoyable = Depends, since it is subjective.

 

Well written = This part needs to be cautiously divided for analysis. Good plot? Good side quests? Good characters? Good lore? Each one of these and many others would need a careful in depth analysis. Personally I would only go for characters in Inquisition, except, the Inquisitor. Villain as many people point is kind of shallow. When it comes to main plot it is 5/10, meaning 5/10, not 5/10 meaning 0/10, because the plot is not that good for a newbie in Thedas. The introduction of the Corypheus, even when Hawke talks about him is faulty. Could be intended, don't know, perhaps for players to play the first two games? But considering Inquisition by itself plot can be sometimes shallow comparing to what players of previous games enjoy. Considering how much they revamped the game to get new players they REALLY should have made a main plot more welcoming. the returning of Corypheus... not wise. Keep in mind that a writting that pleases you is not effectively a good one. What Bioware REALLY know how to do is characters. Other things... well... I believe they can do it better but they are afraid of the fans hatred. I liked Mass Effect 3 ending, it was a very interesting choice, somehow original, but players can't deal with that so I guess they're taking the safe way now...

 

Aesthetically = Dislike the art direction for a Dragon Age game but absolutely love the result. I do use SweetFX to enhance vibrance and contrast, game becomes even more Final Fantasy (and kk hates it), but I will not dismiss the dark areas, in my current playthrough I took my time to enjoy fallow mire, it is amazing how they managed to mix dark and colorful areas in the game. But I would still prefer the more uniform dark tone from DAO to a DA game, DA means darkness for me after all... As a plus, also in this current playthrough exalted plains felt more dark as opposed to my first playthrough where I felt weird to see undead and demons walking in a beautiful green land... don't know.. maybe game takes time to get used to?

 

But the point here is that technically DAI is not a masterpiece. So it all comes down to preferences. Ultimately DAI is a game that depends heavily on the player investment. Story can be shallow and rushed if one does not spend time into doing side quests and reading codexes. Being new to the franchise can be troublesome when you have big decisions to make. Also the whole lore and the key questions of Thedas are as big as a player knowledge of Thedas, for those who are completely unaware of civil war in Orlais or the Mage Templar war it is all way too "overrated". I think it is a huge failure of Inquisition, treat itself like a Star Wars with a well known basic lore... works for us but it is important to take into consideration that we are involved in the game and in the story so things that are interesting to us may seem completely out of place for other people, not only newbies but people who played only Origins or DA2.

 

Among my many discussions with my firend (kk) there is one thing we agree totally: They could have written this game in a way that it makes more interesting to complete some quests, it should depend less on the player. KK's girlfriend quit doing side quests after Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts she just wanted to finish it, she skipped a part of Exalted Plains and almost everything from Emerald Graves, Emprise du Lion and Hissing Wastes, she just killed the dragons in these maps and finished companion quests. For someone who is not already into Thedas most side quests offer too little, even rewards.

 

Game does not properly introduces the racial problems of Thedas, or any great conflict in Thedas, but the story depends too much on the knowledge of these. How big or how little corypheus is depends a lot on how much you know for the story of the chantry and the importance of the myth. I don't know if you can understand and agree to what I'm talking about but I would also like to add that I understand perfectly that it would be difficult for Bioware to please the old fans and the newcomers, but what I think is that they should have chosen a focus more clearly.

 

Again, as I'm following since Origins it is not a problem for me, but it is a problem of the story. If they want each game to have a new protagonist and offer the oportunity for new players to be part of the game they should either make stories that depend less on thedas lore or spend more time to make the player get into it. I don't know if I would have this opinion if I didn't watch a newcomer playing... but I did and it became very clear to me.