411 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

Only an extremely generous amount of mental gymnastics can excuse what has been done to this original game concept. I don't know whether it was various Bioware employees moving on to other careers or internal shifts between creative types that altered what was intended into what currently has been done, but there is little doubt that we moved away from what was meant to be.

 

 

 

With literally 4 different ending each with some variation,the DR was meant to be nothing from the beginning.

The others endings are variables killer,they do not even need to be adressed.

[robertthebard]

Only an extremely generous amount of mental gymnastics can excuse what has been done to this original game concept. I don't know whether it was various Bioware employees moving on to other careers or internal shifts between creative types that altered what was intended into what currently has been done, but there is little doubt that we moved away from what was meant to be.
 
A portion of that old god baby storytelling dynamic may simply have grown out of an organic change to the content based upon the new elements introduced for Inquisition and thus may not really need to be taken to task. I do however wish that in such instances the devs would just state outright - without equivocation - that they changed their minds in order to go a different path.
 
Often in this franchise, we are actively engaged in some storytelling path or a specific follow up is heavily intimated, only to discover later on that we received something entirely different and then these very same devs have the temerity to suggest that fans misinterpreted their meaning? That is not always true, but there is little that we can do about it!

No gymnastics required, check out BioWare's default state: F DE who does the US to end the 5th Blight. If other games had been on the table during the writing phase, then that would have, most likely, wound up being the ending, barring, of course, race/gender selection of the player, but the US would have been the only ending. From my own experiences with Origins, it was definitely the most satisfying ending of what was offered. If, however, you're really curious about why they may have decided to leave the DR as non-canonical, you may want to peruse the Origins forums, go back a few years and check out the rather heated discussions concerning the DR, it was not as popular back then as people would lead us to believe.

[Aren]

No gymnastics required, check out BioWare's default state: F DE who does the US to end the 5th Blight. If other games had been on the table during the writing phase, then that would have, most likely, wound up being the ending, barring, of course, race/gender selection of the player, but the US would have been the only ending. From my own experiences with Origins, it was definitely the most satisfying ending of what was offered. If, however, you're really curious about why they may have decided to leave the DR as non-canonical, you may want to peruse the Origins forums, go back a few years and check out the rather heated discussions concerning the DR, it was not as popular back then as people would lead us to believe.

 

Would you not prefer to become a wandering ghost,ready to go into the lands of far far away to meet Queen Lillian and King Harold instead?

[MrMrPendragon]

I thought the DR was to bypass the sacrifice. Everything else was a bonus, including the child. Making it a big deal or story arc would have sucked for the US'ers out there.

 

The problem was that players like me treated it as a chance to explore old mysteries and open up new storylines. And now, it turns out that it didn't really amount to anything.

 

Sure, there are some people who wanted the Warden to survive the final battle, but for myself, choosing the DR was never about survival. It was about taking this other option and see where it leads, rather than sticking to your typical "Heroic Sacrifice" route.

[Aren]

choosing the DR was never about survival. It was about taking this other option and see where it leads, rather than sticking to your typical "Heroic Sacrifice" route.

Yes,because children conceived in secrecy and  gave it a jolt of life on a dark and stormy Geheimnisnacht night is not something typical  in a fantasy setting.

If so i found the redemption to  be more compelling and original

[robertthebard]

The problem was that players like me treated it as a chance to explore old mysteries and open up new storylines. And now, it turns out that it didn't really amount to anything.
 
Sure, there are some people who wanted the Warden to survive the final battle, but for myself, choosing the DR was never about survival. It was about taking this other option and see where it leads, rather than sticking to your typical "Heroic Sacrifice" route.

So BioWare should have stuck to the headcanon of everyone that decided the DR was "more than meets the eye"? That would make for some wild story telling, just off the top of my head, Kieran would have been the Inquisitor in some games, because people swore up and down that's who the Inquisitor was.

[Gaia300]

I'm not surprised that the OGB was not such a big deal,however i was greatly surprised that was handled in a manner beyond farcical.

The DR was not my Origins ending,but then again something more shady coming from the kid would have been more interesting.

I mean the grey choice that lies within the fact that two soul are in the same body.

I still remember Connor (yes it was a demon) but still he was more shady and interesting than Kieran.

So something grey about mess with  souls would have been appreciated.

[The Oracle]

OGB was far too large a plot twist to have been put in the game as a fluid choice. Saving the soul of an Old God, one of the great powers that supposedly challenged the Maker and caused the Magisters to enter the Fade and storm the Black City, bringing the Blight and causing the Maker to turn from His children. Having that live again, in the body of a child, I would argue that it's as big a revelation as Mythal and Solas. Definitely bigger than Corypheus. Especially given how much of it links to the Chantry. It's the equivalent of "Satan" being cast out into the Void and then returned to the world in a physical body ala "Damien" from The Omen (if Satan was made up of several gods and not just the one).

 

Just the questions and implications that it raises are massive and completely swept under the carpet. It would have been easier, i think, if Bioware had simply insinuated that Morrigan, due to the fear that the Old God's Soul (OGS) would completely overwhelm and destroy her son's soul, performed a ritual to destroy it, and Kieran is just himself in-game. Flemeth is just so blaise when taking the OGS from Kieran, like she picks a couple up from the store every week, that I get the feeling that they'll just be a brief mention in some DLC or follow up, and that it will be conveniently avoided thereafter.

[Illegitimus]

What confused me about the Morrigan and Flemeth reunion scene is after you leave the Eluvian, and Morrigan says "she wanted the Old God soul all along", and I'm thinking to myself, well duhhh, that's why she gave you the ritual and told you to follow the Warden in the first place? Did you forget? Then she says she doesn't know what Flemeth intends to do with it, and I'm even further baffled. Well, why did you want the OGS? Did she not give you any further instructions beyond, "make sure you seduce that warden and get laid with him so you can get prego and get that Soul". 

 

 

It's unlikely Flemeth gave Morrigan even that much instruction.  The reason why Morrigan wanted it was because Morrigan has been raised to value old magical things and knowledge and to preserve them whenever possible.  So it would be predictable to Flemeth that if Morrigan got her hands on the spell from Flemeth's book, she'd use it.  Not telling Morrigan to do it eliminated the chance that Morrigan would decide to get contrary and not do it just because Flemeth told her to.  Actually what I kind of wish is that the puddle of souls had been left out of the versions of the game that had Kieron since it's kind of redundant if they they already have a repository of ancient knowledge for Flemeth to take.  

[Knight of Dane]

I always thought it was obvious this would happen. World shaking things never happen to characters that might not exist for many people.

[Aren]

It's unlikely Flemeth gave Morrigan even that much instruction.  The reason why Morrigan wanted it was because Morrigan has been raised to value old magical things and knowledge and to preserve them whenever possible. 

This is way i believe that she is naive and also very stupid,the Warden is risking personal life to end the blight a good cause,while Morrigan is there risking her life for 1 year (also she need to convince a GW) to save a being of which she knew nothing about,and all of this without even knowing on how to take advantage from the Old god soul( like Flemeth),very stupid.

[MisterJB]

 

They should have just canonized the OGB. Yes, yes, removing player agency but, c'mon! This is the soul of an Old God being reborn in a human child. How can you say you are not interested in this?

 

They'll have the Maker ressurect Leliana (literally) but, for a plot point of this quality, they won't override the player's choices?

 

So, now, we are left with one of the biggest, most speculated about question in the entire DA franchise being absolutely nothing.

[Aren]

 

 

They should have just canonized the OGB. Yes, yes, removing player agency but, c'mon! 

 

 Definitely No,if i said no  to the DR is No end of the story.

 

[Secret Rare]

 

 

They should have just canonized the OGB. Yes, yes, removing player agency but, c'mon! This is the soul of an Old God being reborn in a human child. How can you say you are not interested in this?

 

 

As other users pointed out the DR was very unpopular back at 2009 from the topic of the BSN,it cannot be canon.

[Ryzaki]

 

 

They should have just canonized the OGB. Yes, yes, removing player agency but, c'mon! This is the soul of an Old God being reborn in a human child. How can you say you are not interested in this?

 

They'll have the Maker ressurect Leliana (literally) but, for a plot point of this quality, they won't override the player's choices?

 

So, now, we are left with one of the biggest, most speculated about question in the entire DA franchise being absolutely nothing.

 

 

Quite easily actually. God soul in human body is not a new concept. At all. It's not even for new for BioWare. Looking at you baldur's gate.

 

And believe me I thought the Leliana thing equally bad. The solution to ignoring player choice isn't ignoring more player choice.

[ComedicSociopathy]

The OGB was a big deal, at least to Morrigan anyways, but then a much bigger deal (Flemeth/Mythal) came along and took his significance. Oh well. Kid was annoyingly cryptic anyways so I'm kind of glad he's gone. And besides, at least Bioware did do something with the old god soul, and its entirely possible that it may factor into the story in an another way further down the line. 

[Reznore57]

 

 

 

So, now, we are left with one of the biggest, most speculated about question in the entire DA franchise being absolutely nothing.

 

 

Not exactly.

We still don't know why Flemeth wanted an Old God soul , we still don't know exactly what's an Old God either.

What we learn is Morrigan didn't really know what the hell she was doing .

I imagine Urthemiel's soul got destroyed when Solas killed Flemeth.

There's still 2 old gods underground , and chances Mythal is still there somewhere.

[Darkstarr11]

I think it was but one possibility towards a specific end.  Either the Dark Ritual, or something else was going to lead to Solas.  I figure if he didn't get the OGS from Flemeth, he would get it somewhere else.  OR...possibly it was what Flemeth wanted Morrigan to have.  She may have taken it from Keiran as a test to see if Morrigan was ready for such a responsibility. I think she planned for an occasion where someone might kill her permanently and she would need someone else to carry on her 'work' as it were.  Solas took HER power, but we know she invested another part somewhere for Morrigan to find.  Maybe this was the OGS?  Maybe this is what was to help her in case Solas tried to control her?

 

Just something to chew on...

[Secret Rare]

Solas took HER power, but we know she invested another part somewhere for Morrigan to find. 

David Gaider already confirmed that the developers notes find within the game are not the absolute truth

http://forum.bioware...derstood/page-3

[German Soldier]

 

 

They should have just canonized the OGB. Yes, yes, removing player agency but, c'mon! This is the soul of an Old God being reborn in a human child. How can you say you are not interested in this?

 

They'll have the Maker ressurect Leliana (literally) but, for a plot point of this quality, they won't override the player's choices?

 

So, now, we are left with one of the biggest, most speculated about question in the entire DA franchise being absolutely nothing.

 

 

I think it was but one possibility towards a specific end.  Either the Dark Ritual, or something else was going to lead to Solas.  I figure if he didn't get the OGS from Flemeth, he would get it somewhere else.  OR...possibly it was what Flemeth wanted Morrigan to have.  She may have taken it from Keiran as a test to see if Morrigan was ready for such a responsibility. I think she planned for an occasion where someone might kill her permanently and she would need someone else to carry on her 'work' as it were.  Solas took HER power, but we know she invested another part somewhere for Morrigan to find.  Maybe this was the OGS?  Maybe this is what was to help her in case Solas tried to control her?

 

Just something to chew on...

the OGB and the OGS are completely irrelevant since 1978, you're behind,it is time to update.

[Aren]

the OGB and the OGS are completely irrelevant since 1978, you're behind,it is time to update.

 Well the entire Thedas is behind compared to the german soldiers,they need to update at least for the next 1400-1800 years as far as i'm concerned

[Darkstarr11]

David Gaider already confirmed that the developers notes find within the game are not the absolute truth

http://forum.bioware...derstood/page-3

 

True, but Gaider himself is no longer part of DA.  He has moved on to new projects, so the current team determines what is canon.  Still, I kinda HOPE that up there is the case.  A bit nerve wracking at times...I remember that a WHOLE chunk of ME lore was tossed out to serve a new ending in 3.  Retconning every new game will just irk long time fans...

 

Basically, just want some consistency...

[perfect_victime]

(1) They couldn't make an optional element plot-critical.
(2) They wouldn't make an element that made many people uncomfortable plot-critical in a good way.
 
So yeah, I'm disappointed, but I can live with the nullification, because it's almost a certainty that I would've hated any alternative. Bioware doesn't write controversy any more without resolving it in a conformist way. Which is, btw, what happened here. I'm only ok with it because it could've been worse.

This is very enlightening. Thank you. I am being honest and not sarcastic. I shouldn't have to say that but in post today there seems to be so many haters. You should get a star for best answer in a Bioware post.

[Akiza]

 

 

They should have just canonized the OGB. Yes, yes, removing player agency but, c'mon! This is the soul of an Old God being reborn in a human child. How can you say you are not interested in this?

 

They'll have the Maker ressurect Leliana (literally) but, for a plot point of this quality, they won't override the player's choices?

 

So, now, we are left with one of the biggest, most speculated about question in the entire DA franchise being absolutely nothing.

 

player agency>headcanon

No they will not override my choices for your headcanon.

I never did the Ritual the old god was killed and my decision was final.

[Nixou]

No they will not override my choices for your headcanon.

 

 

Until they do.