It isn't. This isn't a reborn god, but a human with a magical aspect added. There is no single piece of evidence that Kieran carries Urthemiel's will.
Then you either didn't pay attention or misunderstood,a soul carry his own will,urthemiel unlike Mythal was not a fragment
It isn't. This isn't a reborn god, but a human with a magical aspect added. There is no single piece of evidence that Kieran carries Urthemiel's will.
Yes, Bioware didn't expect so many to willingly give into the black ritual and totally watered down it's "evil" ramifications into just a Mother with a "special" son. That being said I liked what they did with Kieran and hope they bring him along into a full companion character even if they have to send him from a parallel dimension into ones in which he wasn't created.
There are absolutely 0 evil ramifications to the "DR" even as Morrigan directly pitches it to you in DAO. It requires a pretty particular and narrow moral view to have any objection to it if you actually believe Morrigan.Yes, Bioware didn't expect so many to willingly give into the black ritual and totally watered down it's "evil" ramifications into just a Mother with a "special" son. That being said I liked what they did with Kieran and hope they bring him along into a full companion character even if they have to send him from a parallel dimension into ones in which he wasn't created.
There are absolutely 0 evil ramifications to the "DR" even as Morrigan directly pitches it to you in DAO. It requires a pretty particular and narrow moral view to have any objection to it if you actually believe Morrigan.
If you trust her, the only imaginable downside is that Urmethiel might at some point in the future be back, and that's only assuming Urmethiel is even a bad or rotten being without the taint.
I would suggest that Bioware thought the "DR" and ME3 "Destroy" would be tough moral calls for many but in the real world application most people didn't care about Bioware's conceptual definitions of right and wrong.
That being said I liked what they did with Kieran and hope they bring him along into a full companion character even if they have to send him from a parallel dimension into ones in which he wasn't created.
Or they could take a cue from Awakening or the Mass Effect series and start bringing more substitute characters in. Just like you had Wrex and Wreav, you'd have Kieran and not-Kieran
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I would suggest that Bioware thought the "DR" and ME3 "Destroy" would be tough moral calls for many but in the real world application most people didn't care about Bioware's conceptual definitions of right and wrong.
The Destroy ending did pose a tough dilemma for players who had grown attached to EDI & the Geth and/or viewed exterminating one's allies was too much of a betrayal.
Or they could take a cue from Awakening or the Mass Effect series and start bringing more substitute characters in. Just like you had Wrex and Wreav, you'd have Kieran and not-Kieran
No I'd rather they force Kieran into everybody's story.
I would suggest that Bioware thought the "DR" and ME3 "Destroy" would be tough moral calls for many but in the real world application most people didn't care about Bioware's conceptual definitions of right and wrong.
No I'd rather they force Kieran into everybody's story.
I'd rather they didn't.
There are absolutely 0 evil ramifications to the "DR" even as Morrigan directly pitches it to you in DAO. It requires a pretty particular and narrow moral view to have any objection to it if you actually believe Morrigan.
If you trust her, the only imaginable downside is that Urmethiel might at some point in the future be back, and that's only assuming Urmethiel is even a bad or rotten being without the taint.
I kind of like it, actually.
It is basically saying that even Morrigan, with all her knowledge and intelligence
There are absolutely 0 evil ramifications to the "DR" even as Morrigan directly pitches it to you in DAO. It requires a pretty particular and narrow moral view to have any objection to it if you actually believe Morrigan.
Morrigan is very good at pretending she knows what she's doing, to the point she's convinced herself. Morrigan, after all, in DA:I, spends most of her role pretending she's some expert on elven lore and magic yet is about as wrong as any Dalish elf .
Well, she is as much an expert in Dalish lore than a Human can be: it's just that, like most of her contemporaries, she's making the mistake to assume that the Kingdom of the Dales was Arlathan reborn because both populations kinda worshipped the same gods: when facing Elven ruins, she assumes similarities with Dalish structures, and her reasoning soon collapses because of this faulty postulate.
So something that in the form of a person is MORE threatening than a dragon and an unstoppable army that has near infinite numbers. That's ridiculous.
Ok post was old but i did not resist
Ok post was old but i did not resist
That seriously looks like they just reused the drinking animation from Mass Effect.
That seriously looks like they just reused the drinking animation from Mass Effect.
Only without the helmet getting in the way 
As for DR, the question was always whether this was some kind of possession-like effect or not. If you never explore Morrigan's conversation options fully at the time when she asks you, you may come to assume that it is, but in fact that's not the case and she tells you so if you ask. DAI and DAO are in complete accord in this: her child is/will be an uncorrupted human child with a magical extra, not a god possessing the body of a human child. With that problem out of the way, the question is more about whether the power the god-soul bestows is worth a possibly otherwise undesirable influence that its presence might have. It's just too bad that DAI didn't explore that further, but whether the DR was a good or bad thing would have to be determined by Kieran himself. It can only be viewed as immoral at the time you are asked to enact it if you believe that the roots of our existence should remain inaccessible to human artifice. That's actually a rather common assumption, but IMO it can't be reasonably upheld.
Doesn't Flemeth take away the soul?
So in the end, all that's left is literally just a normal human child. Kind of a shame.
Doesn't Flemeth take away the soul?
So in the end, all that's left is literally just a normal human child. Kind of a shame.
Indeed, I thought so. It's my main complaint with the way the DR and its consequences were handled. Kieran with a god-soul would've been infinitely more interesting, but I guess they didn't want to tell more stories about him, so he became normal and now they can forget him.
Well, dangers of save importing... Choices can never be allowed to have a major impact. Or, if they do, they won't be touched upon in subsequent games, which amounts to the same thing.
Kind of a shame what?For those like me who never cared for the archdemon and happily buried him with Loghain things were resolved at DAO.
Its just that it makes the whole decision so much easier.
Why sacrifice when you can have sex and live?
Indeed, I thought so. It's my main complaint with the way the DR and its consequences were handled. Kieran with a god-soul would've been infinitely more interesting, but I guess they didn't want to tell more stories about him, so he became normal and now they can forget him.
It's more like people expected him to have a pivotal role at some point, and he can't. Not everyone did the DR. In fact, it was hotly contested then, I know, I was in on that conversation, or rather, those conversations. The only way to make him relevant would be to canonize the DR, and that would alienate a lot of people too.
My canon Warden didn't refuse the DR due to any real distrust of Morrigan, but because once she learned what would happen if she took the killing blow, she decided that that was her "out". Alistair crapped on her on the way to Redcliffe, accusing her of something to cover his lies. A lie of omission is still a lie. Then he stormed off to be a drunk, or maybe died. I didn't want Loghain to pass the Joining and then get an easy out from his crimes, so she went for the US. She didn't want to survive the encounter. She actually didn't want to save Denerim, but the game didn't give her that option. Why would a CE care if the Shems burned, after all? It's not like they were exceptionally kind to her people before the Blight, and it's not like anything was going to change after, so why not fortify the Alienage, and let the rest of the city burn?
At any rate, the US was chosen not because of Morrigan, but because of the way the game "treated" her on her journey to the final fight. She saved as many of her people as she could, and ended the AD and herself, so that she wouldn't have to deal with the crap any more. Then people wanted to canonize the DR, taking away all the meaningful things I accomplished with my US ending, so that they could, in the words of another poster, have sex and live. No thanks, it's not like she was even going to be the one having sex, Loghain would have.
It's more like people expected him to have a pivotal role at some point, and he can't. Not everyone did the DR. In fact, it was hotly contested then, I know, I was in on that conversation, or rather, those conversations. The only way to make him relevant would be to canonize the DR, and that would alienate a lot of people too.
I agree that canonizing the DR would've been undesirable, as much as I'd have liked it personally, but I don't agree that would've been necessary to make the DR relevant. I would've been perfectly fine with a large sidequest only available to those who did the DR, while the others got a different sidequest instead. A story whose protagonist I play, rather than only read about, loses its impact if all decisions are flavor decisions to define my character, and never have any significant in-world consequences.
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