411 réponses à ce sujet

[Reznore57]

I'm pretty happy with how it turned out .

I was afraid of a powerful OGB with special powa   I'm glad I didn't create a monster.

The OGB made me look back at DAO and think "Waow those characters (my warden included) were all young and stupid " , and I kinda like it.

Morrigan never really wonder about what the hell she was doing , the soul was something old and powerful , she wanted it.End of the story.

My warden told Alistair to do it , so it was extra awkward.

 

Now there's Kieran , I feel a bit uneasy about him .Morrigan loves him very much now , but he was created for selfish reasons .His mother is willing to sacrifice herself for knowledge and power , she says he's strong and can take care of himself...he's 10 years old!

My warden and King Alistair don't seem to care about him either.

And the poor boy was forced to share his body with an Old God , it's not like Flemeth , nobody gave him a choice about it.

And non OGB Kieran acts like a normal ten years old , OGB Kieran is a different story.

So I feel like there's some consequences .

[In Exile]

I disagree. Morrigan, as a character written by Bioware, provides insane amounts of tantalizing and purposefully foreshadowing-esque lines about the child prior to the DR. Post-game, Bioware didn't wave the flag of saying "this choice will change the world!" but their character sure did.

Another instance of Save Import buyer's remorse.

But on that point we don't know the answer. We have no idea whether the existence of the OGB soul might change some part of the future plot. People's issue right now is that the baby isn't important. But that's not the same as the decision not mattering.

This is of course also different from the idea that the US could ever have been the correct choice.

[Mes]

Welcome to the differences between media with branching narratives and ones with a single story arc. If the DA franchise were confined to novels or movies or even linear action/adventure games, the OGB likely would have developed into something with much more significance. But because his existence depends on choices the player has made, his impact in the story has to be relegated to something relatively inconsequential. There's something rather ironic in the fact that more choices lead to less freedom on the devs' part to craft a story along traditional paths.

 

 

Sorry I only read a little bit of this thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned... I really agree with you there in terms of what effects the existence of choices have on future games where devs end up being limited. Having said that though, players had the choice to kill off Leliana in DAO and here she is in DAI as a nearly central character. (Okay that may be an exaggeration. But she's got a HUGE freaking role.)

 

If they could do that with Leliana, why not just take the plunge and do something similar with the OGB, which could potentially be more interesting than a hardened/softened spymaster bard. 

[Ash Wind]

I disagree. Morrigan, as a character written by Bioware, provides insane amounts of tantalizing and purposefully foreshadowing-esque lines about the child prior to the DR. Post-game, Bioware didn't wave the flag of saying "this choice will change the world!" but their character sure did.

Another instance of Save Import buyer's remorse.

In an awesomely complex game and world state, it was the climatic choice. To blame the fans for the hype is the epitome of oversimplification and gives the devs a complete and utter pass and carte blanche to neuter any choice in the series. Why care about any character or choice in a DA game again then?

 

The DR could not be huge, because it was a choice but, there is clearly built-in hype because you either choose it or decide either the PC doesn't survive the game or one of the other Wardens doesn't.

 

And yes, while we still don't know what the ultimate consequence or outcome will be, if you did it, you performed the DR 2 1/2 (if you include Awakening) games ago and still have absolutely no idea what it might have meant. If its not completely neutered, its getting a little long in the tooth. Explain it or do away with it already.

[Fast Jimmy]

But on that point we don't know the answer. We have no idea whether the existence of the OGB soul might change some part of the future plot. People's issue right now is that the baby isn't important. But that's not the same as the decision not mattering.

This is of course also different from the idea that the US could ever have been the correct choice.

It's ironic, because true default choice is US. I think it is the other way around - the OGB doesn't matter (the importance of said devoured/removed soul is, in my estimation, overshadowed by the power Flemeth or Fen'Harel wields at the end of the game) and the Warden is completely ignored and out of the picture. So the Warden may as well be dead and the OGB may as well have never existed.

That speaks more of an US canon than an OGB one.

[In Exile]

It's ironic, because true default choice is US. I think it is the other way around - the OGB doesn't matter (the importance of said devoured/removed soul is, in my estimation, overshadowed by the power Flemeth or Fen'Harel wields at the end of the game) and the Warden is completely ignored and out of the picture. So the Warden may as well be dead and the OGB may as well have never existed.

That speaks more of an US canon than an OGB one.

 

Oh, I think Bioware very much wants to write their protagonists out of the plot once they're done with them. All I mean is that, for the Warden in DA:O, it requires a lot of wonky logic and selective mistrust to see the US as the preferable choice in the circumstances. 

[Raiil]

Forcing someone to have sex with someone else against their will is rape. It doesn't morph into something else just because its a guy that is the one being forced into the situation. Had Morrigan been a man and we had to pressure a woman to sleep with him so she could get pregnant BSN would have melted down so hard its not even funny.

 

It's really not, and I'm speaking as someone who is very SJW. It's made clear from the beginning why it's happening, and if he says no it doesn't happen.

 

It's not a happy situation for any party involved since it's not something he'd do under normal circumstances, but this is an extraordinary one time deal and it's explained to him- and he can say yes or no.

 

ETA: As to the question, I think that the existence of the OGB may have a part to play later on- not necessarily plot critical, but more like potentially altering the storyline in some manner later on.

[DanteYoda]

In Witch Hunt Morrigan ends up telling that she's going to prepare her son for what is to come, that change is coming to this world etc etc

The kid was meant for great things.

Was this all scrapped in DA:I?

Yep from what i took from it, it was yet again another wasted opportunity and a waste of our time (at least story wise)

 

 

Forcing someone to have sex with someone else against their will is rape. It doesn't morph into something else just because its a guy that is the one being forced into the situation. Had Morrigan been a man and we had to pressure a woman to sleep with him so she could get pregnant BSN would have melted down so hard its not even funny.

This is... completely right.

 

 

I knew Bioware was going to sweep it under the carpet like that, and I'm glad they did. Now we can move on from that dead discussion.

You could say that about the whole trilogy to be honest, its pretty bad, plot holes abound and full of dead discussions..

[MACharlie1]

I think the OG BABY has played it's part.

It's the SOUL that's the interesting piece whose story isn't done yet....

[Brockololly]

But on that point we don't know the answer. We have no idea whether the existence of the OGB soul might change some part of the future plot. People's issue right now is that the baby isn't important. But that's not the same as the decision not mattering.
 

 

Eh, let's be realistic here. The Old God soul isn't going to be important going forward any more than any other imported consequence has any chance of being important going forward. At most it might provide some flavor dialogue or some slight variation on a scene but no meaningfully significant narrative variation.

 

BioWare has proven time and time again that they don't do much with any variable consequences/world states, especially going from game to game. At this point with AAA development, I think its just way too costly to do too much of that and BioWare has never done much of it.

 

Personally, I'm really curious how a smaller scale game like Pillars of Eternity handles importing story choices from game to game, since Obsidian has said that'll be a thing they do with any sequel to PoE.

[Aren]

 

My warden told Alistair to do it , so it was extra awkward.

 

Now there's Kieran , I feel a bit uneasy about him .Morrigan loves him very much now , but he was created for selfish reasons .His mother is willing to sacrifice herself for knowledge and power , she says he's strong and can take care of himself...he's 10 years old!

My warden and King Alistair don't seem to care about him either.

And the poor boy was forced to share his body with an Old God , it's not like Flemeth , nobody gave him a choice about it.

And non OGB Kieran acts like a normal ten years old , OGB Kieran is a different story.

So I feel like there's some consequences .

nevermind

[Farangbaa]

Isn't it obvious that Morrigan was tricked by Flemeth/Mythal?

[Precursor Meta]

Kieran can still be a badass.

[Bfler]

Kieran can still be a badass.

 

In Inquisition he seems to be a sissified mummy's boy. He, and also new Morrigan, lacks the "fire" of old DA:O Morrigan.

[Kantr]

In Inquisition he seems to be a sissified mummy's boy. He, and also new Morrigan, lacks the "fire" of old DA:O Morrigan.

It's been 10 years or more and she now has someone to care for.

 

With the OG soul he's quite a dark kid, without it he's not.

[Aren]

Oh, I think Bioware very much wants to write their protagonists out of the plot once they're done with them. All I mean is that, for the Warden in DA:O, it requires a lot of wonky logic and selective mistrust to see the US as the preferable choice in the circumstances. 

 based on the information the grey warden had at the time, there was no reason to believe that darkspawn would not hunt this reborn old god, turn him into an archdemon and start another blight. And there was also the risk that Morrigan was wrong or lying, or that something goes wrong and whatnot. And given the disastrous consequences of the blight, this risk is inacceptable. Even the most unwilling Grey Warden would see this.  

 

When Morrigan made this offer, I could only shake my head in disbelief. It's not even an option.

Edit: tbh, I find it weak that the game doesn't give us more compelling reasons to accept the ritual.

[RobRam10]

Uthermiel is safe that is all that matters.

[Aren]

Uthermiel is safe that is all that matters.

Actually I'm not certain that an Archdemon soul can be destroyed even with an US, after all for all we know this are only the assumption of the grey wardens.

The grey warden soul and the one of the archdemon can be simply banished into the fade and not destroyed as the grey wardens believe.

I believe that souls cannot be destroyed so Urthemiel is safe yes but far away from Morrigan,Flemeth and Solas claws

[In Exile]

1) The US is default too make things easier for the new players.
2)In your opinion, too me there is nothing wonky in the 3 ending that require a sacrifice they are the most pragmatic because the destiny of the Archdemon is in the players hand, while after the DR the player will lose every control into the old god faith and during DAI Morrigan and Flemeth lose the archdemon's soul as well,the soul was corrupted once and can be corrupted again so i had simply eliminate the problem when i had the chance.

To succeed with the US you have to kill the archdemon. It commands an unstoppable army of monsters who poison everything by existing near it. To be afraid of the DR you have to think that Morrigan will create something WORSE. So something that in the form of a person is MORE threatening than a dragon and an unstoppable army that has near infinite numbers. That's ridiculous.

[Shahadem]

Having kids is not necessarily a good thing. I mean, it is if you value kids, but if not, then you're essentially being forced to choose between death and fathering a child. 

 

But fathering a child is completely different from carrying a child and giving birth to a child.

 

Sure you might think about it, but a mother carries the child in her body for 9 months and then when it is being born would have faced a very high risk of dying during the child's birth or having the child die or having both die.

 

That's in part why a woman raping a man is different from a man raping a woman.

 

And why it's different pressuring Alistair to do the deed with Morrigan compared with pressuring a female character from having sex with a male character. Alistair's discomfort is over after a couple of minutes. The female character's discomfort is only beginning. And if the society places a high value on a woman remaining a virgin and only having sex when married, then there would be additional problems that simply won't be present when Alistair did Morrigan.

[Aren]

To succeed with the US you have to kill the archdemon. It commands an unstoppable army of monsters who poison everything by existing near it. To be afraid of the DR you have to think that Morrigan will create something WORSE. So something that in the form of a person is MORE threatening than a dragon and an unstoppable army that has near infinite numbers. That's ridiculous.

Again thats your opinion , to succeed with the DR you have to kill the Archdemon with a Grey warden as well otherwise the magic will not work.

As i said he was corrupted once and can be corrupted again, now is no more into Morrigan/Flemeth hands (this is not an assumption is a FACT) and it's power can be used for whatever purpose ,

[Secret Rare]

To succeed with the US you have to kill the archdemon. It commands an unstoppable army of monsters who poison everything by existing near it. To be afraid of the DR you have to think that Morrigan will create something WORSE. So something that in the form of a person is MORE threatening than a dragon and an unstoppable army that has near infinite numbers. That's ridiculous.

The first time that morrigan had proposed her ritual i had thought immediately to Flemeth, and given the fact of all the body surfing plot i had decided to allow Loghain to destroy the archdemon .

I knew that one day Flemeth would come back to take the soul or the child for herself and because of this i had decided to destroy the archdemon soul.

since for the whole campaign the two witches have been very cryptics and mysterious towards their true purposes, i simply had decided to make my decision based on Morrigan actions during the DAO  (since Flemeth is completly absent for the major part of the game) and well they were costantly a delusion, the behaviour of someone who are interested in power without a goal,  at least for me.

[Il Divo]

To succeed with the US you have to kill the archdemon. It commands an unstoppable army of monsters who poison everything by existing near it. To be afraid of the DR you have to think that Morrigan will create something WORSE. So something that in the form of a person is MORE threatening than a dragon and an unstoppable army that has near infinite numbers. That's ridiculous.

 

I do the Dark Ritual almost every play through, but I do think that how much the player trusts Morrigan and/or Flemeth is pretty key here. The problem is mainly that Morrigan doesn't indicate that her goal is just to create the OGB and leave it at that (far as I remember). It sounds like the OGB was some stepping stone to some grander stage that might very well be more dangerous than a conventional army tearing across Ferelden, regardless of how dangerous the Darkspawn are. 

 

That's the key: the player/character doesn't have enough insight into those plans to say what sort of magic Morrigan and Flemeth are capable of. 

[Patchwork]

What's interesting is that DA2 and DAI offer no choice like US or DR- Hawke is railroaded in the DLCs, Anders always blows up the Chantry and the Inquisitor always defeats Cory in the same way.  

 

You can't even question Solas about his obvious shadiness because Fen'Harel is being saved for a future revelation (probably). 

[Han Shot First]

The curse of determinant status.