Also, when do you play usually Magical Master? I have time usually during the day or afternoon GMT+1 timezone. If you want someone to hunt with, send me a message.
I can probably play for a bit in the early evening which is about 3-4 more hours for me.
(Writing a response to everything else too, just throwing that out there first)
1. As for the goblin scalps those quests are not ment to be completed in one run. This being a RP server some quests take a little longer time to complete.
I suppose my question is this: what are you trying to teach players?
You load into the world, go through the intro stuff. You find a woman who asks you to kill a rat. You go and kill the rat and complete the quest. Done.
Then the woman asks you get her a flute. You deliver the flute and complete the quest. Done.
Then you go help a guy with some skeletons. You go into the cave and kill some skeletons for rings. Done.
Then you go kill a wererat guy for the skinner. Done.
Then you get a fungus for the herb guy. Done.
Then you get another fungus for the herb guy's construct. Done.
Then you go clear out all of the Low Forest goblins for a bounty. Not done. Then you clear them out again. Not done. Then you clear them out again. Maybe done at this point.
One of these things is not like the others!
I mean, you could easily have made a bounty quest that went "Prove you are an excellent bounty hunter by collecting 20 Low Forest goblin scalps, 20 High Forest goblin scalps, 20 Fogbeast eyes, 20 of another thing, and finally 20 more of a final thing" and had each mob drop one quest item each. That would have taken much longer and spanned a bunch of levels compared to the other quests...but you're still not repeating the same "dungeon" multiple times to do *one* quest.
Magical Misiles - and most other damage spells - are indeed upgraded. And yes since you moved through 2 seperate level encounter zones and into various "3. ranking" areas you did indeed encounter mobs of levels overpowering for a level 5-6 character.
I'm not sure you understand my concern here.
1, the description for MM seems wrong on the site. I was not getting hit for 1d6 + 1 if I was taking 9 damage on some missiles.
2, MM seems awfully powerful in general -- it is literally flat out better than ILMS now. ILMS is 1d4 + 1 per level, cap of 10 as a level 4 spell. MM is 1d6 + 1 per level, cap of 20 as a level 1 spell. Something's not right.
3, if I'm a level 12 rogue, I literally have about 96 HP (6 per level plus 2 extra from Con). I would STILL get one-shot by those goblin mages if both launch Magic Missile at me since I'd take about 100 damage in a second or two.
People always restart in the OOC area when logging back into the game. This has to do with the balance of rest restriction, spellreset when loggin into server, and some areas being "none sleep".
Is there a way to teleport to party members, then? I mean, if Icywind and I spend 20 minutes traveling to some far off dungeon and then spend another 45 minutes working our way through it and then my internet flickers...saying that I need to start all over is kind of awful. If I could teleport back to him would be less of an issue but that would be open to abuse too (port to inn, rest, teleport back).
In the upgraded dialog of "Jorgen the skinner" - the quest NPC for the normal sewer - he specifically tells you how to get to the sewers. He also warns you of magical missiles - that you will encounter here for the first time if you follow the new and improved player dialog guidelines - and tells you how to counter them...
I suppose I can make a second character to try to find out? Like I said, when I went to talk to him after the changes he simply immediately gave me credit for finishing the quest that I never did.
HDid you throw away the magical robe tobias gave you ? if not you should be quite able to get over the gorge...
( just the same i see you mention a possible dead-end-error and i shall emidiatly see to it that tobias checks players for the robe and gives them the option of a getting a new one if they do not. )
I think he took the rope back when I turned in the quest originally? I haven't thrown away any quest items but I don't believe I have that rope anymore.
8.The boys dialog, the wizards dialog and the actual placement of the wizard is changed. You now meet the wizard in the Harbor district, where he will tell you to take the boat and also gives you hint about how to activate a teleportring on the new continent for future use from the "Heroes Rest" inn. - The intire cave entrance is now unnessecary and no dialogs hints to it.
You may want to change something about the cave, then, like block off that section or something. Otherwise someone explore can easily stumble onto it and always wonder what it's for (answer: nothing).
Overall what you describe as alot of backtracking is quite similar to normal life. We get a "mission" and we return when it is done. Then we either get a new one or we move on. Rarely are we aware of the future and thus the intire A > B > C > D philosphy oftern turns into A > C > D > B or whatever. Bare in mind that while we have spend alot of time trying to insure that players continuously have quests to embarge on this is not a strategic hackNslach module and as such everything is not always streamlined, nor is it intended to be.
I'm not sure I'm expressing myself clearly here. My problem is not A > B > C > D turning into A > C > D > B. That's perfectly fine. Go out of "order," mix things up, etc.
My problem is A > B > C > D turning into A > B > A > B > C > B > A > B > C > D > C > B > A. If A is the town, B is the low forest, C is the high forest, and D is the fog beasts...then at that point I've theoretically had to fight through the Low Forest goblins five different times! I mean, I feel I might as well just run past stuff, there's literally no point to me actually fighting them if I'm at the point where I'm fighting the fog beasts. It's just annoying.
It just seems that, for example, you could put the entrance to the High Forest closer to the entrance of the Low Forest goblin section so that if you're going to the High Forest you could skip most if not all of the Low Forest goblins (but if you wanted to fight all of the Low Forest goblins then you could still do so).
I highly recommend buying a rod of the ghost or two at the magic shop. That will stop those pesky magic missiles dead in their tracks!
That's what I thought about trying to find, it just seems a bit off that a level 1 spell is more than three times as dangerous as a Fireball, y'know? Plus no save or elemental resistance for MM.
I agree, this server is def more of a RP server than an action server, but there is action to be had for sure. It's just a bit slow, especially if one is alone.
I'm honestly not even sure what that really means, though. I mean, the idea of "grind the goblins for an hour or two (and clear the entire area multiple times) to complete a quest" seems it would come straight out of an action server where it's mostly just about killing lots of stuff. I'd expect an RP server to have more focus on story, quests, and exploration rather than just killing lots of stuff again and again and again.
I mean, when World of Warcraft has more focus on story/lore than most RP servers in NWN, that's kind of a sad state of affairs. Hell, most RP servers will literally just give you a list (if you're lucky) of level-relevant zones to go grind mobs at (just like action servers).
Hi again MagicalMaster 
Well i guess we keep on working and you keep on objecting to way Things are and hopefully at one point Things will actually reach a level that is bound to be outstanding, hehe 
Let me try to answer your "points of interest".
1As for the first comment you are correct in observing that something changes in the way the quests work - and thank the gods for that. What awoke my interest/horror with that lineup was the "sad truth" that so many of the starter quests are indeed the same structurally so when something finally changed i did not see it as a bad thing. To me it merely demonstrates that our questline needs more diversity and refinement. So albeit your point seemed to me to be the opposite your observations have shown me the pressing need for more complex stories - questwise that is. We are infact working on that these days, also at lower levels so there is hope ahead. Many of the storylines back then was either based upon custombooks in the library ( which are still there mind you ) or DM interacted. Your observations only serves to show us that we need more diversity in the questlines and stories voven into them rather than kept in books or for DM interaction.
2.
Your concerns with magical missile really is overrated. Spells are tougher around here but there are also Means to protect yourself against them. And magical missile, impowered as it is, is NOT as powerfull as Isacs, or other highlevel spells...
I did read up on your "looking for server" thread when i saw you linked to it earlier and i recall you clearly stated you wanted lots of endgame content. Well we have endgame content where to normal mobs have HPs in the thousands and bosses have HPs, regen, immunities and temporary HP boosts you mightl find overwhelming. To this end you will need powerfull magics and weaponry and "Alangara - New Dawn" provides just that.
As a level 12 rogue you will have options to create your own magical custom gear via our magical forge system or have bought/found prefabricated customgear that will make sure you have more than 96 HP, and that those same magical missiles could not harm you so much - not to mention items with spell resistance might make some of them not hurt you at all. Furthermore our World holds severel quests granting permanent statbonusses. Some fixed fx +1 to all, and others choseable.
3.
Moving through lowlevel mobs you no longer needs can be avoided in severel ways.
A: Our buildin teleport system gives you the option to travel to various locations which will also help you join up faster with your friends or recover from a LD.
B: Running invisible through the zones is fast and easy in all lowlevel areas.
C: Reborns ( endgame special "Alangara - New Dawn" content ) actually have the power to summon friends and Allies ( party ) to themselves amongst other of their special powers.
This being said there might be more options worth making available so we will be looking into this to see if we can spice up Things abit and make the server even more enjoyable in this particular field...
4.
The cave is purposely left there for future content - 'nuf said on that subject
It should however be duely noted that there are severel "Loose ends" around the Inner Realms and without going into any details we have purposely hinted at things the players at this time might not be able to figure out. Perhaps a certain item will open up options, perhaps a certain level, perhaps a currently unknown to the player quest needs be done etc etc and finally some thing might indeed just be openings for future content, or waiting for DM interaction. Please keep in mind that this World ran for years and is based upon years of inspiration from PNP campaigns. Many Things are not giving themselves up at first glance and the Inner Realms holds many a mystery.
5.
As for the final remark about WoW and RP content i think severel Things should be considered here.
A: WoW is a multibilion franchise with written books, and 100s of fulltime professionals working content 24/7. So if and when a private, noneprofit and free World, such as "Alangara - New Dawn" is to be compared with that i find it reasonable to admit that more than likely WoW have more RP stories written Down.
B: Most RP PWs are not merely a question of prefabricated content but rather an interaction between players, DMs and the inviroment of the serversetting itself. As such RP is also dependant of the participation and input of the players. In fact I find from years of DMing PNP and NWN1 that players ( often unvolountary admitably ) delievers the material for the roleplay.
As such the content of an RP PW is more than its scripted quests and books and other sources of "static information".
To finalize my reply this time i would like to emphasize the following.
In "Alangara - New Dawn" levelling up will require some "mindless grinding" of monsters and Thus some repitition. The "get 20 drops" is a way to give some final purpose to stay in a given area, and also a "time to move on signal" when that given quest is done.
Sometimes some areas for some reason or another become prefered hunting grounds for severel levels but all in all these "gatherer quests" and the fact that there are many different zones with quests of this type, encourages one to explore the world. Also since its an RP server we dont like people to get to level 40 "in two weeks" - there are other types of servers for that need. In "Alangara - New Dawn" we infact like to see that people have fought hard and won accordingly. Fighting monsters is not only for XP but also to aquire funds for gear improvements, being it custom created by yourself in the magical forge, or bought in shops. Or perhaps to buy yourself a house, land or install magical teleports to make sure you can get to your prefered huntingspots easier...Some things takes lots of work but if one falls in love with the setting its worth it.
And as always we are working to improve, renew, diversify and upgrade. So we accept and encourage constructive critisism, agreing on it or not. Thanks for taking the time MagicalMaster
/ The "Alangara - New Dawn" staff
MM: I think I agree with Tarashon about the RP aspect of the game. All the best RP servers I've been on were good because of the players, not because there was some underlying storyline. If I want to follow a line of quests guiding me in one set direction, I will play a single player mod. PW's were designed to create a fantasy-inspired place for people to create the kind of characters they wanted to, and ''live out'' the adventures they would like to, all within the confines of whatever theme the server is of. That's what I mean when I say there is adventure to be had. The world is designed for multiple players, sharing (or fighting over) a world where they can basically be whoever they want to. The solo adventure is slow, because it is basically only ''go here, kill x'' but when you have other people to share the story (who are they? why are they here? what is the conflict?) That is when the world really comes alive. That being said, not many people are trying new worlds these days, so new servers are very empty. So when it's just one player, there are only two options: hack n slash or explore. Both get boring fast alone.
Also what time zone are you in? I will try to find you in game, or you can send me a PM here when you plan on playing and I will come online if I can.
GMT - 6. Will probably be on in 4-5 hours. Respond more later, don't have time at the moment.
Hello everyone, I recently bought this game on GOG.com and was looking for some interesting multiplayer servers to play on. This one caught my eye quite nicely, excited to try it out. Anyone else in here new to the game and would like to quest together?
Hello everyone, I recently bought this game on GOG.com and was looking for some interesting multiplayer servers to play on. This one caught my eye quite nicely, excited to try it out. Anyone else in here new to the game and would like to quest together?
Well, I'm not new to the game but I'd be happy to play with you. That said, I would also strongly recommend you do some of the campaigns so you understand how the game works before entering a persistent world that assumes you know certain things. Many of them can be done in multiplayer as well and I would be glad to do them with you and answer any questions if you're interested.
On that subject...
The original NWN campaign is okay, decent but not great. It will take you from 1 to 17 or so in about 30-40 hours, multiplayer friendly.
Shadow of Undrentide is quite good, will take you from 1 to 13 or so in about 10-15 hours, multiplayer friendly.
Hordes of the Underdark is excellent, continues the story of SoU, will take you from 15 to 27 or so in about 15-20 hours, and is multiplayer friendly.
But there are also many amazing custom campaigns, quite a few of which are even better than HotU or other professionally produced games. One of the ones I'd recommend you play initially is the Aielund Saga by Savant. It's a very good "balanced" campaign -- interesting but not insane combat, story with a good chunk of actions, and excellent companions. It can also be done in multiplayer. It'll take you from 1 to 36 or so in about 25-35 hours. Incidentally, I'm working on a tweaking of the Saga to fix some minor issues and improve a section or two...so you could wait a month or two for that. Or play it twice! Other excellent campaigns include (and I'm sure others may mention their favorites as well) Swordflight (pretty difficult combat, though), Hex Coda (different atmosphere and very story focused, little combat)), A Dance With Rogues (meant for rogue types, very sexually explicit, must play female character), and Sanctum of the Archmage (good mix of everything).
If you haven't, you should also install the 1.69 critical rebuild.
Now, back to Alangara...
Like I said, I'd be happy to play with you, I'll probably be around most of tonight. Don't see anyone online at the moment, though. I also convinced two friends to try it out who haven't played NWN in a long time, if they're around the three of us will be making new characters and playing together. You'd be welcome to join us if you'd like (we will be talking on Mumble, though, a voice chat program so if you want to join us you might want to set that up or you'd miss out on a lot). Tentative plan is one guy playing a sorcerer, another playing a cleric, and myself playing a strength based rogue/fighter hybrid. So you could reasonably play any character type as we have the "bases" covered already.
Wouldn't mind playing another character either, already have a sorcerer and (future) weapon master as well who are level 5 and 6 respectively, if I recall correctly.
Sounds like Icywind may be playing as well but not sure what he'd be playing.
Going to respond to Icywind/Tarashon in a second post
Wow thanks for this insightful post Magical. Would love to play either one of the original campaigns or a custom module with you. Are there any custom campaigns that you haven't played that you would be interested in cooping? You're right that I should start there instead of one of these persistent worlds, would make the whole process a lot smoother.
On that note do you happen to have a steam account, would make communication much easier.
Thanks again!
Wound up catching Tarashon in-game and had an excellent discussion with him about a lot of stuff.
Are there any custom campaigns that you haven't played that you would be interested in cooping? You're right that I should start there instead of one of these persistent worlds, would make the whole process a lot smoother.
None of the custom campaigns which I haven't played yet but are on my list (aka, there are enough out there that I'm sure there's more campaigns I'd like that I haven't found yet) would be multiplayer friendly, sadly. One of the three official ones or Aielund would be recommendation to start -- most of the other multiplayer campaigns I've played have been mostly story heavy and thus wouldn't teach you very much about the basic NWN mechanics.
Note that you don't have to wait until you finish an entire campaign to start on a PW, but should probably at least learn the basics.
On that note do you happen to have a steam account, would make communication much easier.
Add Balkoth, I'll be the one who's been playing Civ V and Left 4 Dead 2 a lot lately. Also own Mass Effect (2), Dragon Age, Half Life (2), Team Fortress 2, etc. Hopefully it should be clear which is the right one based on that.
Alrighty pretty sure I sent the friend request to the right Balkoth, my steam name is the same as on here.
MM: I think I agree with Tarashon about the RP aspect of the game. All the best RP servers I've been on were good because of the players, not because there was some underlying storyline. If I want to follow a line of quests guiding me in one set direction, I will play a single player mod.
While that's true, the point is that an underlying storyline is more immersive and conducive to RP than "K, go kill the level 1 bandits in that zone. Now go kill those level 3 bandits in the next zone. Then there's a cave of level 5 bandits. Then a zone of level 7 bandits. And then level 9 bandits. Why are there so many bandits? Eh, just kill stuff and level, you're 25% of the way to 40 already."
That being said, not many people are trying new worlds these days, so new servers are very empty. So when it's just one player, there are only two options: hack n slash or explore. Both get boring fast alone.
That's actually not the case for me. Exploring a world while hack'n'slashing my way through monsters on the way is fun for me as long as the zones are interesting and the monsters are engaging. Some of my most memorable times on PWs were just me exploring by myself seeing what I could manage to find and successfully beat.
I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea, though.
To me it merely demonstrates that our questline needs more diversity and refinement. So albeit your point seemed to me to be the opposite your observations have shown me the pressing need for more complex stories - questwise that is
I would agree. But would you agree that "Kill the goblins not just once, not twice, but three times" is not a more complex story? Yes, the starting quests, at least, are simplistic. But if you're going to alter that formula, do so in a way that makes it better, not worse! Doing the exact same thing several more times is not story related.
2.Your concerns with magical missile really is overrated. Spells are tougher around here but there are also Means to protect yourself against them. And magical missile, impowered as it is, is NOT as powerfull as Isacs, or other highlevel spells...
It is more powerful than Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm, a level 4 spell. And Maximized will do at least 180 damage at level 20, possibly more. A Firebrand (one spell level higher) only does 105 damage for a single target (though it can AoE) but can be evaded, reflex saved, or more easily resisted/immunitied.
Maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, given that in our conversation in-game you indicated people will have an insane amount of spell slots, but for a while, at least, it's going to be a very spammed spell.
B: Running invisible through the zones is fast and easy in all lowlevel areas.
Nearly every (all?) RP server I've seen doesn't want people to do that and I've seen some threaten to ban people over it. Due it not being "proper" RP or consuming server resources.
You're fine with it, though?
Perhaps a certain item will open up options, perhaps a certain level, perhaps a currently unknown to the player quest needs be done etc etc and finally some thing might indeed just be openings for future content, or waiting for DM interaction. Please keep in mind that this World ran for years and is based upon years of inspiration from PNP campaigns. Many Things are not giving themselves up at first glance and the Inner Realms holds many a mystery.
Well, here's the problem, for example. I killed the wererat mage in the sewers and got the key that opened the locked door near the beginning of that level. It looked like a passage into the sewers so I could do the quest for the guy from the Roaring Dragon, but there's a wall of light or something that's pushing me back and won't let me pass -- similar to the cave portal.
So at this point I'm scratching my head:
1, is there another sewer entrance I'm supposed to find?
2, is there a hidden door or something I need to find?
3, is this the right place but it's "bugged" like the portal?
4, is this the right place but *I* completely missed something along the line?
And I don't know the answer to this. For all I know that's cut/future content and I'm completely on the wrong track.
@MagicalMaster: I actually do like hack n slash mods very much, but again this really isn't one of them. Hack n Slash to me is purely about killing baddies. This place has atmosphere. While I agree that having an underlying storyline is great for RP, it's also completely unnecessary. How the player interacts with the environment is where real RP happens. It's hardly RP to play along with a series of quests, inputting a pre-selected series of answers. That's just playing a game. You have no control over your character or choices. I don't consider that RP. I guess we can disagree on that point. Also, I'm not really sure how you're running into all these problems. I didn't encounter most of them. I agree that a lot of things could have been more clear and details added, but it's being updated. Consider it a work in progress. I will try to meet you in game, but I think our time zones are conflicting.
@TheLastWarden: I never started with the OC. My first NWN experience was with a PW. I don't know what you should do, but if playing a PW is what you want, than start with it if you'd like. Now for mods, I really didn't enjoy the OC at all. I loved SoU and HoTU wasn't bad, but frustrating that there were things left undone in it. I would recommend Mines of Twin Summit for a higher level experience instead of SoU. I've played through the Aielund Saga a few times now, but I guess I have an older buggy version, because some quests just don't work, and I need to use DM commands to complete it. I would say that if you wanted to try Alangara, just download CEP 2.6 (it's linked above) and give it a try. Starting on a PW won't ruin you for offline mods at all.
I've played through the Aielund Saga a few times now, but I guess I have an older buggy version, because some quests just don't work, and I need to use DM commands to complete it.
You definitely have/had a really, really old version then. None of the versions I've played or tested for Savant ever required DM commands to complete it. Nor have I ever heard of anyone needing DM commands to complete it before you said that just now.
Heading to sleep, respond to the rest later.
Hack n Slash to me is purely about killing baddies. This place has atmosphere.
Perhaps we define the term differently but as I understand the term Hack'n'Slash is referring to combat as opposed to story element or puzzle elements (which may include things like locks and traps). It has nothing to do with atmosphere or lack thereof -- can have a very atmospheric hack'n'slash module or a very boring and dull one.
It's hardly RP to play along with a series of quests, inputting a pre-selected series of answers. That's just playing a game. You have no control over your character or choices. I don't consider that RP. I guess we can disagree on that point.
Would you say the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series don't have RP, then? Inputting a pre-selected series of answers.
I mean, I do get that those games have a far larger number of choices than the quests in Alangara and what you choose affects the world state (unlike in Alangara or other PWs)...but it's still lacking direct control.
Also, I'm not really sure how you're running into all these problems. I didn't encounter most of them.
Beats me!
I will try to meet you in game, but I think our time zones are conflicting.
Except on the weekends most likely, I think. If I get on at 5 PM my time it's midnight for you.
I loved SoU and HoTU wasn't bad, but frustrating that there were things left undone in it.
What are you referring to here?
I would recommend Mines of Twin Summit for a higher level experience instead of SoU.
That's a fairly good multiplayer campaign, but you aren't recommending he START with that, right?
Starting on a PW won't ruin you for offline mods at all.
My concern is the other way around, in a sense. Thinking back through the PWs I've played on, trying to start on at least 75%+ of them would have been completely miserable (both RP and Action servers) since they assume a competency and understanding of the game that you would lack as a brand new player.
In all fairness, Alangara would be far more reasonable than most to start new on but I'm not sure I'd still recommend it.
Magical Master: I've never played Dragon Age nor Mass Effect, so I can't comment. Also, we're gonna have to agree to disagree with our definitions of role play and hack n slash (done with that topic now).
Regarding SoU, one cannot complete all three end quests (Illithids, The fallen bird people and the slaves). When you finish two of them, you are directed back to camp to fight the war.
I only posted about MTS as a replacement for SoU which you recommended.
To be honest, I think he should figure out how he wants to play on his own. Play lots of mods, or none at all. Playing mods isn't a requirement to playing a server, and while there are a lot of crappy ones out there, there are also lot's of nice ones (Alangara, the original CoN was fantastic, Soul Forge, Kharlindale Realms, Folderol (which I only stopped playing cos it got too difficult and boring to solo) Neversummer 3.5 and 4, Legion of Darkstar, etc. all of these are fantastic servers. None of them really require much more knowledge of playing than ''kill stuff, get gear, look around, and the occasional quest.'' The game pigeon holes new players into being a fighter and choosing recommend. On most servers, that really is more than enough. Beyond that, there are countless resources for new and old players alike to find out the more in depth classes. Also, so what if he dies and/or makes mistakes? There are so few perma death servers now and they're all advertised as such. In most servers, death really means nothing more than lost xp, gold and /or occasionally gear.
Lastly, I don't think we'll ever meet up in game. I don't _start_ playing games at midnight. I go to bed at midnight. (like I am now.)
Also, we're gonna have to agree to disagree with our definitions of role play and hack n slash (done with that topic now).
Hang on a second. Just to be clear, if you completed a quest in Alangara to find an artifact and then were given three options:
1, keep the artifact to use for yourself
2, gift it to a noble to make the upper class of the city like you
3, sell it and distribute the money amongst the poor
You would say that is not a role-playing choice? I'm trying to convince you of anything, I'm trying to understand how you think.
Regarding SoU, one cannot complete all three end quests (Illithids, The fallen bird people and the slaves). When you finish two of them, you are directed back to camp to fight the war.
I am...really confused here.
There are no Illithids, fallen bird people, or slaves in SoU. But there are in HotU so perhaps you meant that?
But in HotU there aren't three end quests, there's five -- also the beholders and Isle of the Maker.
And not only that, but you can in fact complete all five of them.
Neversummer 4....all of these are fantastic servers.
Say what? I just came from trying NS4 (within the past week) and it was awful.
1, playing as a Lawful Good Aasimar sorcerer I was forced to align myself with evil dragons trying to enslave the world. No other NPC faction would take me and I couldn't leave the initial zone without picking a faction.
2, I literally spent five levels doing nothing but killing rats.
3, of those rats, some would stealth and one shot a level 1 character or nearly one shot a level 2 character. And you couldn't avoid them because, like I said, they were stealthed.
4, after finishing all the rat quests, the only way for me to continue with the main questline was to go kidnap and enslave beings. No other choices.
So I would strongly disagree with your assertion that there are a lot of nice ones, I can only think of a handful that I'd potentially recommend. And the fact we have such different conclusions indicates it's not as simple as you make it out to be.
The game pigeon holes new players into being a fighter and choosing recommend.
My first character ever was a sorcerer. Not all new players are going to pick fighter, I'd even go so far as to say that the majority won't. It'll probably be the most picked class to start overall, though.
Also, so what if he dies and/or makes mistakes?
One of NWN's biggest flaws is how difficult it is to get into initially. And people trying new games don't have unlimited patience or learning desire. If you're a new player and you try this NWN thing and you just keep dying and feel like you're completely lost, well, most people will simply say "Screw this, not worth it, I'm outta here." They'll find another game to play instead.
It's not that they're lazy or something -- it's that the initial hurdle is so steep.
And maybe you're potentially thinking "Good riddance, then" or something (though I hope not) but I want to encourage new people to stick around, we have few enough people playing as it is. And it'll only get harder to get fresh blood involved in the game. If it takes giving them a helping hand to start until they're able to confidently stand on their own two feet, then I'm happy to do it as much as I can.
Lastly, I don't think we'll ever meet up in game. I don't _start_ playing games at midnight. I go to bed at midnight. (like I am now.)
Yes, hence why I mentioned the weekends specifically, because I can be online earlier on Saturday and Sunday.
Yeah I meant HoTU my bad. Replace HoTU with SoU. And I've never been able to complete them all. I get whisked away to the end battle after two-three of those sub quests.
No I don't consider those ''role play'' choices. I consider them options the game has given you. If a DM was on and playing the NPC there would be actual choices (if quality DM) where choices have consequences and matter. The only time choices like that can really be considered is in a single player mod where you are the hero of your own story (or villian), but in a PW where nothing you do actually matters, no I consider those pre-selected answers just to move you along. Now when you actually sit down and RP with others about things ''you'' did, you can use those choices as RP hooks, but that's about all they're good for (besides obvious quest rewards). For example, on an old server I used to play called Dalelands, the DM's were extremely active and it was extremely difficult to level past 10 without some huge event. When one person or group killed a boss, it stayed dead and that boss kill was forever attributed to those players. That is what I consider RP in a persistent world.
Shame that you didn't like NS4. I guess different strokes.. I enjoyed my time there (agreeing to disagree again, since we have different standards).
Also, it doesn't matter that you, specifically thought outside the box, to make a sorcerer as your first character. The fact still remains that NWN by default directs people into choosing recommend through every bit of character process. Now that won't make the ultimate character, but you will get a perfectly survive-able and in most cases, fun character that will be fine on most of the PW's I listed.
Furthermore, if a player gives up for dying, screw them. Their loss of $10 and no concern of mine. I'm not going to hand hold some one and kiss their boo boo's all better. If after shelling out money (while there are countless free carebare games out there), they decide that it's too hard to play, tough for them. NWN has a strong community to this day, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Got those two friends onto Alangara for the first time tonight with new characters. Fighter/rogue, cleric, and sorcerer as originally planned. Character creation took a while so only managed to finish the intro quests and get to level three tonight, more later. Found out that three people being on the first quest made three dire rats spawn, so hopefully that trend continues (seen some PWs where you basically have to repeat an area three times if three people are on the quest).
Lot of spelling fixes and new low level stuff added which is nice to see in general for new players. Both of them immediately started wondering why they got that "Intimate Emote" wand, though >.>
Yeah I meant HoTU my bad. Replace HoTU with SoU. And I've never been able to complete them all. I get whisked away to the end battle after two-three of those sub quests.
Technically it's supposed to only let you do three. But if you set up teleport points in, say, Drearing's Deep near the merchant and then on the Isle of the Maker, you never have to return to the city (there are like 3ish specific trigger points near the city that will continue the plot).
The only time choices like that can really be considered is in a single player mod where you are the hero of your own story (or villian), but in a PW where nothing you do actually matters, no I consider those pre-selected answers just to move you along.
Fair enough. I'd argue you COULD make those choices matter but I get your general point
Shame that you didn't like NS4. I guess different strokes.. I enjoyed my time there (agreeing to disagree again, since we have different standards).
I suppose. It's entirely possible that as a different class/faction I might have enjoyed it. The three dealbreakers for me, though, were:
1. Having to join an evil faction as a LG Aasimar.
2. Getting one shot by stealthed creatures at level 1
3. Having to enslave innocents as a LG character.
None of those problems exist on Alangara (or most PWs).
Now that won't make the ultimate character, but you will get a perfectly survive-able and in most cases, fun character that will be fine on most of the PW's I listed.
The funny thing is that's truer than you might realize. The default recommended fighter actually isn't that bad compared to an optimized pure fighter. This is in stark contrast to almost every other class where the recommend button creates something truly awful.
I'm still not sure I was so outside the box, though: I was coming straight from playing Lords of Magic and knew absolutely nothing about DnD. I just thought sorcerer sounded cool and picked it. The innocence of youth
Furthermore, if a player gives up for dying, screw them. Their loss of $10 and no concern of mine. I'm not going to hand hold some one and kiss their boo boo's all better. If after shelling out money (while there are countless free carebare games out there), they decide that it's too hard to play, tough for them. NWN has a strong community to this day, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Just to make my perspectives clear:
The main game I play is WoW. In WoW, the guild I lead is ranked in the top 0.5% of players. We have a 20 man group attempting to beat bosses on the hardest difficulty in the game. If we die *less* than 30 times on a boss (as a group, meaning thirty separate tries), we think it's a pretty easy boss. Most bosses take 50+ attempts. Some take 100+. The hardest have taken 250+ attempts.
I've never seen anything remotely as difficult as the easiest bosses we do in NWN, by way of comparison. But that's fine -- we're pretty "hardcore" in our mindset and it'd silly to think most people are like that. But you might want to keep my situation in mind when I'd advocating that we NOT immediately throw new players to the wolves. Difficulty is fine (if anything, I think Alangara is too easy to start -- but better than it be too easy than too hard initially) if you work your way up to it...but you don't want to drive people away right from the start.
Apparently we vehemently disagree on the subject, though. You might find the first part of this article interesting (the whole thing is good, though).
WoW is not a free game and is vastly different than NWN. I'm referring to the countless Anime styled mmo's and things like Runes of Magic or Aion (all of which I've tried) as the carebear games. I've only tried WoW once on a 14 day pass, where I was constantly followed around by a higher level character and repeatedly killed and than the in game equivalent of sexually assaulted. I would not recommend that game to anyone. But as far as NWN is concerned, it's not that much of a challenge. Nothing in Alangara, or some of the others I mentioned is that difficult, nor is being thrown to the wolves at lower levels, and none of it is permadeath. I don't know how you ended up where you did in NS4, but I played a true neutral druid (as I often do for my first character on new servers) and found myself in a wood full of pleasant elves, picking off goblins until I got better gear. I stand by my original statement, though -----> there's the door carebears! xD Go play Eden Eternal!
I've only tried WoW once on a 14 day pass, where I was constantly followed around by a higher level character and repeatedly killed and than the in game equivalent of sexually assaulted. I would not recommend that game to anyone.
Which means you picked to play on a PvP server (where you can be freely killed by anyone on the opposite faction once you leave the zones meant for level 1 to 20). Yeah, it's stupid. All it takes is a few "gankers" to make lowbies miserable. Some see it as a "rite of passage," I just think it's idiotic. There's a reason I play on a PvE server (where I can still PvP in Battlegrounds, Arena, or outdoor zones designated for PvP -- or even just FLAG myself for PvP in the world if I want to invite others to attack me).
I honestly find this really, really ironic. You are demonstrating the exact behavior I described -- you joined a game, didn't realize what you were getting into (in terms of PvP vs PvE servers), got repeatedly punished for it, disliked the game (due to your ignorance), and gave up on it.
If you had started NS4, another faction had taken over your faction's town, and they were repeatedly killing you over and over, would you have had the same reaction?
Nothing in Alangara, or some of the others I mentioned is that difficult, nor is being thrown to the wolves at lower levels, and none of it is permadeath.
One of the servers that immediately came to mind was World of Greyhawk. The kobolds were already somewhat nasty even if you knew what you were doing -- and if you were a brand new player to NWN...oh boy. Very good server overall (only real reason I left was the game ended once you fit 40 -- you then made a new character and started off. Did that a few times and then moved on) but I wouldn't recommend it to someone brand new to the game.
I don't know how you ended up where you did in NS4, but I played a true neutral druid (as I often do for my first character on new servers) and found myself in a wood full of pleasant elves, picking off goblins until I got better gear.
I played a Lawful Good Sorcerer (and Aasimar to boot). Which meant the only faction that would take me was the evil dragon faction. It's literally as simple as that, which is pretty awful design.
So I got to kill rats and then would have been forced to enslave creatures if I wanted to continue.
Interesting debate folks, allthough i believe it might fit better in other threads, eh ?
I would like to comment on a few things I find relevant for "Alangara - New Dawn" though.
The initiate difficulty level is indeed rather easy. Perhaps even to a point where some more hardcore players will think "hell no" this server is no challenge and no fun. Well all I can say is that this PW is designed with a difficulty level in various endgame zones that will chew-you-up and spit-you-out if you try that on your own. Even as a level 40 Reborn with 1500+ hp and various resists/immunties.
However this is very intentionally making sure that new players or more gametechnically relaxed players can enjoy their beginning in "Alangara - New Dawn". In fact I would make the prosumptious claim that severel new players will likely find the game more interesting if they started out in "Alangara - New Dawn" than the Official Campaign. This due to the fact that graphically we offer an extremely more pleasant world, and you might get some other players to come along and guide you or give you company. Finally we are rather relaxed and if some new player realise at level 10-15 whatever, that their characterbuild simply "stinks" they just might get a rebuild offer from "their local neighboorhood DM". This dont happen in singleplayer mode, unless you know enough about the game to use a character-editor. Also we do not think this makes us "a bad RP server", but rather flexible and friendly. After all the players ability to gametechnically tweak their characters with insain class/feat/skill combinations - on precisely the right level mind you -has absolutely nothing to do with roleplay. So we cater to those players that actually enjoys the game, challanges and roleplay without spending their time on "powerbuilds", while at the same time offering endgame content that will make the "tweak-powerbuild-masters" still need friends to help them and challenge them over and over again if they try to test out their skills alone.
---
Besides the starter quest, all quests must be done individually, allthough all needed bosses ( except worldbosses ) respawns but with a longer respawn than the generel encounter-respawn-time ( 10 min ). This was done intentionally for RP reasons, in that people will need to talk together to gather hunting parties for aid, unless they can do whatever themselves, in which case it is not a problem. Again some things will be repeated in a PW server, or atleast "Alangara - New Dawn", unlike a single player module... I CAN see the idea of making some quest "party completeable" but on the other hand I believe that basically all lowlevel quests - that involves fighting - are in areas where sidequests needs various drops. Thus helping each other finishing the given boss a couple of time simoultaneously also gathers needed drops for other quests, so the time is not "wasted".
Regards.
/ The "Alangara - New Dawn" staff.
No, MM I picked a game and was harassed by other players. In game death does not harass the player, it is part of the game, if you choose the wrong choice. I would leave NWN if, after dying I kept getting res'd by the DM or another Player only to be killed over and over again. If you can't see the difference than I can't help you. Regarding NS4, we're driving this thread off topic. You should register with their site and give them your feedback.
I also wouldn't know a thing about greyhawk, sorry I didn't play there so I can't comment. None of the servers I mentioned (as I said before) are perma death ones. All HCR and permadeath servers are marked as such.
And I'm done with the thread here now, in regards to non Alangara stuff. I'm sorry it got out of hand, Tara.
The initiate difficulty level is indeed rather easy. Perhaps even to a point where some more hardcore players will think "hell no" this server is no challenge and no fun. Well all I can say is that this PW is designed with a difficulty level in various endgame zones that will chew-you-up and spit-you-out if you try that on your own. Even as a level 40 Reborn with 1500+ hp and various resists/immunties.
Yes, I had an unexpected run-in with some "Anoy Trolls" at level 11 -- and those trolls apparently had over 80 AB and hit me for over 100 damage per swing. Didn't end well.
Incidentally, what is it that would stop you from soloing stuff? I mean, you realistically have a few ways to force a party:
1, limited healing. This could be either a limiting the raw amount of healing available (cleric running out of spells, people running out of potions, etc) or limiting the power of healing (so that even with indefinite potions you can't keep up with the incoming damage indefinitely).
2, overwhelming the player. This could be enemies growing stronger over time, spawning creatures continuously so that a solo player simply can't win in time, stacking an unremovable debuff on the player, etc.
3, regenerating enemies. Could make it so that you simply can't kill enemies solo because they regenerate fast enough to require 2 or more players.
Those would be the main things I'm thinking of off-hand aside from specific scripted things (like a boss that uses an attack the players need to split the damage of between them or something).
I CAN see the idea of making some quest "party completeable" but on the other hand I believe that basically all lowlevel quests - that involves fighting - are in areas where sidequests needs various drops. Thus helping each other finishing the given boss a couple of time simoultaneously also gathers needed drops for other quests, so the time is not "wasted".
Fungi quests (two of them)?
Level 6 goblin quest?
Level 11 tax collector quest?
I'm trying to think of quests that DO meet that criteria and the only one I'm coming up with is the skinner one for the wererats because you can turn in the wererat drops for the bounty. Every other quest I've found so far either doesn't involve combat (like the new library book one) or is itself a "side quest" involving collecting drops.
Besides the starter quest, all quests must be done individually, allthough all needed bosses ( except worldbosses ) respawns but with a longer respawn than the generel encounter-respawn-time ( 10 min ). This was done intentionally for RP reasons, in that people will need to talk together to gather hunting parties for aid, unless they can do whatever themselves, in which case it is not a problem.
How much longer is the "boss" respawn?
I mean, we'll see how those two (possibly three) friends react...but I don't think they're going to be keen on repeating the same entire area(s) three times just to do one quest. And they're not going to want to do it individually either since the whole point is to play as a group.
So I'm guessing you're going to wind up in a situation where the people who play D&D in real life and are more "old school" won't be happy *and* the people who are more "modern" (like me) won't be happy, which doesn't seem like an ideal situation.
But, like I said, we'll see how they react, guessing we'll play again as a group tonight.
No, MM I picked a game and was harassed by other players.
You're only driving home my point. You specifically choose to play on a PvP server with thousands of people where you're an open target to anyone of the opposite faction past the first few zones. Surprise, you got killed and camped. That's what happens on PvP servers, it's specifically designed that way -- people who play there claim to like the feel of constant danger. And that's why I don't like PvP servers, they usually just waste my time. But you're using your bad experience that you set yourself up for to tar and feather the other 90%+ of people on the server who don't camp lowbies along with 100% of people on PvE severs (which is also most people). And that bad experience made you quit in disgust.
I mean, if I went and posted your experience on the WoW forums, I would get a response that said
"If a player gives up for getting camped, screw them. Their loss of $15 and no concern of mine. I'm not going to hand hold some one and kiss their boo boo's all better. If after shelling out money (while there are countless free carebare games out there), they decide that it's too hard to play, tough for them. WoW PvP servers have a strong community to this day, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon."
The irony here is stunning.
I actually hope I don't meet you in game, cos I'm just gonna kill you over and over in hopes that you'll quit and go pester some other server.
And furthermore, I accidentally chose a PVP server because that's where my friends were playing. If a person buys nwn on a whim and chooses a PVP server it's due to curiosity or idiocy. If they die and give up, their loss. I didn't lose anything but time playing WoW cos I was on a free trial. You don't get a free trial on NWN, remember? Still not seeing your connection between the two. Also, you don't really know what irony is at all.
There's been a lot that's been getting improved on the server. Things getting polished up and/or altered in response to feedback, which is welcome to see.
Got three friends to start playing there as well, we've gotten to level 8 in two play sessions. I'm playing a 4 Fighter/4 Rogue with the others playing an 8 Ranger, 8 Sorcerer, and 8 Cleric. Been having a lot of fun so far and the server definitely seems to work better in at least a small group. Still generally been fun on my level 13 Weapon Master who I've been playing solo, we'll see how that turns out.
Going to also get another friend involved for another pair of characters when our schedules line up. No idea what we'll play yet!
Happy to play with anyone who's interested in checking the world out (though I live in the middle of the US so difficult to play with people in Europe except on the weekend) -- and despite the initial ease of the intro, there's plenty of challenge in the world that's available if you want to go find it. Or could play it safer and stick to easier content (rather than continuously pushing to see what new areas/quests you can take on) if you don't want the challenge. Whatever floats your boat!
Pretty server as well.
I actually hope I don't meet you in game, cos I'm just gonna kill you over and over in hopes that you'll quit and go pester some other server.
And furthermore, I accidentally chose a PVP server because that's where my friends were playing. If a person buys nwn on a whim and chooses a PVP server it's due to curiosity or idiocy. If they die and give up, their loss. I didn't lose anything but time playing WoW cos I was on a free trial. You don't get a free trial on NWN, remember? Still not seeing your connection between the two.
Continuing the discussion here, feel free to join if you want. Or don't. Whatever
Also, you don't really know what irony is at all.
It's a form of situational irony.
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