70 réponses à ce sujet

[Dumaraz]

Sometimes I wonder...

Would DA:I be in better shape DESIGN (bug-wise)/ Dev-time wise if it was developed under a tried and true, *better* RPG engine than Frostbite3...

Yes, too-little and too late but for the future maybe Bioware/EA should reach out to CDProjekt on REDengine3 if there is to be a Dragon Age 4...

I mean, its kinda sad but helpful that devs did admit their difficulty and struggle with getting Frostbite3 to work with their design ideas...

... Just a thought...

(This assumes when Witcher 3 is released its a huge success, which I believe it will be.)

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

Ugh,cry me a river  here comes another "DA should be more like Witcher" thread...such joy   who can get tired of all "Be more like Witcher" cr@p? It is such amazing topic to start again(where are all fun trolls to make some dumb thread when you need them?) 

[Realmzmaster]

Never going to happen. Bioware is owned by EA. EA owns DICE developers of the Frostbite 3 engine. EA is not going to pay another company money when it has an engine that can be used to make the different games with modification. That is not cost efficient nor a sound business strategy.

Also your suggestion would require that the team learn a new engine. They have already adapted and learn the Frostbit engine. It makes no sense to go learn another one.

[atlantico]

Sometimes I wonder...

Would DA:I be in better shape DESIGN (bug-wise)/ Dev-time wise if it was developed under a tried and true, *better* RPG engine than Frostbite3...

Yes, too-little and too late but for the future maybe Bioware/EA should reach out to CDProjekt on REDengine3 if there is to be a Dragon Age 4...

I mean, its kinda sad but helpful that devs did admit their difficulty and struggle with getting Frostbite3 to work with their design ideas...

... Just a thought...

(This assumes when Witcher 3 is released its a huge success, which I believe it will be.)

 

No, there's nothing wrong with Frostbite 3, no problems connected to the design of this game are because of the engine - it's 100% on the designers of the game.

[In Exile]

The CPDR engine is not any better than FB3 at least based on what we saw in TW2. Bioware would have to redesign the menu UI, which is actually even worse than DAI (and that is saying something).

Then you'd have to create all of the companion pathing AI. You'd have to create the character creator. CDPR got away with having clone NPCs in TW2 but Bioware wouldn't.

Maybe under the hood there would be differences even if it weren't cheaper to use FB3. But superficially I can't see how another engine would be better.

[Dumaraz]

Ugh,cry me a river  here comes another "DA should be more like Witcher" thread...such joy   who can get tired of all "Be more like Witcher" cr@p? It is such amazing topic to start again(where are all fun trolls to make some dumb thread when you need them?) 

It was an honest thought... (I didn't see the other item posted in the past, if you did, and responded before, you should just glance over this one.)

Instead... No one asked for your troll response, either.

If i remember correctly, this forum area is the place where Feedback/ Suggestions belong.

If you have nothing to respectively contribute, stop replying and browse over to another thread broski. (Its what sensible do.)

[Dumaraz]

No, there's nothing wrong with Frostbite 3, no problems connected to the design of this game are because of the engine - it's 100% on the designers of the game.

Did you help develop Dragon Age inquisition? How do you know this? 

I mean, when someone from the camp of DA:I explains in an article, they struggled to adjust, its very telling they noteable HAD issues....

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

 

Seriously.

 

Even in Inquisition, we go to Val Royeaux which is supposed to be one of the largest and most grand cities in all of Thedas. And all we see is a tiny, lifeless market square.

 

I'm guessing its Frostbite related though, since the one time Inquisition attempts at putting a bunch of NPCs in a populated area (Redcliffe) the performance goes to crap. And its not like those NPCs even had varied routines going on like in something like Skyrim or The Witcher 2.

 

Oh and feel free to search there is about 1000 of like these So no I'm not trolling dear,at least not yet.Just telling you how tired me and others in here are with all "Witcher" sh*t so anything seems better.

[Realmzmaster]

The Frostbite 3 engine is not the problem. What the developers do with said engine is the problem or solution The team as I stated would still have to learn a new engine and adapt it to fit how Dragon Age is designed. Not cost effective. The UI for Witcher 2 is worst than DAI. If the UI for Witcher 3 is anything like Witcher 2 that will be something to complain about.

[Dumaraz]

Never going to happen. Bioware is owned by EA. EA owns DICE developers of the Frostbite 3 engine. EA is not going to pay another company money when it has an engine that can be used to make the different games with modification. That is not cost efficient nor a sound business strategy.

Also your suggestion would require that the team learn a new engine. They have already adapted and learn the Frostbit engine. It makes no sense to go learn another one.

 

Indeed, they'd have to learn a new engine...

My point, is learning is a step for any designer on any new platform, but based on the article from Bioware-DEVS, frostbite3 engine was originally designed for FPS games in-mind... as they said, they had to re-design and closely work with engine devs to re-create from scratch brand-new items to fit their design in mind.

Based on what I've read of REDEngine 3, it seems like it was designed to do EXACTLY what DA:I attempted to achieve but sorta did an awful job in every aspect (some bugs in DAI are excusable, while others are just downright ridiculous.)

AI, PC controls, Decision based w/ ever changing dynamic story, open-world terrain (wide open areas without loading screens, among other things etc.

 

.... Anywayz.... We have yet to see if REDengine3 has fullfilled this promise...

[Realmzmaster]

Did you help develop Dragon Age inquisition? How do you know this? 

I mean, when someone from the camp of DA:I explains in an article, they struggled to adjust, its very telling they noteable HAD issues....

 

They would still have issues using the RedEngine because they would have to learn it. The problems would still be the same. They would still struggle learning a new engine and adapting it to fit DA.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

hallelujah it has been established for 1000 time on this forum that bugs and other problems have nothing to do with Frostbite 3 again.

[Dumaraz]

 

 

 

Oh and feel free to search there is about 1000 of like these So no I'm not trolling dear,at least not yet.Just telling you how tired me and others in here are with all "Witcher" sh*t so anything seems better.

 

 

You're introduction . "Cry me a river" is already combative and disrespectable. Go elsewhere man/ or girl, lol.

[Dumaraz]

hallelujah it has been established for 1000 time on this forum that bugs and other problems have nothing to do with Frostbite 3 again.

 

How was this established already?! Lol

Where's the evidence to support this? BIOware has not admitted to any shortcomings as of yet that I saw.

Move along man.

[Dumaraz]

They would still have issues using the RedEngine because they would have to learn it. The problems would still be the same. They would still struggle learning a new engine and adapting it to fit DA.

Learning to use tools that supposedly contains-place pieces to make design work (according to REDengine3 articles) is not the same as creating pieces from scratch to fit into an engine you IN ADDITION, need to learn how to use.

This is what I've surmised, and that's just very different.

[In Exile]

Learning to use tools that supposedly contains-place pieces to make design work (according to REDengine3 articles) is not the same as creating pieces from scratch to fit into an engine you IN ADDITION, need to learn how to use.

This is what I've surmised, and that's just very different.

You're wrong. The engine is not made for a Bioware game. Bioware would have to alter it like they did FB3 and the UE.

[Hair Serious Business]

Off-Topic(not much):

-I doubt Witcher 3 will be good to die for at least form what I saw it is still feels just like Witcher2. (Still I won't say anything until game comes and I play it then I will judge and this comes from someone who is Witcher fan).

Now back to Topic: Frostbite isn't issue in here,you can say that DA:I was their 'hocus-pocus' experiment since Forstbite 3 engine is still new so developing team is still adjusting,that is why there are little mistakes with lol

(but from what I can say redengine3 and forstbite 3 are not that different from what I saw at least).

 

How was this established already?! Lol

Where's the evidence to support this? BIOware has not admitted to any shortcomings as of yet that I saw.

Move along man.

 

I know you are new but there are really...really....really way too many threads as this one already in which where this thing has been really established over countless times.

Now I better move off from this thread because of few reasons:

1)I said what I wanted related to this topic

2)I know Cherry or Kitsune or whatever now the name is too well to know this thread will become very "happy one" with way you reply at least,so I really wish to be away from flame-war.

 

Have fun

[Winged Silver]

The only thing for me is that given all the time they spent making the Frostbite engine work for them (okay 'work' is arguable for some people, but I got lucky), I'd rather they fully utilize it, instead of either taking a step back visually or starting the process of making a new engine work for them again.

[Dumaraz]

The Frostbite 3 engine is not the problem. What the developers do with said engine is the problem or solution The team as I stated would still have to learn a new engine and adapt it to fit how Dragon Age is designed. Not cost effective. The UI for Witcher 2 is worst than DAI. If the UI for Witcher 3 is anything like Witcher 2 that will be something to complain about.

 

Initial REDengine was indeed awful for Witcher 2, and it took several years or so and several major patches/mods + help from user community to help with a slightly better version.

 

REDengine3 is new however, taking into account, those issues I'd imagine with better improvements surely.

Cost-effective may not matter as I think, if users got a better game with less flaws, (hopeful), they'd make their money back with less backlash in a perfect world =)

Of course, this is all speculation, but just saying...

[Realmzmaster]

Indeed, they'd have to learn a new engine...

My point, is learning is a step for any designer on any new platform, but based on the article from Bioware-DEVS, frostbite3 engine was originally designed for FPS games in-mind... as they said, they had to re-design and closely work with engine devs to re-create from scratch brand-new items to fit their design in mind.

Based on what I've read of REDEngine 3, it seems like it was designed to do EXACTLY what DA:I attempted to achieve but sorta did an awful job in every aspect (some bugs in DAI are excusable, while others are just downright ridiculous.)

AI, PC controls, Decision based w/ ever changing dynamic story, open-world terrain (wide open areas without loading screens, among other things etc.

 

.... Anywayz.... We have yet to see if REDengine3 has fullfilled this promise...

 

Frostbite is an engine that can be used to make different games not just FPS. The engine is flexible. It is the default engine for all of EA's games going forward except for maybe EA Sports. EA is not going to spend money on someone's else engine which means paying royalities to them. The engine was also used for Need for Speed:Rivals The engine is flexible. It boils down to how well the developer uses it.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

Someone needs to use "search bar" up there to see how many times this has been established already.To get their evidence.

(anyway time to find "none-Witcher" thread)

[Dumaraz]

You're wrong. The engine is not made for a Bioware game. Bioware would have to alter it like they did FB3 and the UE.

Lol... How am I wrong for speculation? 

FB3 is all ground-up for DA:I. REDengine3, from articles seems ground-up written for a game DA:I wanted to be.

Based on this product DA:I thus far, I'd say REDengine3 fits the bill to accomplish on paper, what DA:I attempted to achieve. 

DA:I attempted to be halfway sandbox-ish (large environment,), MMO action-based, decision based w/ a dynamic story, tactical, graphically beautiful etc etc.

It tried so hard to be everything and in my opinion, after playing it, and seeing all of these collective shortcomings, i conclude the game was TOO ambitious, and its perhaps because DEVS clearly didn't have time to accomplish perhaps what they wanted to accomplish. [Giving devs credit, screw the publisher (EA)]

I want to make clear, I don't ever fault devs, they only have so-much time before pressure comes from the top to just make sure a product is pushed out the door to make those sales.

[atlantico]

Did you help develop Dragon Age inquisition? How do you know this? 

I mean, when someone from the camp of DA:I explains in an article, they struggled to adjust, its very telling they noteable HAD issues....

Ah good question, it's because the engine is an entity which handles certain basic things, such as: graphics, physics, assets, and such technical aspects. There exist many engines similar to Frostbite, such as ID Tech, Source, Unity, Unreal, RED, etc. 

 

These are generic engines, which just serve as a foundation to build upon. Meaning, the developer doesn't have to use resources to develop a 3D physics engine. Which is basically what an "engine" is. 

 

Then one adds interface to the engine, content, UI etc. 

 

Sometimes developers are so specialized in their type of game, they decide to make their own engine which is specific for the game, e.g. Aurora, Infinity, Firaxis LORE, etc., but Frostbite is a generic engine, so it's basically a blank sheet for developers. 

 

It's only as good or bad as the developer makes it.

[Dumaraz]

Frostbite is an engine that can be used to make different games not just FPS. The engine is flexible. It is the default engine for all of EA's games going forward except for maybe EA Sports. EA is not going to spend money on someone's else engine which means paying royalities to them. The engine was also used for Need for Speed:Rivals The engine is flexible. It boils down to how well the developer uses it.

 

?

 

Gah--- I can't find the article =(

FB3's flexibility is within question... I don't think 'we' can truly debate *that* aspect unless one of us A) DEV's or Bioware DEV produces another article stating such specifics...

But its an interesting thought nonetheless; devs need *time* to make a good product, I imagine if the game was delayed for another 2-3years, maybe it would be the game they wanted it to be...perhaps not.

[Realmzmaster]

Lol... How am I wrong for speculation? 

FB3 is all ground-up for DA:I. REDengine3, from articles seems ground-up written for a game DA:I wanted to be.

Based on this product DA:I thus far, I'd say REDengine3 fits the bill to accomplish on paper, what DA:I attempted to achieve. 

DA:I attempted to be halfway sandbox-ish (large environment,), MMO action-based, decision based w/ a dynamic story, tactical, graphically beautiful etc etc.

It tried so hard to be everything and in my opinion, after playing it, and seeing all of these collective shortcomings, i conclude the game was TOO ambitious, and its perhaps because DEVS clearly didn't have time to accomplish perhaps what they wanted to accomplish. [Giving devs credit, screw the publisher (EA)]

I want to make clear, I don't ever fault devs, they only have so-much time before pressure comes from the top to just make sure a product is pushed out the door to make those sales.

 

Deevelopers never have enough time to accomplish all they want to accomplish. The engine being used will never change that. The other point is that all games have a budget. I would rather that Bioware use an in-house engine than spend part of that budget licensing a different engine and then have to pay royalities to the engine maker on each game sold. That money could be used for future development of DA games, dlc or expansions.

 

Using an engine that is already owned means not spending money to license one.