70 réponses à ce sujet

[atlantico]

How's the CDPR free-roaming camera?  How about party tactics?  Click-to-move?  Auto-attack?

 

Why do you think the engine does any of that?

 

Who has been spreading nonsense about game-engines?

[mesmerizedish]

Who has been spreading nonsense about game-engines?

The OP certainly has.

[Realmzmaster]

They did continue developing Aurora. It became Eclipse, which couldn't handle the games they wanted to make, as we saw in DAII.

 

No, the Aurora engine became the Odyssey engine which was used for KOTOR and KOTOR2. The Odyssey engine was retired in 2005. No new games were made with the Odyssey engine. The Eclipse engine was a new engine developed by Bioware for Origins. The Eclipse engine was updated to become the Lycium engine which was used for DA2. 

[In Exile]

Why do you think the engine does any of that?

Who has been spreading nonsense about game-engines?

The engine does (and doesn't) do that. People don't really use the term engine in any sensible and consistent way.

[In Exile]

No, the Aurora engine became the Odyssey engine which was used for KOTOR and KOTOR2. The Odyssey engine was retired in 2005. No new games were made with the Odyssey engine. The Eclipse engine was a new engine developed by Bioware for Origins. The Eclipse engine was updated to become the Lycium engine which was used for DA2.

They used Oddysey to make at least a vertical slice of DAO. I'm not sure if they ever planned to use it for the game proper but early Ostagar screens used it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Why do you think the engine does any of that?

 

Who has been spreading nonsense about game-engines?

People seem to think that DAI's deficiencies are attributable to the engine.

 

Why they think that, I have no idea.

[atlantico]

The engine does (and doesn't) do that. People don't really use the term engine in any sensible and consistent way.

 

Once again, you are right, I should not have been so adamant on my definition. Game engines can indeed encompass gameplay as well. Some do, some don't. 

 

AFAIK, generic engines like Frostbite 3, Unity and Unreal, don't which I was thinking of - while e.g. the Bioware engines, like Infinity and Aurora certainly do.  

[In Exile]

Once again, you are right, I should not have been so adamant on my definition. Game engines can indeed encompass gameplay as well. Some do, some don't.

AFAIK, generic engines like Frostbite 3, Unity and Unreal, don't which I was thinking of - while e.g. the Bioware engines, like Infinity and Aurora certainly do.

Yeah, you're really right when it comes to the subject of this thread more or less but I think that's part of the problem for Bioware. It's why they struggle with both UE and FB3, when they have to actually build their own tools.

[danielkx]

First of all, some of the people here may not seem to realize that literally the ONLY reason why BioWare went with FB3 engine is because EA bought DICE and is literally forcing all developers to use FB3 engine for their games now...except for maybe the ones that were already in development. The engine was not selected because of capabilities or anything like that.

 

FB3 was never designed for anything other than shooters, the foundation of the engine was designed for shooters. All other games using the engine that are different than shooters, which includes Need for Speed and DA:I, were heavily modified to fit their needs. The engine is not a generic blank slate as has been suggested, it is constantly being modified by different developers that are making different kinds of games.

 

It is understandable why someone might think the engine is generic for nearly all games because so many games from EA are now being developed using the engine, but you must remember that the main reason why so many developers under EA are using FB3 is because EA makes them use it, they do not have a choice. Now that doesn't mean the engine is garbage and that no developer would ever use it if not for being forced to.

 

The main issue with DA:I using the engine is that it required a massive amount of work to make it viable for an rpg, and because of the amount of work it required and the relative lack of experience BioWare had with the engine prior to this game, you see a ton of problems with the game that are actually a result of using the engine. Not just because the engine isn't all that great, but also because BioWare isn't as experienced with it.

 

I would guess that if BioWare was going to choose an engine they would have stayed with the DA engine and made some heavy modifications to it to bring it up to date. The game may not looks as gorgeous but it would have looked good and played better.

[Realmzmaster]

They used Oddysey to make at least a vertical slice of DAO. I'm not sure if they ever planned to use it for the game proper but early Ostagar screens used it.

 

I think you may be right because some of early graphics do not match well with the later graphics in the game. I think most of the game was done in Eclipse. Bioware was still using Odyssey in 2004 when development on Origins began because it was announced at E3 2004.

[Realmzmaster]

First of all, some of the people here may not seem to realize that literally the ONLY reason why BioWare went with FB3 engine is because EA bought DICE and is literally forcing all developers to use FB3 engine for their games now...except for maybe the ones that were already in development. The engine was not selected because of capabilities or anything like that.

 

FB3 was never designed for anything other than shooters, the foundation of the engine was designed for shooters. All other games using the engine that are different than shooters, which includes Need for Speed and DA:I, were heavily modified to fit their needs. The engine is not a generic blank slate as has been suggested, it is constantly being modified by different developers that are making different kinds of games.

 

It is understandable why someone might think the engine is generic for nearly all games because so many games from EA are now being developed using the engine, but you must remember that the main reason why so many developers under EA are using FB3 is because EA makes them use it, they do not have a choice. Now that doesn't mean the engine is garbage and that no developer would ever use it if not for being forced to.

 

The main issue with DA:I using the engine is that it required a massive amount of work to make it viable for an rpg, and because of the amount of work it required and the relative lack of experience BioWare had with the engine prior to this game, you see a ton of problems with the game that are actually a result of using the engine. Not just because the engine isn't all that great, but also because BioWare isn't as experienced with it.

 

I would guess that if BioWare was going to choose an engine they would have stayed with the DA engine and made some heavy modifications to it to bring it up to date. The game may not looks as gorgeous but it would have looked good and played better.

 

Bioware did make heavy modifications to the Eclipse engine used for Origins. It was the Lycrium engine used for DA2. Those modifications required a heavy use of third party middleware. One of the reasons Bioware never made a modkit for DA2. 

[danielkx]

Bioware did make heavy modifications to the Eclipse engine used for Origins. It was the Lycrium engine used for DA2. Those modifications required a heavy use of third party middleware. One of the reasons Bioware never made a modkit for DA2. 

The Eclipse engine was just a very heavily modified version of their prior engine, it was not built from scratch.

 

The biggest reason why they didn't make a mod kit was because of a few reasons; one being that the game itself was rushed so it would be unlikely that any time on a mod kit would be developed. Another is because DA:O was in development well before EA bought them out and they had been working on the mod tools well before that. I would guess that if EA had bought BioWare well before that then we would likely not have received a mod kit for DA:O either.

 

I highly doubt you will ever see any mod kit/tools for any BioWare game from here on out, regardless of the engine that they use.

[Dumaraz]

Every engine I have investigated has some inherent issues. The point I was making is that the engine is basically generic and can be used to make different games just like any other engine. The OP is basically asking Bioware to learn a new engine after learning the ins and outs of FB3 rather than improving on what was learned with the FB3 engine. Also paying someone to use their engine when you already have one that can used makes little business sense.

 

 

This is not entirely true...

I made 2 points, if BIOware had somehow used REDengine from the getGo, would it be a better product...

 

2nd point, if Bioware moves forward (without going into licensing, and somehow the world was a better place) they had somehow obtained access to use REDEngine, would we get a better game.

All of this hypothetical, but based on the articles that are easily obtainable 1) REDengine3 is supposedly an engine that provides support tools gear towards the game Bioware *tried* to make.

 

Also given, based on the bioware dev article, they made various mention how FB3 presented challenges and struggles being THEY SAID the engine was at heart GEARED more towards SHOOTERS/ FPS in-mind, not RPG open world mechanics housed around complicated dymanic decision-story elements. A lot of the the elements were pure customization, which obviously is a challenge on top of the fact they are dual learning HOWTO create and design their game on a new engine.

 

I say, BIOware *tried* because in my opinion, the game is a heap of mess of annoyances that i forced myself through just to complete the adventure in 168hrs.

[Dumaraz]

First of all, some of the people here may not seem to realize that literally the ONLY reason why BioWare went with FB3 engine is because EA bought DICE and is literally forcing all developers to use FB3 engine for their games now...except for maybe the ones that were already in development. The engine was not selected because of capabilities or anything like that.

 

FB3 was never designed for anything other than shooters, the foundation of the engine was designed for shooters. All other games using the engine that are different than shooters, which includes Need for Speed and DA:I, were heavily modified to fit their needs. The engine is not a generic blank slate as has been suggested, it is constantly being modified by different developers that are making different kinds of games.

 

It is understandable why someone might think the engine is generic for nearly all games because so many games from EA are now being developed using the engine, but you must remember that the main reason why so many developers under EA are using FB3 is because EA makes them use it, they do not have a choice. Now that doesn't mean the engine is garbage and that no developer would ever use it if not for being forced to.

 

The main issue with DA:I using the engine is that it required a massive amount of work to make it viable for an rpg, and because of the amount of work it required and the relative lack of experience BioWare had with the engine prior to this game, you see a ton of problems with the game that are actually a result of using the engine. Not just because the engine isn't all that great, but also because BioWare isn't as experienced with it.

 

I would guess that if BioWare was going to choose an engine they would have stayed with the DA engine and made some heavy modifications to it to bring it up to date. The game may not looks as gorgeous but it would have looked good and played better.

 

 

This... ^ , well said.

[Dumaraz]

The OP certainly has.

 

? Are you actually reading what i wrote?

[TheOgre]

The Frostbite 3 engine is not the problem. What the developers do with said engine is the problem or solution The team as I stated would still have to learn a new engine and adapt it to fit how Dragon Age is designed. Not cost effective. The UI for Witcher 2 is worst than DAI. If the UI for Witcher 3 is anything like Witcher 2 that will be something to complain about.

 

Any chances they will fix the passive increases you can take in the class trees? Seems like a lot of them are flat out broken as well as the AI.

[Dumaraz]

Any chances they will fix the passive increases you can take in the class trees? Seems like a lot of them are flat out broken as well as the AI.

Lol... i dont know... give a specific on which ones are broken, I'm curious.

These guys have soooo much work to do if they take these plentiful suggestions seriousl, they probably will never work on anything of the sort.

 

I'm only familiar with the Rogue techs, and that's specifically the Dual-Daggers and Sub trees; i didnt feel anything was necessarily broken, but more so that some skills were useless, heh.

[TheOgre]

Lol... i dont know... give a specific on which ones are broken, I'm curious.

These guys have soooo much work to do if they take these plentiful suggestions seriousl, they probably will never work on anything of the sort.

I'm only familiar with the Rogue techs, and that's specifically the Dual-Daggers and Sub trees; i didnt feel anything was necessarily broken, but more so that some skills were useless, heh.

Threat percentage increase and decrease for one. I know that the one that is working to my knowledge is the scout one but fighter and Mage aren't apparent

[Dumaraz]

Threat percentage increase and decrease for one. I know that the one that is working to my knowledge is the scout one but fighter and Mage aren't apparent

 

 

Aha... I will look into that,

 

In addition, you may wish to create a separate thread outside of this one noting passive skill (I'm afraid it will just get lost here.)

... If you want any others to chime in and hope for EA to get proper visibility on it, anywayz.

[Realmzmaster]

 

 

 

This is not entirely true...

I made 2 points, if BIOware had somehow used REDengine from the getGo, would it be a better product...

 

2nd point, if Bioware moves forward (without going into licensing, and somehow the world was a better place) they had somehow obtained access to use REDEngine, would we get a better game.

All of this hypothetical, but based on the articles that are easily obtainable 1) REDengine3 is supposedly an engine that provides support tools gear towards the game Bioware *tried* to make.

 

Also given, based on the bioware dev article, they made various mention how FB3 presented challenges and struggles being THEY SAID the engine was at heart GEARED more towards SHOOTERS/ FPS in-mind, not RPG open world mechanics housed around complicated dymanic decision-story elements. A lot of the the elements were pure customization, which obviously is a challenge on top of the fact they are dual learning HOWTO create and design their game on a new engine.

 

I say, BIOware *tried* because in my opinion, the game is a heap of mess of annoyances that i forced myself through just to complete the adventure in 168hrs.

 

 

The problem is everything you have stated are assumptions. I can also make assumptions that Bioware would have the same problems with the REDEngine that it had with the Frostbite engine. The amount of modification that Bioware needed to make a DA game would still have been the same.  

 

Also why would Bioware pick the REDEngine when it could pick Unreal Engine 3 or 4 which was used to power Mass Effect? EA already has a license to use that engine. Also the Bioware team could have then drawn of the experience of the Mass Effect team to help them learn Unreal. In fact some of the programmers may have worked on both Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

 

Therefore using either Unreal or FB3 would not cost EA extra money in licensing.

[AlexMBrennan]

hallelujah it has been established for 1000 time on this forum that bugs and other problems have nothing to do with Frostbite 3 again.

Really now? How about, say, the atrocious camera then? Any time you fight indoors the camera will helpfully show the top of my character's head and nothing else because the camera gets stuck on the roof - which, I'd guess, might be because you're using an FPS engine instead of an engine that is suitable of peeudo-isometric RPGs. Hell, it worked in Origins (ceiling would automatically be hidden when it would have gotten in the way)