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Why should my Dalish Elf make all the compromise?


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#76
CuriousArtemis

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For me playing as a male heterosexual dalish warden and/or dalish inquisitor, there is no compromise. I don't engage in any of the optional romances, because none of them are with a female elf. So my head canon for them is that Mahariel ends up with Merrill and Lavellan has some badass huntress in his clan waiting for him.

 

I think my canon that I use in the Keep for DA4 will ultimately have no canon LI because for my character both options just do not match.

 

It's so different from DA2. In DA2, you could coax the characters to accept you for you you were; you could even encourage them to try to see things your way. Merrill could smash her mirror, or Fenris could learn to accept you as a mage. Isabela could come back and admit she was wrong.

 

In DAI, it's their way or the highway. Bull brokes no compromises on what you two do in bed, Sera refuses to accept your religious beliefs and customs. Of course I haven't tried all romances, so I'm sure there are some out there that are more accepting and not insisting on changing the inquisitor in order to be with them. But when they race and gender gate, you are kind of stuck with what they give you. 

 

I'm not 100% against race and gender gating, but if they're going to do it, they should give us more... malleable... love interests. If they narrow your choices down, your choices should be more widely appealing, and not so niche-driven.



#77
Master Warder Z_

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That hot Templar back in Haven warranted at least a flirt...

#78
AresKeith

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That hot Templar back in Haven warranted at least a flirt...

 

Lysette?



#79
Master Warder Z_

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Lysette?


Yup.

#80
Nefla

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Solas doesn't make Lavellan give up anything.

 

Spoiler

But like a baby bird, they wont take her back now!



#81
CathyMe

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But like a baby bird, they wont take her back now!

That's true, but the point was that, at least this is the quizzie's choice, and Solas is perfectly ok with you keeping the valasllin



#82
AresKeith

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Yup.

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

Hopefully minor characters like her can some screen time in DLC :P



#83
Nefla

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That's true, but the point was that, at least this is the quizzie's choice, and Solas is perfectly ok with you keeping the valasllin

 

Spoiler



#84
Eliastion

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That's true, but the point was that, at least this is the quizzie's choice, and Solas is perfectly ok with you keeping the valasllin

Or at least that's what he tells her ;)

 

But frankly, how much Solas just doesn't care about culture, customs or values of elves of this age (both Dalish and city elves), it's almost amazing. I think one of the banters in Temple of Mythal sums it up the best: "don't mistake them for arbiters of true elven culture". Not elven history even, but culture... for him apparently the only "true elven culture" (and "true elves", by extension?) are the ancient people of Elvhenan...

And I highly doubt whether romance or friendship really changes anything - he obviously has little grasp on (and even less respect for) the Dalish ways, but even when the Inquisitor supposedly earns his respect ang makes him reconsider his stance, I don't remember a single instance where Solas actually asked a question about Dalish. To, you know, perhaps try and understand them just a little.

I'm pretty sure his conflict with them started from him coming up to them and saying something about as sensitive as "You guys are idiots, everything you believe in is wrong, now listem to me for I am smarter and I walk the Fade, hey, why won't you listen!?" ;)



#85
Jeremiah12LGeek

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I had no problems romancing Sera as an elf.



#86
Prince of Keys

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Spoiler

 

She's not giving up her people, though, just (potentially) the vallaslin. Not that it makes the timing much better, but still, there's a difference.



#87
CathyMe

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Spoiler

While I think that he had his reasons, I also agree that he could have skipped that crushing revelation, or at leas not do those 2 at once. I also remember reading somewhere that the writer said in an interview that Solas initially intended to reveal his identity in that scene but lost his nerve.


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#88
Poison_Berrie

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And what does that have to with I said at all?

You said it was up to interpretation, I said no, then you respond with this?

It is up to interpretation, though. 

He says but a few words about it the entire history. Enough to shake up the things that we knew, but not an actual detailed account of what happened. And certainly not a detailed account of what the ancient Tevinter Empire encountered and did.

 

One could even interpret it as him being melodramatic and bitter over the fracturing of his people and their abandonment of their way and/or gods.

I certainly don't think it is, but certainly our information about this is not enough to make out like our knowledge of this part of history is complete. Our previous information certainly wasn't complete.


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#89
Illyria

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Spoiler

 

It's more complicated than that.

 

Spoiler


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#90
Guest_Faerunner_*

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They could give us a city elf origin. It wouldn't cost them anything, it changes literally nothing since we won't even met our dalish clan. But now, op is right - playing pro-dalish makes no sense story-wise and playing as a dalish it makes no sense for them to be anything but pro-dalish. 

 

It clearly does since every character we come across comments on our vallaslin, our Dalishness, and the stories/stereotypes of Dalish they have heard.

 

Besides, considering the entire second half of the game deals with Elvhen history, lore, ruins, religion, issues within the Dales (which the Dalish better remember than city elves; whose understanding of their own history has been eroded away to near non-existence after hundreds of years of humans breathing down their necks) and meeting our long-lost Mother Goddess, I felt it was really fitting to be a Dalish.

 

I don't think trumping up and down the Exalted Plains, the Emerald Graves, Emprise du Lion, the Winter Palace in Halamshiral, the Arbor Wilds, the Temple of Mythal, meeting Abelas, encountering the Well of Sorrows, meeting Mythal, or using a stolen ancient elven artifact to defeat an ancient magister would have quite the emotional impact or personal relevance if we played a city elf. And I love city elves, don't get me wrong; if asked whether I would rather play as a Dalish or a city elf, I lean toward the latter.

 

But the Dalish have such good story reasons here.

 

BW decided for us what our character will be. And this is bs. I hate how all our responses to Solas are offensive at best, you can't even roleplay playing as an elf, you're pro-dalish and you know better, period.

 

Yours, maybe. Almost none of mine were.

 

Besides, have you actually played past Haven? It's true your first conversation with Solas about elven culture has to have a "We Dalish are awesome" response, but after that Lavellan can calm down and can take many pro-Dalish stances without being belligerent or hot-headed about it, and we can approach other elven characters as a fellow elf instead of a self-important Dalish imparting sagely wisdom on poor city elves.

 

When Solas asks if the Anchor has changed your morals or spirit, and then asks if he was mistaken about the Dalish since they raised someone with a spirit like yours, you can respond "yes." And it's not in a jerky way either. Lavellan, male and female, romanced or not, just smiles gently and says, "I don't hold the Dalish up as perfect, but we have something worth honoring. A memory of the ancient ways."

 

Whenever Sera rips into the Dalish and/or elves, the Dalish Inquisitor can be calm and patient while defending his/her culture, and merely diplomatically point out the good things we've seen / ask her couldn't there possibly be something worthwhile there?

 

When Josephine asks what was life like among the Dalish, you get several responses ranging from "I loved life among my clan," "My clan sucks, I couldn't wait to get away," or "Our lives were terrible because of humans. Boo, humans!"

 

What I like about the game is that NPC's tend to foist the "offensively xenophobic Dalish" stereotype onto the PC, and we can decide for ourselves if we want to live up to or disprove our stereotype. Just about every conversation with a companion or NPC about the Dalish yields at least three separate responses with at least one erring to the side of politeness. Even the conversations with with only one "Special" Dalish response tend to be more diplomatic. 


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#91
Vita Brevis

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It clearly does since every character we come across comments on our vallaslin, our Dalishness, and the stories/stereotypes of Dalish they have heard.

Yeah, and beside that the Inq elf interract with pretty much everyone the same way as any other Inq. 

BW clearly just wanted to throw some crap at elves and then (maybe) make it better, so we bound to play the dalish. Just to hear how stupid and narrow-minded they are now, even if we do not want to roleplay an elf that way. That's just cheap.

 

I don't think trumping up and down the Exalted Plains, the Emerald Graves, Emprise du Lion, the Winter Palace in Halamshiral, the Arbor Wilds, the Temple of Mythal, meeting Abelas, encountering the Well of Sorrows, meeting Mythal, or using a stolen ancient elven artifact to defeat an ancient magister would have quite the emotional impact or personal relevance if we played a city elf.

They're still elves. You think they won't feel anything knowing they were like Gods once and that the ancient elves still living and kicking? If you think your character is bumped by the news, any origin will do. 

I didn't care either way because my elf never felt like "my" character due to the limited responses in the dialogues regarding the elves and the history events. It's pretty meh that we can roleplay a human either way and even make an andrastian mage and he got all the options, we can openly loathe the chantry, praise it, be indiferent or loyal to the old system. But our elf can be only like "no, I know better, ya'all so f stupid". That's not roleplaying.

 

Yours, maybe. Almost none of mine were.

BS. Just BS. All of the responses while talking to Solas about the elves or elven history is sarcastic and offensive, even when the less offensive option says something like "what's your problem with the dalish" the character just throws "lol, wut are you, allergic to halla?" Like, wth? Can't they even be civil?



#92
Ahalvern

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It clearly does since every character we come across comments on our vallaslin, our Dalishness, and the stories/stereotypes of Dalish they have heard.

 

Besides, considering the entire second half of the game deals with Elvhen history, lore, ruins, religion, issues within the Dales (which the Dalish better remember than city elves; whose understanding of their own history has been eroded away to near non-existence after hundreds of years of humans breathing down their necks) and meeting our long-lost Mother Goddess, I felt it was really fitting to be a Dalish.

 

*snip*

 

When Solas asks if the Anchor has changed your morals or spirit, and then asks if he was mistaken about the Dalish since they raised someone with a spirit like yours, you can respond "yes." And it's not in a jerky way either. Lavellan, male and female, romanced or not, just smiles gently and says, "I don't hold the Dalish up as perfect, but we have something worth honoring. A memory of the ancient ways."

 

Whenever Sera rips into the Dalish and/or elves, the Dalish Inquisitor can be calm and patient while defending his/her culture, and merely diplomatically point out the good things we've seen / ask her couldn't there possibly be something worthwhile there?

 

When Josephine asks what was life like among the Dalish, you get several responses ranging from "I loved life among my clan," "My clan sucks, I couldn't wait to get away," or "Our lives were terrible because of humans. Boo, humans!"

 

What I like about the game is that NPC's tend to foist the "offensively xenophobic Dalish" stereotype onto the PC, and we can decide for ourselves if we want to live up to or disprove our stereotype. Just about every conversation with a companion or NPC about the Dalish yields at least three separate responses with at least one erring to the side of politeness. Even the conversations with with only one "Special" Dalish response tend to be more diplomatic. 

 

Agreed with all of this. Slightly off-topic but we have such level-headed pro-Dalish posters here, makes me wonder how we have so many anti-Dalish people on this board to the point of trolling. :/


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#93
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Compromise is never one sided. The goal of a compromise is to reach a middle ground that two or more parties can agree on. So, you being force to change just about everything in your life to be with anyone isn't a compromise. Be it in the real world or a video game. Also, just because it seems like she would place her family over you. Does not mean that no matter what that's how a relationship will turn out. Simply put a relationship only works if both parties are willing to do everything they can to make it work. So long as she understands that and is willing to make a relationship with you work and you are willing to do the same, a relationship between a noble woman who is the  patriarch (for lack of a better word) of her family and a Dalish Elf, is completely doable. 

 

*Though I am speaking from real world experience more than anything.   



#94
Guest_Faerunner_*

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Yeah, and beside that the Inq elf interract with pretty much everyone the same way as any other Inq. 

BW clearly just wanted to throw some crap at elves and then (maybe) make it better, so we bound to play the dalish. Just to hear how stupid and narrow-minded they are now, even if we do not want to roleplay an elf that way. That's just cheap.

 

They're still elves. You think they won't feel anything knowing they were like Gods once and that the ancient elves still living and kicking? If you think your character is bumped by the news, any origin will do. 

 

I never said the city elves wouldn't feel anything, I just think it has a greater emotional impact for Dalish since they have a greater understanding and more detailed knowledge of their own history, religion, and lore going in. Knowing what you're looking at when you enter an ancient elven ruin or meet an elven god definitely helps the "appreciation" factor.

 

Maybe next game we'll have a city elf protagonist, and I'll be very happy for it (since, believe it or not, the City Elf Origin is my favorite and canon worldstate). But for this game? I don't think the Dalish was a bad call.

 

I didn't care either way because my elf never felt like "my" character due to the limited responses in the dialogues regarding the elves and the history events. It's pretty meh that we can roleplay a human either way and even make an andrastian mage and he got all the options, we can openly loathe the chantry, praise it, be indiferent or loyal to the old system. But our elf can be only like "no, I know better, ya'all so f stupid". That's not roleplaying.

 

BS. Just BS. All of the responses while talking to Solas about the elves or elven history is sarcastic and offensive, even when the less offensive option says something like "what's your problem with the dalish" the character just throws "lol, wut are you, allergic to halla?" Like, wth? Can't they even be civil?

 

Okay, you clearly either have not played the Dalish Inquisitor at all, or have not played past five minutes upon arriving at Haven, because what you are saying completely contradicts what's actually in the game. 

 

You're clearly determined to hate and dump on the Dalish no matter what anyone says or what in-game evidence you're shown to the contrary, and I'm in no mood to get sucked into this circular argument of hate. Go fume over there.

 

Agreed with all of this. Slightly off-topic but we have such level-headed pro-Dalish posters here, makes me wonder how we have so many anti-Dalish people on this board to the point of trolling. :/

 

Yeah... the BSN has always been like this. I should have known better than to respond, because they will say what they want to say and think what they want to think no matter how much in-game evidence to the contrary you throw at them. And of course they have to flood, flame, troll, and derail to every thread that even mentions Dalish out of existence because... apparently Dalish fans are so antagonistic and closed-minded that they need to come into designated threads where we talk about an aspect of the game we love and be antagonistic and closed-minded to us to show us just how awful we are. Wow, they sure showed us!

 

Ironically, the anti-Dalish protesters act more like how they accuse the Dalish and Dalish fans of being than they seem to realize. =/


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#95
Nefla

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It's more complicated than that.

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a really good story moment but damn.


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#96
Broganisity

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Because you can't satisfy every possible character personality that a player will instill on the inquisitor.

- There are no dwarf romances.
- Half the Romances are all chantry-oriented (Cas, Josie, Ruffles, Arguably Dorian)

- Iron Bull
- Characters people want romanceable are not romanceable (HARDING! ;A; )
- No <straight/gay/bi/pan/a/etc> <race> <faction> <class> <view> that caters to my Inquisitor or your inquisitor ETC.

8484211.gif



#97
Ahalvern

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Yeah... the BSN has always been like this. I should have known better than to respond, because they will say what they want to say and think what they want to think no matter how much in-game evidence to the contrary you throw at them. And of course they have to flood, flame, troll, and derail to every thread that even mentions Dalish out of existence because... apparently Dalish fans are so antagonistic and closed-minded that they need to come into designated threads where we talk about an aspect of the game we love and be antagonistic and closed-minded to us to show us just how awful we are. Wow, they sure showed us!

 

Ironically, the anti-Dalish protesters act more like how they accuse the Dalish and Dalish fans of being than they seem to realize. =/

 

Yup yup. It makes you feel like you're talking to a brick wall and wasting your time and words. Many pro-Dalish posters are eloquently wording their opinions and in return they get nothing better than "lol, rabid elf defender, you think Dalish are perfect". Can't be helped as you said sadly. Best thing to ignore them but then it'd feel like no one is sticking up for the Dalish :/

 

It's ridiculous pro-elf people always have to be on the defensive; "Elves are not that bad really, here have some examples" and have to make excuses for their stance rather than be able to declare their support with an easy heart.

 

On topic:

 

BS. Just BS. All of the responses while talking to Solas about the elves or elven history is sarcastic and offensive, even when the less offensive option says something like "what's your problem with the dalish" the character just throws "lol, wut are you, allergic to halla?" Like, wth? Can't they even be civil?

 

Uh.. it isn't? Your first conversation with Solas when you ask him about the Dalish, you can declare you're proudly one, and naturally they bicker about what is best for the Dalish (since, if you're playing Dalish, you care deeply about your people's culture and history. Otherwise you picked the wrong race).

 

But the second dialogue option? "Ir Abelas Hahren. If the Dalish have done you a disservice, I would make that right. What course would you set for them that is better than what they know now?" Exact words if you pick the first variation. You pretty much say you're sorry and you want to make amends with him if he's been treated badly and ask for his opinion.

 

Also if you haven't noticed already, the second dialogue variation tends to be sarcastic at worst, light-hearted and playful at best. A watered down version of the DA2 dialogue without the visual icons.


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#98
Steelcan

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Yup yup. It makes you feel like you're talking to a brick wall and wasting your time and words. Many pro-Dalish posters are eloquently wording their opinions and in return they get nothing better than "lol, rabid elf defender, you think Dalish are perfect". Can't be helped as you said sadly. Best thing to ignore them but then it feels like no one is sticking up for the Dalish :/

 

It's ridiculous pro-elf people always have to be like "Elves are not that bad really, here have some examples" and have to make excuses for their stance rather than be able to declare their support with an easy heart.

 

Or the pro-Dalish supporters just block people they repeatedly disagree with

 

If I had a dime for every time I wrote a post that has supporting evidence just to be ignored as anti-elf bigotry I'd be enjoying decent meals



#99
TheJediSaint

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Don't people know that strawmen are a fire hazard?

#100
Ahalvern

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Or the pro-Dalish supporters just block people they repeatedly disagree with

 

If I had a dime for every time I wrote a post that has supporting evidence just to be ignored as anti-elf bigotry I'd be enjoying decent meals

 

Only if you're twisting facts to support a viewpoint that is essentially "All Dalish are bad. They deserved what they got and they were responsible for everything that happened to them." That is factually false.

 

But I'm tired of this. I won't block someone unless the person is blatantly rude and insulting. I may not like what they're posting, but I'll roll my eyes and move on.


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