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[themikefest]

Another thing is that the Asari Councillor (the original one, Tevos) says something like "It's unfortunate, but the sad truth is that while the Reapers are focusing on Earth it gives the rest of us time to prepare", which given the stakes and the scale of the threat seems sound. Kind of funny that the politician associated with the so-called diplomatic race is talking better tactics than Shep, the seasoned and decorated military commander who rubs shoulders with the Alliance's top admirals.

Even with the added time, the reapers still kick the asari's butt with ease.  

[Display Name Owner]

Even with the added time, the reapers still kick the asari's butt with ease.  

 

Of course, like they do with everyone. But attempting to secure their defences and organise their fleets is always smarter than launching them all at one planet, the saving of which wouldn't even be certain to benefit the galaxy as a whole. In the Turians' case, with some defences in place they were at least able to hold the Reapers off Palaven until the Krogan were brought in.

 

The way the whole war plays out also proves how foolish it would have been to counter attack the Reapers at Earth - the Reapers end up having enough power to simultaneously work over planets everywhere and defeat the combined fleets above Earth, hence the way Refusal ends with everybody dead. The Council's approach seems to at least keep the Reapers occupied in the time it takes to build the Crucible, and it's not like they're against cooperation. The Turian Councillor sets the whole thing in motion with his compromise to Shepard. I quite liked that scene because it was the first one where Valern wasn't made to look like a complete stubborn moron.

[CaIIisto]

The council were just late in getting the memo that "humans are special", otherwise they'd have dropped Palaven, Thessia, Tuchanka and the rest like a hot potato and come running like pigs to the abertoire for the inevitable slaughter....

[themikefest]

The Turian Councillor sets the whole thing in motion with his compromise to Shepard.

I know. Read the 2nd post in the thread

I quite liked that scene because it was the first one where Valern wasn't made to look like a complete stubborn moron.

Don't know anything about Valern since I've never done a playthrough with the council alive from ME1

[MisterJB]

I don't blame them but that doesn't mean I don't resent them. A lesson for future human generations.

[Display Name Owner]

I know. Read the 2nd post in the thread

 

Oh. Yeah. I wasn't trying to imply you didn't already know that though, just... rambling I guess.

 

Don't know anything about Valern since I've never done a playthrough with the council alive from ME1

 

"Ah yes, 'Reapers'". Surely you're aware of the finger quotes!?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc

 

As far as I know he's still not quite as gentlemanly as his replacement, just like the new Asari is refreshingly less graceful, but he at least comes through on this one.

[themikefest]

 

"Ah yes, 'Reapers'". Surely you're aware of the finger quotes!?

 

Yes I'm aware of the quotes. I know my femshep would throw the clown over the balcony railing if he did that in person if  my femshep were ever to save the council

[CaIIisto]

It's surprising how "pro-human" you can be in ME.

In the first game you can sacrifice the council and accelerate Humanity's place on the political landscape.

In ME2 you work with Cerberus and can literally deliver the Collector base to TIM.

In ME3 you can pick up the ball when TIM fumbles it at the end by getting himself indoctrinated, instead "assuming direct control" of the Reapers yourself and then using them to dominate the rest of the Galaxy on Humanity's behalf.

Awesome. Unlucky aliens....

[God]

My chosen race will ascend dammit!

[Han Shot First]

Even with the added time, the reapers still kick the asari's butt with ease.  

 

The Asari do end up putting up much more of a fight than the Alliance did. They manage a few tactical victories against the Reapers, while the Alliance loses every battle prior to the finale. 

[fhs33721]

The Asari do end up putting up much more of a fight than the Alliance did. They manage a few tactical victories against the Reapers, while the Alliance loses every battle prior to the finale. 

Well they lose the final battle as well one might argue. Harbinger singlehandedly slaughters most of the ground forces and the fleet gets decimated pretty badly. They ultimately only win because the Reapers, or rather the ctaclyst, surrenders to Shepard.

[shodiswe]

The Hanar also did good as long as Shepard stops that indoctrinated Hanar from sabotaging the Hanar homeworld defences. The Hanar are really defensive about their homeworld and the holy ruins on it.

Personally I just think the Hanar are busy hoarding all that Protean tech that gave them a chance to put up a fight, just like the Asari.

[CaIIisto]

Well they lose the final battle as well one might argue. Harbinger singlehandedly slaughters most of the ground forces and the fleet gets decimated pretty badly. They ultimately only win because the Reapers, or rather the ctaclyst, surrenders to Shepard.

Not sure.

The whole point of the beam run was to get someone, anyone, to the beam. Mission accomplished.

The Fleet was there to pave the way for, and protect the Crucible until it could dock. Mission accomplished.

This was the part of the sacrifice theme that I thought worked really well in the endgame. They knew that they'd sustain massive losses, but it was the only way....

Shepard reaching Space Casper, and the Crucible docking, strong-armed the brat into realising that its solution was no longer effective.

Had that not been the case then the cycle would have just continued to its inevitable end.

Hence, I'd say it was a victory in the end. Albeit an incredibly hollow one.....

[themikefest]

The Asari do end up putting up much more of a fight than the Alliance did. They manage a few tactical victories against the Reapers, while the Alliance loses every battle prior to the finale. 

How would the asari have done had the Asari and Alliance switched? Instead of  Earth being attacked in the beginning, it was Thessia being attacked.

 

Well they lose the final battle as well one might argue. Harbinger singlehandedly slaughters most of the ground forces and the fleet gets decimated pretty badly. They ultimately only win because the Reapers, or rather the ctaclyst, surrenders to Shepard.

In high ems, the fleets look to be holding their own, but for how long? In low ems, the fleets do get torn apart.

 

 Running to the beam while Harbinger fires at everything turned into a suicide mission in which no one wanted to get to cover. Ha. There you go. People wanted a suicide mission on Earth. Well. There's your suicide mission. There was no reason to destroy the destroyer. Just send a team to avoid detection to get to the beam. Remember when the reaper was firing at Shepards location? Why did Anderson head towards Shepard? That was the perfect time for him to get to the beam.

[Vortex13]

The Hanar also did good as long as Shepard stops that indoctrinated Hanar from sabotaging the Hanar homeworld defences. The Hanar are really defensive about their homeworld and the holy ruins on it.

 

 

The Hanar and Elcor home worlds actually give the Reapers a harder time then Earth did in a way. The automated defenses on Kahje give even the Reapers pause to charge the system, and the Elcor on Dekuuna are too spread out for the Reapers to target via orbital bombardment or corral for harvesting easily. For being 'weak' species their home worlds certainly put a damper on the standard Reaper invasion plans.

 

Compared to Earth, which gets curb-stomped in the first five minutes of the game.

 

 

 

Personally I just think the Hanar are busy hoarding all that Protean tech that gave them a chance to put up a fight, just like the Asari.

 

Nah. The Hanar, unlike the Asari, are actually up front about Prothean activity and technology on their planet with the rest of the galaxy. 

[Display Name Owner]

How would the asari have done had the Asari and Alliance switched? Instead of  Earth being attacked in the beginning, it was Thessia being attacked.

 

Well the Asari fleet is much bigger than the Alliance's, and their race is more widespread. So I'd imagine that if the Reapers rushed Thessia and any worlds in the way, the Asari would have more forces left behind to keep fighting than the Alliance did. Not that it would've helped in the long run without the Crucible or anything, and if they took Udina's approach of wanting to retake Thessia immediately they'd have been wiped out.

[Vortex13]

Well the Asari fleet is much bigger than the Alliance's, and their race is more widespread. So I'd imagine that if the Reapers rushed Thessia and any worlds in the way, the Asari would have more forces left behind to keep fighting than the Alliance did. Not that it would've helped in the long run without the Crucible or anything, and if they took Udina's approach of wanting to retake Thessia immediately they'd have been wiped out.

 

If the scenario had been reversed and it was the Asari asking for the galaxy to band together and save Thessia, you know the narrative would have portrayed that as a selfish and fool-hardy move on the Asari's part. 

[von uber]

The codex states that the reapers find it difficult to conquer the Asari and resort to threats of orbital bombardment to force surrender.

[Mordokai]

The codex states that the reapers find it difficult to conquer the Asari and resort to threats of orbital bombardment to force surrender.

 

That wasn't the hardest thing that hit the asari and Thessia. What was it, you asked?

 

Plot induced stupidity/incompetence.

[Fixers0]

The fall of Earth was mainly due to grand the tactical ineptness of Hackett and the other Alliance bobo's. Their defence plan goes entirely against the established doctrine. in the end all hackett manages to accomplish was losing two entire fleets (three according to the codex) and severely depleting another three. Realistically Hackett would have understand that his plan was doomed to fail and that none of the Alliance fleets would be able to hold against the Reapers for more than minute or two. 

 

Surely I do not blame the council for not rushing to Earth, I do not blame them for not supporting the Crucible project either, It sounds as preposterous to me as it sounds to them, I really don't get where Shepard's gets his/her confidance from either. 

[Linkenski]

The retake earth story makes sense at the end because the citadel is over Earth and it is needed for the crucible to work, but early on in the game there is no logic to prioritize retaking earth, because imagine we actually assembled a galactic fleet and then saved earth.

... And then what??? That wouldn't magically make the reapers disappear everywhere else in the galaxy, and its not like earth itself is any real use in retaliating them. I understand the desire to preserve all life and homeworlds, but I never understood how saving a homeworld was a means to ending the reaper invasion.

Of course the less homeworlds the reapers have conquered the better, but the emphasis put on earth is nonsensical.

[wright1978]

The retake earth story makes sense at the end because the citadel is over Earth and it is needed for the crucible to work, but early on in the game there is no logic to prioritize retaking earth, because imagine we actually assembled a galactic fleet and then saved earth.

... And then what??? That wouldn't magically make the reapers disappear everywhere else in the galaxy, and its not like earth itself is any real use in retaliating them. I understand the desire to preserve all life and homeworlds, but I never understood how saving a homeworld was a means to ending the reaper invasion.

Of course the less homeworlds the reapers have conquered the better, but the emphasis put on earth is nonsensical.

 

Agree completely. It annoyed me intensely that they force fed the earth centric stuff. Spent large parts of the game trying to find the least objectionable lines and headcanoning like mad that my Shep was just pretending to Anderson(to save him and his men's feelings) that they were coming back to earth. As you say they clearly have a plot event to make coming back to earth a priority, and it really makes me wonder if it was a writer or marketer's decision to make the whole game about 'take back earth'

[Vazgen]

Let's see. The Earth is attacked. At the time there is no information on any way to defeat the Reapers. What will a soldier want to do? Run away? For all Shepard knows, it makes no difference. He'd rather go down fighting.

Getting help for Earth is a tactically sound decision. Earth is attacked, the natural course of action is to ask help from allies. The problem is Shepard's line "the fight's here". It's pretty dumb for someone who knows what the Reapers are capable of. Perhaps it makes more sense for players starting from ME3.

Some dialogue doesn't make sense, true.

"See this devastation, Primarch?" *points at the barren landscape of Menae* "Double that for Earth"

I love Victus's response

"I appreciate the need for our fleets but I can't spare them"

[themikefest]

I blame the Alliance for locking up Shepard for 6 months. Idiots.

 

How would the game of played out if the Citadel was taken to Palaven or Thessia? How would the Turians or asari react to having a human lead the attack? Would people want a Turian or an asari leading the attack?

[Vazgen]

I blame the Alliance for locking up Shepard for 6 months. Idiots.

 

How would the game of played out if the Citadel was taken to Palaven or Thessia? How would the Turians or asari react to having a human lead the attack? Would people want a Turian or an asari leading the attack?

Now I imagine Garrus coming to Luna and telling Shepard "See this devastation, Commander? Double that for Palaven"