13 réponses à ce sujet

[matcjur]

I've read it somewhere that assassins need 25℅ crit chance. Where does this number come from and why 25? Btw I completed the game and my char only had 10℅ and abused auto-crit out of stealth.

[Molohk]

Are you sure you're not thinking about armor penetration? Assassins can use 25% armor pen to get to 100% when specced for "Gaps in the Armor" and "Ambush".

 

PS: your percentage character is broken, hah.

[actionhero112]

Assassins  (and all DW rogues really) only need 50% to crit 100% of the time with sneak attack. Building more is inefficient.  

[Molohk]

Assassins  (and all DW rogues really) only need 50% to crit 100% of the time with sneak attack. Building more is inefficient.  

 

Actually, its inefficient way before 50%. The general idea is that as your crit chance increases, the more benefit you get from crit damage. So there's a point before 50% where you're better off getting crit damage instead of crit chance. The sweet spot depends on your rotation, and the ratio of damage you do from stealth vs the damage you do from out of stealth.

 

Perhaps that's where the 25% number came from. In that case it's just a ballpark reference, and not an accurate threshold.

[snigiro]

 or you can just be like me and enjoy seeing big bold blinking numbers just about all the time 

[actionhero112]

Actually, its inefficient way before 50%. The general idea is that as your crit chance increases, the more benefit you get from crit damage. So there's a point before 50% where you're better off getting crit damage instead of crit chance. The sweet spot depends on your rotation, and the ratio of damage you do from stealth vs the damage you do from out of stealth.

 

Perhaps that's where the 25% number came from. In that case it's just a ballpark reference, and not an accurate threshold.

Not really. Let's say you have 40% crit damage to start and around 25% crit% which is 50% crit% after sneak attack.

 

With the Mighty Offense tonic you have 140% crit damage.

 

Let's say I'm trying to decide whether to build more crit damage or crit chance. 

 

I could get 18% more crit damage from 6 leather offense, or I could get 21% crit %.

 

My effective crit damage when I decide to invest in crit damage in that slot is 79 ( 158 x .5) I multiply the crit damage by .5 because we're only critting half of the time.

 

My effective crit damage when I decide to invest in crit % is 99.4 (140 x .71). Calculated the same as above.

 

Basically, because sneak attack is such an incredible steroid, it makes more sense to cap out crit % on DW rogues as you will see higher damage. 

 

I know what you're thinking. "You pulled these numbers out of thin air because they support your argument. I have much higher crit damage than 140, what about those numbers."

 

Let's say our crit damage was 300%. 

 

Investing in crit damage would give us an effective crit damage of 159. (318 x .5)

 

Investing in crit % would give us an effective crit damage of 213. (300 x .71)

 

So in short, basically on a DW rogue it's always better to max out crit% through leather offense before using it for crit damage. 

[Molohk]

So in short, basically on a DW rogue it's always better to max out crit% through leather offense before using it for crit damage. 

 

We're specifically talking about assassins, not DW in general. And you're not taking into account the "Knife in the Shadows" passive.

 

When an assassin's stealth attacks are already guaranteed crits, crit chance and sneak attack only benefit attacks done out-of-stealth, while crit damage benefits ALL abilities. A good assassin will always try to use the highest damage abilities from stealth (hidden blades?), so a large portion of total damage is already auto-crit.

 

Let's say you do 40% of your damage from stealth (now i'm pulling numbers out of a hat, but 40% seems low considering I always do hidden blades from stealth, and against packs of mobs I'm closer to 90% from stealth). That means that crit chance only affects 60% of your attacks, so it's effective benefit needs to be reduced by that factor.

 

 

[Chadwin]

Why wouldn't you try to always attack from stealth other than with Skirmisher?

[Molohk]

Exactly. Just look at a typical MoD rotation: MoD - Stealth - Hidden Blades - Flank Attack - Twin Fangs/Shadow Strike. Your only out-of-stealth attacks are seldom auto-hits while waiting for stamina, which isn't long if you're specced for Looks Like it Hurt.

[actionhero112]

Exactly. Just look at a typical MoD rotation: MoD - Stealth - Hidden Blades - Flank Attack - Twin Fangs/Shadow Strike. Your only out-of-stealth attacks are seldom auto-hits while waiting for stamina, which isn't long if you're specced for Looks Like it Hurt.

 

 

Look if you're focusing on maximizing Knife in the Shadows, and you're set on that course, don't build crit chance at all, as late game it's all about one shotting enemies to get back into stealth, and continuing that chain. Crit chance doesn't help you in that endeavor, and thus it's useless to you. 

 

I think that build's inconsistent DPS at best, especially on nightmare, but if you like it, go for it. 

[Chadwin]

Look if you're focusing on maximizing Knife in the Shadows, and you're set on that course, don't build crit chance at all, as late game it's all about one shotting enemies to get back into stealth, and continuing that chain. Crit chance doesn't help you in that endeavor, and thus it's useless to you. 

 

I think that build's inconsistent DPS at best, especially on nightmare, but if you like it, go for it. 

 

I think his strategy has higher survivability, especially if you are trying to solo nightmare.

[actionhero112]

I think his strategy has higher survivability, especially if you are trying to solo nightmare.

Soloing nightmare on a DW rogue besides the tempest.

 

Yikes. 

 

I mean, sure that sounds fun. 

[Biotic Flash Kick]

dual dagger assassin solo rogue makes nightmare cheeese 

[Molohk]

Of course, it's not the only way to play an assassin, but it is the most common, and by allowing reallocation of attributes from crit chance to crit damage, it provides huge bursts.

 

I think you're underestimating the assassin build based on stealth and auto-crits. I even find it easier to solo as assassin than tempest, just because I don't need to rely on focus abilities, its great for dragons and also great for smaller frequent bursts when killing groups of enemies.