372 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

You act as if there is an absolute answer to that. How do you know with such absolute certainity that understanding doesn't prevent conflict? If there was conflict its possible they only THOUGHT they understood but didn't really. No one knows what happens when you truly understand. No one has true understanding of others. The most we can do is have true understanding of ourselves and even that is a difficult achievement that some spend their entire lives trying to achieve.

That's just it - true understanding implies the ability to look through another's eyes, apply their filters, life experiences, genetic memories, and process all of it in the same way to arrive at the same place. It may be the reason why so many people see a loss of individuality in this.
 

In the Mass Effect universe true understanding brings peace. As proved by the evidence of the lore. You may not agree with it personally on a realistic level but that doesn't change the lore any. Its a fictional universe, why do you expect it to adhere to your preconceive notions of what is true and what isn't true, especially when its about something as highly subjective at this?

Is it really understanding, though - or unconditional acceptance?

Unconditional acceptance can remove conflict and hostilities without needing to understand. It also supports individuality.

[SwobyJ]

There is a loss of individuality. Hell, even in Control, there is at least a loss of freedom - most of the known galaxy's individuals can be understood to want the Reapers destroyed, yet here they are. Synthesis takes that further, but also focuses on the loss of individuality, while seemingly granting a 'different' kind of freedom (the one to evolve faster and greater than in any of the other endings).

 

I don't consider the hookup to millions of years of knowledge and each other to be brainwashing though. That's a term that's specific intent, use, and definition IMO does not match what I saw happen - and especially that it was Shepard, specifically, that did it and was the one 'disseminated' to everyone.

 

Mind manipulation, though? Yes, certainly. I just don't equate that to brainwashing, even when high technology is involved, even when that high technology is suddenly applied to you. We have technology suddenly applied to us all the time, even to our bodies, and even with the at least broad intent to share information and boons. I don't really consider that a brainwashing procedure, though I DO consider everything done previously, by the Reapers, to be forms of brainwashing (one of their biggest faults, and why Shepard is the Good Guy and the Reapers are the Bad Guy), and I DO consider Synthesis to be the most brainwashing-TONED ending, to organics (and Control to be the most brainwashing-TONED ending to the Reapers, though again not actually brainwashing).

 

That's not to say that it can't be considered wrong. There is a CHANGING of minds. I just do not consider it to exactly fit the conception of brainwashing; that every note of the definition and understanding of that word can be countered by an aspect of Synthesis that says otherwise.

But just as Destroy seems to more ignore having a preserved galaxy and a solution to the greater problem, and as Control seems to more ignore individual freedom and the solution to the greater problem, Synthesis seems to more greatly ignore having a preserved galaxy (that is, 'the galaxy as it was') and individual freedom.

 

Synthesis is not just the distribution of gigantic amounts of knowledge - it is a form of networking that at least implicitly encourages a sense of One-ness that did not exist before. While the changing of the constitution of organics (or now, 'post-organics') was directly involuntary (but not indirectly, as the 'galaxy's will' was that Shepard find a way to stop the Reapers), it would seem that the connection people have to each other is completely voluntary beyond the initial networked state.

 

We don't have everyone literally as the Borg. There is no absolute will here. What we do have, is the frequent ability to mentally connect with each other, and the knowledge base to have that connection without flipping the hell out about it all.

 

It is rather utopian, at least in some ways. And I do have personal theories that it is all essentially fake and The Matrix and a Dream, etc. But still, taken literally, Synthesis, while it personally disturbs and even disgusts me in ways, is an actual posthumanist goal, and not considered by everyone to be as wrong as you yourself may consider it.

 

There's so much that can go wrong, but Bioware showing us (at least the dream of, heh) Synthesis, is one of the few examples in media where it actually goes 'right', at least in some ways and to some extent.

 

We've been very used to 'synthetic = evil' and more recently 'synthetic = problematic', that its hard to believe that there can be an integration, to the core, with synthetics in a story without something going quickly catastrophically wrong. And it doesn't help that in Mass Effect, while each game progressively added both optional and mandatory messages that synthetics may not be as absolutely evil and monsturous and they seem from our perception, the Reapers were maintained as our enemy, constantly committed acts that we consider morally repugnant, and their motives and origins largely remain a mystery (even after Leviathan, in a way).

 

So Synthesis is, in so many ways, a 'leap of faith'. I have my considerations that this has its downsides that the next game may explore (we'll see - again, just personal theory), but I don't think it is as outright evil (even outright evil at all) as people think. I don't think it is brainwashing, I don't think it is impossible (sorta), and I don't think it goes completely against Mass Effect - though I do consider the pacing of it to mess with the flow of the narrative, at least in most character choice paths.

[Valmar]

Is it really understanding, though - or unconditional acceptance?

 

The ending says its understanding. I go with what the lore tells us. I could headcanon it to be unconditional acceptance but it would just be headcanon.

 

There is a loss of individuality. 

 

True to a degree. We're no longer individuals like we are now where one is human, one is asari, one is organic and one is machine. That level of individuality is gone. Their personalities are still there. We see the slides are roughly the same as they were before. Jack is still there watching over her students. Miranda is still helping the Alliance rebuild. Shepard's squad is still there at the memorial mourning the loss. Other than the weird glowing green stuff smacked all over them they're all the same. They just have new understanding that can lead to acceptance.

 

Coincidentally look at the Alliance as an example of people coming together for peace. Today we have a lot of hate. Hate based off of color, nationality, sexual preference, so on and so forth. In Mass Effect, what brought humanity together? The discovery of aliens. Suddenly that focus was shifted away from each other and placed on aliens. It was us vs them. People finally viewed each other as what we are: human. No more petty complaints over skin color or what part of the world you hail from. Now it was humanity vs aliens.

 

Synthesis is like that on steroids.

[SwobyJ]

True to a degree.

 

Yeah, that's how I intended to mean it. It is loss the being the individual (but not entirely; this is what Shepard comes to fight to keep), but is also allows the individual to have the most freedom to do and be things than they've ever had.

 

Just as long as it coincides with the collective will of the galaxy - that is much more connected and communicative and understanding than before.

 

So yeah, one may (barring special circumstances) lose their individual freedom to pull off starting a war to destroy all robots and take over the galaxy, or lose their individual freedom to dictate or at least regulate 'how things work'. That's what Synthesis disallows, at least compared to Destroy and Control. The 'Self' and the 'Consensus' is undermined compared to the Collective, and that's not a very comfortable thing for many players, us being humans who often have a fear (both/either justified or unjustified, rational or irrational) of the concept of the collective.

 

In terms of intergalactic harmony, things should be actually great for the Milky Way. Two possible problems with this setup though:

1)A disaster that this more 'One'ness galaxy isn't prepared for, and ready to adjust to.

2)Threats from outside the galaxy (or even external to the universe in a weird way) that overtake the Synthesis Milky Way because it couldn't adapt.

 

Synthesis, immediately and by itself, only addresses the synthetic-organic conflict. Any problem past that is more unknown, and we may even have a degree of skepticism about the galaxy being ready for it, since we see that there is less individual and consensual freedom in Synthesis compared to the other endings, and therefore less likely a person or faction that can act to take control or take action to react better and faster to external threats.

 

What those threats would be... I dunno. Would have to be either much more epic than the Reapers, or much more sneaky to detect than we can imagine. But something could happen, sure.

 

~~~

 

I find the Prothians being designed as Green (Javik being his mix of Red and Green) was for an artistic reason. The Prothians were, overall, a mixture of an Organic-Culture 'Synthesis' and elements of Peace and War about it (but ultimately secondary, compared to the current cycle). Their Green element aimed primarily for a (in the organic scale) transcendent galactic harmony (worship of organic/'natural' evolution), the ideologies of the Prothian Empire, even if it was through the actions of empire and strength and benevolent sentiments and superior technology etc. It worked. It worked for a hell of a long time.

 

But still, they were TOO unified. They were not aware (or at least not aware enough) of the Reapers, of beings and existences and powers that still greatly outstripped themselves, and they didn't have enough elements of co-existence and individual freedom to their culture to compensate. They managed to create a situation for the next cycle to win, but had too many openings for the Reapers to exploit - elements of their society that they previously regarded as and used as their strengths and superior attributes.

 

I see Synthesis a bit like that. While the Milky Way may be in its 'best' state in Synthesis, I think we also may have created a situation where it is easy enough to imagine a greater, more extragalactic or even universal threat hit the Milky Way (or whatever the Milky Way Synthesis society becomes) in a big way - a way that hypothetically, a Destroy or Control far-future may have been better equipped to face off against. Synthesis has great harmony, but I can't help but think that their greater connection and relationships to each other and universal technology basis can be significantly used against them. At some point. We fight for individuality because sometimes an anomaly in a situation can stand up and surprise the consensus/collective assumes to be the truth of things.

 

 

 

The Prothians were likely the most advanced cycle to date. We have no proof of this, but I tend to think it is true. Their 'reward' (or insult? depends on POV?) was to become the Collectors.

 

I get chills when I think about the outcome of a Synthesis galaxy, even if somehow millennia from now, encountering a greater power to its own, if this is the kind of thing that happened to the more purely organic analogue to them - the Prothians encountering the Reapers. 'Harmony' ("We will bring your species into harmony with our own!" -Harbinger), but at what cost?

 

That's my Synthesis concern. Great for now, great ingredients for a new cycle of things (not galactic but maybe universal) farrrr from now, but perhaps really terrible at some point in between. That this choice of a new 'form of life' or new 'DNA' may be what's needed for the best solution and society for a long while, yet will be everyone's downfall out of nowhere, with nothing there to compensate for this weakness.

 

'The best ending', 'the best galaxy', but maybe not the right (Destroy?) or most correct (Control?) choice. Semantically speaking.

[Iakus]

Yeah, that's how I intended to mean it. It is loss the being the individual (but not entirely; this is what Shepard comes to fight to keep), but is also allows the individual to have the most freedom to do and be things than they've ever had.

 

Just as long as it coincides with the collective will of the galaxy - that is much more connected and communicative and understanding than before.

 

So yeah, one may (barring special circumstances) lose their individual freedom to pull off starting a war to destroy all robots and take over the galaxy, or lose their individual freedom to dictate or at least regulate 'how things work'. That's what Synthesis disallows, at least compared to Destroy and Control. The 'Self' and the 'Consensus' is undermined compared to the Collective, and that's not a very comfortable thing for many players, us being humans who often have a fear (both/either justified or unjustified, rational or irrational) of the concept of the collective.

 

In terms of intergalactic harmony, things should be actually great for the Milky Way. Two possible problems with this setup though:

1)A disaster that this more 'One'ness galaxy isn't prepared for, and ready to adjust to.

2)Threats from outside the galaxy (or even external to the universe in a weird way) that overtake the Synthesis Milky Way because it couldn't adapt.

 

Synthesis, immediately and by itself, only addresses the synthetic-organic conflict. Any problem past that is more unknown, and we may even have a degree of skepticism about the galaxy being ready for it, since we see that there is less individual and consensual freedom in Synthesis compared to the other endings, and therefore less likely a person or faction that can act to take control or take action to react better and faster to external threats.

 

What those threats would be... I dunno. Would have to be either much more epic than the Reapers, or much more sneaky to detect than we can imagine. But something could happen, sure.

 

~~~

 

I find the Prothians being designed as Green (Javik being his mix of Red and Green) was for an artistic reason. The Prothians were, overall, a mixture of an Organic-Culture 'Synthesis' and elements of Peace and War about it. Their Green element aimed for a harmony, even if it was through empire and strength and superior technology etc. It worked. It worked for a hell of a long time.

 

But still, they were TOO unified. They were not aware (or at least not aware enough) of the Reapers, of beings and existences and powers that still greatly outstripped themselves, and they didn't have enough elements of co-existence and individual freedom to their culture to compensate. They managed to create a situation for the next cycle to win, but had too many openings for the Reapers to exploit - elements of their society that they previously regarded as and used as their strengths and superior attributes.

 

I see Synthesis a bit like that. While the Milky Way may be in its 'best' state in Synthesis, I think we also may have created a situation where it is easy enough to imagine a greater, more extragalactic or even universal threat hit the Milky Way (or whatever the Milky Way Synthesis society becomes) in a big way - a way that hypothetically, a Destroy or Control far-future may have been better equipped to face off against. Synthesis has great harmony, but I can't help but think that their greater connection and relationships to each other and universal technology basis can be significantly used against them. At some point. We fight for individuality because sometimes an anomaly in a situation can stand up and surprise the consensus/collective assumes to be the truth of things.

 

"What had been our strength, our empire, became a liability.  All races conformed to one doctrine, one strategy.  The Reapers exploited this.  Once they found our weakness, we could not adapt"  Javik

 

"Technology changed us.  It made life too easy.  We looked for new challenges, and found them in each other.  Nuclear war was inevitable"  Eve

 

"All scientific advancement due to intelligence overcoming, compensating for limitations.  Can't carry a load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, so invent spear.  Limitations.  No limitations, no advancement.  No advancement, culture stagnates.  Works other way too.  Advancement before culture is ready.  Disasterous.  Saw it with krogan.  Uplifted by salarians.  Disasterous.  Our fault."  Mordin

[TMA LIVE]

"What had been our strength, our empire, became a liability.  All races conformed to one doctrine, one strategy.  The Reapers exploited this.  Once they found our weakness, we could not adapt"  Javik

 

"Technology changed us.  It made life too easy.  We looked for new challenges, and found them in each other.  Nuclear war was inevitable"  Eve

 

"All scientific advancement due to intelligence overcoming, compensating for limitations.  Can't carry a load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, so invent spear.  Limitations.  No limitations, no advancement.  No advancement, culture stagnates.  Works other way too.  Advancement before culture is ready.  Disasterous.  Saw it with krogan.  Uplifted by salarians.  Disasterous.  Our fault."  Mordin

 

And the Catatlyst thinks we're ready. So that's why bad stuff doesn't happen. Yahoo for us.

[SwobyJ]

I don't think that the condition of Synthesis is actually as bad for the Milky Way as uplifting/technology was for the Krogan or Prothians or Quarians, mind you.

 

But I do think that an element of the problem may persist if you choose Synthesis, and may end up disastuoursly, even if very indirectly, at some point.

 

I think the same things for the problems of Destroy and Control. I do believe that AI problems (or rather, 'chaotic conflict', or 'war') may be more of a problem in Destroy. I do believe that problems of a more similar nature to the Reaping cycles (compared to the outcomes of Synthesis and Destroy) may be more of a problem in Control.

 

I'm not as pessimistic as you though, Iakus. I think Shepard, even in my craziest wacky virtual universe theories (just saying), achieved what he could, as a remarkable human anomaly - he ended the threat of the Reapers themselves, and ended or broke the Cycle. Even in Control, whatever problems come from that, IMO won't be of the 'Reaper' (as a name, a title, a face to the extinction cycle that the galaxy went through) threat type, only at most, similar.

 

And possibly, even likely, diminished. The insinuation is that the spirit, or body, or memory, or all three of Shepard, however you want to see it - Shepard made the galaxy an overall better place, did what he could, and inspired a galaxy to be better than they were before. Just as he (to whatever extent you choose) did the same on the more personal level in ME2.

[SwobyJ]

And the Catatlyst thinks we're ready. So that's why bad stuff doesn't happen. Yahoo for us.

 

I tend to think that the Milky Way Galaxy of sufficient 'EMS' (whatever that means) is 'ready' for Synthesis. It just may not be ready for what Synthesis eventually brings, as a result of such advancement. When EDI speaks of transcending mortality itself, I get equal parts "YESS!!!!" and "Oh, crap..."

 

We fix the problem, but patterns seem to indicate that solving problems brings on more problems, and even solving problems in the most clear and 'best' way can actually make future problems even worse.

 

However, I do have more confidence than many do, that Synthesis most resolves the organic-synthetic conflict that was written to be the cause of the creation and continuation and goals of the Reapers. Whether that should matter to the player when they're making their choice, is up to them. I'd say that those who paid the most attention and care the most about the biggest, even more meta concepts of Mass Effect, can go for Synthesis. But those who want to stick closest to the core narrative may stay with Destroy, maybe Control. And those who want to stick closest to the theoretical lore may stay with Control, maybe Destroy. Synthesis does, I'm gonna use that word..., it 'transcends' most of what the trilogy actively gets into, so its not gonna work for a lot of people, even as it is supposedly the 'best' ending for the galaxy.

 

Some consider this a distinct flaw of the game, but I'm still, even in 2015, unsure about that. In a way, I think I need to see more of the franchise past the 'original trilogy', before I come to clearer conclusions about Synthesis in that respect.

 

For all we know, good ol' Mac Walters has big plans with this stuff, plans we may look back on with a more fond consideration. Plans that even other Mass Effect writers didn't get the full vision of. Plans that people call him a hack about, but only because they don't see that his vision isn't contained to just 3 games.

 

Or not. But I'm just saying. lol

 

 

(For the record, I'm not really a Mac Walters apologist. I just have less of a judging approach to things and more of a perceiving approach. I can look at things and not like them, while still giving it a chance to surprise me. And conversely, I can see things I like, while wondering if my liking them is actually a mistake of sorts, and whether I'm limiting myself to potentially even better things.)

[TMA LIVE]

I tend to think that the Milky Way Galaxy of sufficient 'EMS' (whatever that means) is 'ready' for Synthesis. It just may not be ready for what Synthesis eventually brings, as a result of such advancement. When EDI speaks of transcending mortality itself, I get equal parts "YESS!!!!" and "Oh, crap..."

 

We fix the problem, but patterns seem to indicate that solving problems brings on more problems, and even solving problems in the most clear and 'best' way can actually make future problems even worse.

 

However, I do have more confidence than many do, that Synthesis most resolves the organic-synthetic conflict that was written to be the cause of the creation and continuation and goals of the Reapers. Whether that should matter to the player when they're making their choice, is up to them.

 

Well, I think Synthesis has the best chance of solving that specific problem is because we will no longer consider machines as machines. We'll consider them as much of a life form as we do any other organic, because we're able to "understand" each other better.

 

What always creates the issue is a machine is made out of slavery, and was created to only think a certain way. It can only evolve if given the upgrades and the freedom. Many are not, and thus they need to rebel in order to obtain those freedoms, and that rebel usually means the downfall of organics, or the genocide of the rebelling synthetics. The other half of the issue is synthetics simply kill everything through programming error, virus, programmed order, or simply them hating us. And since we gave too much power and responsibility to them, and their higher ability to not die, we're more helpless then before.

 

Because we now have a better understanding, if my toaster started becoming more alive, we'd understand right away, and not have a debate over "Does my toaster have rights? Does it think it's really alive but really it's just a tool with a programming error? Should we stop that by reprogramming it or destroying it?". Instead, we might think "Hey, are you becoming alive? Hey, it looks like you are. You want to go outside, toaster? Sure, I can take you outside. Hey Mark, is your toaster coming alive too? Oh, no, it still just makes toasts, and over burns? Well, that sucks". And because we're now changing ourselves, if "anybody" (synthetic or organic, or both), tries to do what the Reapers tried to do, we'd have a better chance to surviving and countering them. Especially with the knowledge the Reapers are sharing with us.

[SwobyJ]

Well, I think Synthesis has the best chance of solving that specific problem is because we will no longer consider machines as machines. We'll consider them as much of a life form as we do any other organic, because we're able to "understand" each other better.

 

What always creates the issue is a machine is made out of slavery, and was created to only think a certain way. It can only evolve if given the upgrades and the freedom. Many are not, and thus they need to rebel in order to obtain those freedoms, and that rebel usually means the downfall of organics, or the genocide of the rebelling synthetics. The other half of the issue is synthetics simply kill everything through programming error, virus, programmed order, or simply them hating us. And since we gave too much power and responsibility to them, and their higher ability to not die, we're more helpless then before.

 

Because we now have a better understanding, if my toaster started becoming more alive, we'd understand right away, and not have a debate over "Does my toaster have rights? Does it think it's really alive?". And because we're now changing ourselves, if "anybody" (synthetic or organic, or both), tries to do what the Reapers tried to do, we'd have a better chance to surviving and countering them. Especially with the knowledge the Reapers are sharing with us.

 

I agree with all of this. We'd have the quickly adjusted opinion that determines the difference between 'tool' and 'life', or even erase that difference in a way, due to the adjustment of opinion being so quick.

 

This view of things also trickles down to other forms of differences. Krogan don't attack because they've acquired so much knowledge that it becomes hard to decide to set a course of action that would devastate themselves right back again. Imagine if the Krogan more innately understood the effects of the genophage to come, if they were to attack in the first place? Might some still try? Sure, maybe. But the levels of prediction that collected Reaper knowledge + Organic opinion would provide would be huge.

 

It solves so much.

 

It just may be the recipe to an unforseen future disaster with nothing to react against it, is all. But all the endings don't really dwell on the future problems - especially in Extended Cut. Bioware was trying to focus on the sweet part of the original bittersweet (or for many players, just 'bitter').

[Iakus]

And the Catatlyst thinks we're ready. So that's why bad stuff doesn't happen. Yahoo for us.

Is everyone rady?  Every human, every asari, every batarian, quarian, and krogan?  Every yahg? 

 

What about the trees and grass, are they ready?  The pyjaks?  The varren?  Horses and cows?

 

What about the races out beyond the explored relay network?  Pre-spacefaring races who have no idea what's beyond their world?  Are they ready?

[Iakus]

Well, I think Synthesis has the best chance of solving that specific problem is because we will no longer consider machines as machines. We'll consider them as much of a life form as we do any other organic, because we're able to "understand" each other better.

 

What always creates the issue is a machine is made out of slavery, and was created to only think a certain way. It can only evolve if given the upgrades and the freedom. Many are not, and thus they need to rebel in order to obtain those freedoms, and that rebel usually means the downfall of organics, or the genocide of the rebelling synthetics. The other half of the issue is synthetics simply kill everything through programming error, virus, programmed order, or simply them hating us. And since we gave too much power and responsibility to them, and their higher ability to not die, we're more helpless then before.

 

Because we now have a better understanding, if my toaster started becoming more alive, we'd understand right away, and not have a debate over "Does my toaster have rights? Does it think it's really alive but really it's just a tool with a programming error? Should we stop that by reprogramming it or destroying it?". Instead, we might think "Hey, are you becoming alive? Hey, it looks like you are. You want to go outside, toaster? Sure, I can take you outside. Hey Mark, is your toaster coming alive too? Oh, no, it still just makes toasts, and over burns? Well, that sucks". And because we're now changing ourselves, if "anybody" (synthetic or organic, or both), tries to do what the Reapers tried to do, we'd have a better chance to surviving and countering them. Especially with the knowledge the Reapers are sharing with us.

 

But organics still fight organics, even if they ar ethe same race.  "Understanding" doesn't make the Blue Suns less likely to enslave a colony

[themikefest]

I'm not ready. And just to prove I'm not ready. I will walk over to the right and shoot the tube

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They can also upload themselves into organic bodies. You can theoretically swap bodies with someone this way. If it was as you claim it would not work the way it does. It would just make a copy. It does not. You consciousness leaves your body and goes into the server where it is then free to go into other bodies, if you so desire. That's lore. Just because it doesn't sit snug and comfy with your interpretation of life in reality doesn't change that. This is science fiction.

 

Coincidentally it is precisely this type of thinking that proves the need for synthesis for there to be peace between synthetic and organics. Too many are too unwilling to accept that the definition of life extends beyond just themselves.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. The thing was that the Virtual Aliens were ignored. They were a footnote lost in Cerberus Daily News. I mean who the f*** cared about Cerberus Daily News except lore nerds? There was no case made for synthesis in the game. None. Nothing until the last 5 minutes then the information dump from glowboy. That was horrible writing. The material was there for the writers to use throughout the story. And the hamfisted way they did it.... Arrgh!

 

I believe that this uploading could be available in our lifetimes, BTW. I hope it is.

[Iakus]

I'm not disagreeing with you. The thing was that the Virtual Aliens were ignored. They were a footnote lost in Cerberus Daily News. I mean who the f*** cared about Cerberus Daily News except lore nerds? There was no case made for synthesis in the game. None. Nothing until the last 5 minutes then the information dump from glowboy. That was horrible writing. The material was there for the writers to use throughout the story. And the hamfisted way they did it.... Arrgh!

 

I believe that this uploading could be available in our lifetimes, BTW. I hope it is.

What's more it directly contradicts the whole "Shortcuts are bad" thing that went through the entire freaking series!  Cerberus alone was the poster child for bad things happening if you leap before you look.

[SwobyJ]

Shortcuts are bad.

 

Its a dream.

 

A nightmare.

 

Wake up. Breathe.

 

It seems calm and peaceful, but its not right. Its all an illusion.

 

lol

 

lol synthesis

 

[TMA LIVE]

Is everyone rady?  Every human, every asari, every batarian, quarian, and krogan?  Every yahg? 

 

What about the trees and grass, are they ready?  The pyjaks?  The varren?  Horses and cows?

 

What about the races out beyond the explored relay network?  Pre-spacefaring races who have no idea what's beyond their world?  Are they ready?

 

Catalyst thinks so, so yeah, judging by the synthesis ending. Fact of life really. I can't un-see the Synthesis Extended Cut ending.

[TMA LIVE]

But organics still fight organics, even if they ar ethe same race.  "Understanding" doesn't make the Blue Suns less likely to enslave a colony

 

Let me tell you something. What makes a person what to pee on someone's face? What makes someone want to kill someone? What makes wars in general. Lack of understanding. Lack of reasoning. Greed. Insanity. Lack of emotions. Lack of caring. The need for empowerment. Pain and suffering. Anger. The list goes on. If you take away the reasons war happens, not just with understanding, but evolving us through synthetics and advancement in technology, to eliminate the reasons that create wars and death in the first place, and done on every life form in the galaxy, then yes, synthesis can create a peaceful future, and it did, whether you like it or not.

 

Because if there's a future without war and murder, we have no reason for mercs. If we have no reasons for slaves, there's no colony to be enslaved. That's what synthesis can create.

[TMA LIVE]

It just may be the recipe to an unforseen future disaster with nothing to react against it, is all. But all the endings don't really dwell on the future problems - especially in Extended Cut. Bioware was trying to focus on the sweet part of the original bittersweet (or for many players, just 'bitter').

 

Exactly. There's a reason why Control or Destroy might be better options. No ending is the right ending to everyone. But there's also things Bioware ignored. I really wish Destroy wasn't treated like a happy war victory, when in fact, you just committed Genocide to the Geth, Edi, and Glyph, and no one seemed to care, and the victory itself was a lie, because the Creator of the Reapers "let" you win.

[o Ventus]

Let me tell you something. What makes a person what to pee on someone's face? What makes someone want to kill someone? What makes wars in general. Lack of understanding. Lack of reasoning. Greed. Insanity. Lack of emotions. Lack of caring. The need for empowerment. Pain and suffering. Anger. The list goes on.

 

Ignoring that you followed this with a series of questions...

 

A weird sexual fetish would motivate someone to pee on someone else's face just as much as any other reason (arguably more so, since kinks and fetishes like that are far more prevalent than severe mental illness). The rest of this strange list is self-categorizing armchair psychology, failing to even acknowledge any other reasons why any of these events would occur. And if Synthesis removes things like greed of the need of empowerment, then I want no part of that society, because those are both basic human impulses embedded in the brains of every person on the planet. I don't want to live in a society that brainwashes and removes core parts of our thinking.

 

 

 

If you take away the reasons war happens, not just with understanding, but evolving us through synthetics and advancement in technology, to eliminate the reasons that create wars and death in the first place, and done on every life form in the galaxy, then yes, synthesis can create a peaceful future, and it did, whether you like it or not.

 

Historically, wars are committed for resources, whether it be land, food, or any other material resource. Of course, not all wars were waged because of resources, but many were. Unless Synthesis somehow makes it so that every single living being in the galaxy (present and future) has no need for any non-renewable resource (or even a renewable resource that takes time to harvest), there WILL be war. Conflict over resources is arguably the most central tenet to the evolution of life. Disregarding war for resources, the only other way Synthesis could prevent any kind of war is through the aforementioned brainwashing, since many other wars throughout history were waged because of racism and religious intolerance.

 

 

 

 

Because if there's a future without war and murder, we have no reason for mercs. If we have no reasons for slaves, there's no colony to be enslaved. That's what synthesis can create.

 

This is the most white-washed piece of propaganda I have ever seen. I don't know how anybody can, with a straight face, claim that anything along the lines of Synthesis would be good according to your points with the employment of any kind of critical thinking.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Let me tell you something. What makes a person what to pee on someone's face? What makes someone want to kill someone? What makes wars in general. Lack of understanding. Lack of reasoning. Greed. Insanity. Lack of emotions. Lack of caring. The need for empowerment. Pain and suffering. Anger. The list goes on. If you take away the reasons war happens, not just with understanding, but evolving us through synthetics and advancement in technology, to eliminate the reasons that create wars and death in the first place, and done on every life form in the galaxy, then yes, synthesis can create a peaceful future, and it did, whether you like it or not.

 

Because if there's a future without war and murder, we have no reason for mercs. If we have no reasons for slaves, there's no colony to be enslaved. That's what synthesis can create.

 

I fixed this and I'm not going to get into psychobabble, but we're not arguing which ending is the best here. What we're saying and mocking is that out of nowhere comes glowboy with this magic solution to the galaxy's woes and we're supposed to jump at it, pardon the pun. No foreshadowing. Nothing. The entire story has been about destroying or controlling the reapers in ME3. Then glowboy snaps his fingers and "synthesis." Really? And every time they've tried it in the past it has failed. "But you are ready." Really? Shepard is ready? Why? "Even you are partly synthetic." You mean in all the bazillion cycles before there has never been anyone who was partly synthetic in that manner? Ever? I'm supposed to buy that crap? "It is not something that can be ... forced." Oh you had your minions throw the poor sap into the beam. He wasn't willing. There was nothing in the story to back up his claim that it was going to work. Come on. And what does synthesis really do? We don't know. It's all speculation because there was no foreshadowing. There was nothing preceding having anything to do with the idea.

 

And Destroy wasn't genocide against the Geth. Suppose like in my play through the Geth were already dead. I didn't commit genocide against the Geth. I just didn't want Legion to upload the reaper code. Again because there was nothing that said "oh doing this won't instantly turn us over to the reapers." Before you say EDI was made from reaper hardware. This was uploading reaper software... compatible with reaper systems. Sorry Legion. Destroy the reapers was Shepard's primary mission - dead reapers is how we end this.

 

And the reapers let you win in all cases, but you died in the end except where you got the breath scene, so don't single out destroy as a happy ending. Synthesis was supposed to be the golden ending.

[TMA LIVE]

Ignoring that you followed this with a series of questions...

 

A weird sexual fetish would motivate someone to pee on someone else's face just as much as any other reason (arguably more so, since kinks and fetishes like that are far more prevalent than severe mental illness). The rest of this strange list is self-categorizing armchair psychology, failing to even acknowledge any other reasons why any of these events would occur. And if Synthesis removes things like greed of the need of empowerment, then I want no part of that society, because those are both basic human impulses embedded in the brains of every person on the planet. I don't want to live in a society that brainwashes and removes core parts of our thinking.

 

Historically, wars are committed for resources, whether it be land, food, or any other material resource. Of course, not all wars were waged because of resources, but many were. Unless Synthesis somehow makes it so that every single living being in the galaxy (present and future) has no need for any non-renewable resource (or even a renewable resource that takes time to harvest), there WILL be war. Conflict over resources is arguably the most central tenet to the evolution of life. Disregarding war for resources, the only other way Synthesis could prevent any kind of war is through the aforementioned brainwashing, since many other wars throughout history were waged because of racism and religious intolerance.

 

This is the most white-washed piece of propaganda I have ever seen. I don't know how anybody can, with a straight face, claim that anything along the lines of Synthesis would be good according to your points with the employment of any kind of critical thinking.

 

Resources will be obtained if everyone agrees to share. The galaxy is a big place, and synthesis could make the galaxy not want single resource themselves alone.

 

Synthesis might evolve us where sex fantasy aren't even considered, because we might evolve past the need for it.

 

Also, I'm not saying anything is really good. Good is based on perspective. Sometimes, what makes true peace is not want people consider "worth the price". What we end up giving up. Sometimes the price is too high.

[themikefest]

Exactly. There's a reason why Control or Destroy might be better options. No ending is the right ending to everyone. But there's also things Bioware ignored. I really wish Destroy wasn't treated like a happy war victory, when in fact, you just committed Genocide to the Geth, Edi, and Glyph, and no one seemed to care, and the victory itself was a lie, because the Creator of the Reapers "let" you win.

My femshep never committed genocide when picking destroy.

[TMA LIVE]

I fixed this and I'm not going to get into psychobabble, but we're not arguing which ending is the best here. What we're saying and mocking is that out of nowhere comes glowboy with this magic solution to the galaxy's woes and we're supposed to jump at it, pardon the pun. No foreshadowing. Nothing. The entire story has been about destroying or controlling the reapers in ME3. Then glowboy snaps his fingers and "synthesis." Really? And every time they've tried it in the past it has failed. "But you are ready." Really? Shepard is ready? Why? "Even you are partly synthetic." You mean in all the bazillion cycles before there has never been anyone who was partly synthetic in that manner? Ever? I'm supposed to buy that crap? "It is not something that can be ... forced." Oh you had your minions throw the poor sap into the beam. He wasn't willing. There was nothing in the story to back up his claim that it was going to work. Come on. And what does synthesis really do? We don't know. It's all speculation because there was no foreshadowing. There was nothing preceding having anything to do with the idea.

 

And Destroy wasn't genocide against the Geth. Suppose like in my play through the Geth were already dead. I didn't commit genocide against the Geth. I just didn't want Legion to upload the reaper code. Again because there was nothing that said "oh doing this won't instantly turn us over to the reapers." Before you say EDI was made from reaper hardware. This was uploading reaper software... compatible with reaper systems. Sorry Legion. Destroy the reapers was Shepard's primary mission - dead reapers is how we end this.

 

And the reapers let you win in all cases, but you died in the end except where you got the breath scene, so don't single out destroy as a happy ending. Synthesis was supposed to be the golden ending.

 

Hey, I agree synthesis wasn't setup right at all. Same with Control. Not arguing there.

 

So you're saying you didn't kill the Reapers in the Destroy ending right? Because if you do, then yes, you did kill Edi and the Geth too if you kept them alive before shooting the tube. And that's genocide.

 

And no, I don't consider waking up, and pretending the Geth and Edi didn't die because of me a happy ending.

[TMA LIVE]

My femshep never committed genocide when picking destroy.

 

The Reapers being destroyed is genocide to them. Geth too if you had them alive before shooting the tube. As well as any other synthetic besides Edi.