372 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

The Reapers being destroyed is genocide to them. Geth too if you had them alive before shooting the tube. As well as any other synthetic besides Edi.

Nope.  They can be rebuilt if the galaxy chooses

[o Ventus]

Resources will be obtained if everyone agrees to share.

 

And people, by their very nature, will not always be inclined to share, unless you change them on a fundamental level. So again, brianwashing.

 

The galaxy is a big place

 

Totally irrelevant, since populations will never grow at a fast enough rate to threaten the abundance of resources in the known galaxy. The renewable resources, anyway. It's a different story when the topic turns to things like fuel. Starships in ME use helium-3 for fuel, and h-3 is taken from specific gas giants that have h-3 in their composition or atmosphere. There are a finite amount of gas giants in known space, and even less composed of h-3.

 

 

 

and synthesis could make the galaxy not want single resource themselves alone.

 

This doesn't make any sense.

 

 

 

 

Synthesis might evolve us where sex fantasy aren't even considered, because we might evolve past the need for it.

 

There is no 'need' for sexual fantasies right now. They are a byproduct of human societal growth and hormonal changes during development. You cannot remove sexual fantasies without removing someone's sex drive entirely. So unless Synthesis makes everyone asexual (and such a radical physiological shift would be a scientific impossibility), sexual fantasies are going nowhere. Or if it chemically castrates them, but that would be cruel and inhumane.

 

 

 

Also, I'm not saying anything is really good.

 

Really? Because you spent the last several posts trying to convince me why Synthesis would be good.

[TMA LIVE]

Nope.  They can be rebuilt if the galaxy chooses

 

So what? Humans can be repopulated, but the deaths of a specific race or culture is still genocide, if not all of them. Not all Krogan are dead, and yet the word used for what happened to them in Genocide.

 

And like Legion, even if they bring him back, Geth VI is no Legion. The real Legion died in ME2 if you didn't save him.

[SwobyJ]

Exactly. There's a reason why Control or Destroy might be better options. No ending is the right ending to everyone. But there's also things Bioware ignored. I really wish Destroy wasn't treated like a happy war victory, when in fact, you just committed Genocide to the Geth, Edi, and Glyph, and no one seemed to care, and the victory itself was a lie, because the Creator of the Reapers "let" you win.

On the Destroy Side, I tend to think (BTW I word things as 'I tend to think', because my thoughts go all over the place for Mass Effect) that the Catalyst is hacked into accepting you anyway, on the minimal level. On Low EMS, it is much more clear that he is antagonistic, but must facilitate the discussion and choices anyway. Not be pleased about it, but at least do it.

 

So the more war-like you make things (and less 'harvest' or 'experiment'), the more clear things are that you're using the ending process as a tool, or weapon, and less a conversation of peers, or even the Catalyst showing you 'the way'.

[TMA LIVE]

And people, by their very nature, will not always be inclined to share, unless you change them on a fundamental level. So again, brianwashing.

 

 

 

 

Totally irrelevant, since populations will never grow at a fast enough rate to threaten the abundance of resources in the known galaxy. The renewable resources, anyway. It's a different story when the topic turns to things like fuel. Starships in ME use helium-3 for fuel, and h-3 is taken from specific gas giants that have h-3 in their composition or atmosphere. There are a finite amount of gas giants in known space, and even less composed of h-3.

 

 

 

 

This doesn't make any sense.

 

 

 

 

 

There is no 'need' for sexual fantasies right now. They are a byproduct of human societal growth and hormonal changes during development. You cannot remove sexual fantasies without removing someone's sex drive entirely. So unless Synthesis makes everyone asexual (and such a radical physiological shift would be a scientific impossibility), sexual fantasies are going nowhere. Or if it chemically castrates them, but that would be cruel and inhumane.

 

 

 

 

Really? Because you spent the last several posts trying to convince me why Synthesis would be good.

 

There's both good and bad. What you agree is good or bad I can't change.

 

Not really brainwashing. Just no reason not to work together, if all the reasons not to change. If everyone's nature is changed, either through evolution, or technology.

[themikefest]

So what? Humans can be repopulated, but the deaths of a specific race or culture is still genocide, if not all of them. Not all Krogan are dead, and yet the word used for what happened to them in Genocide.

 

And like Legion, even if they bring him back, Geth VI is no Legion. The real Legion died in ME2 if you didn't save him.

If you want to call destroying flashlights genocide, go ahead. I don't see it as genocide. 

[SwobyJ]

So what? Humans can be repopulated, but the deaths of a specific race or culture is still genocide, if not all of them. Not all Krogan are dead, and yet the word used for what happened to them in Genocide.

 

And like Legion, even if they bring him back, Geth VI is no Legion. The real Legion died in ME2 if you didn't save him.

 

Lots still don't consider the Geth or Reapers to even be alive, let alone sapients we should care about, even after all 3 games and all DLC. So we only broke some machines in Destroy.

 

I disagree with this, but this mentality will, at minimum, continue until AI becomes a mainstream technology that society frequently interacts with.

[TMA LIVE]

If you want to call destroying flashlights genocide, go ahead. I don't see it as genocide. 

 

I see it as it is, if I consider Edi alive. Whether you do or not is up to you. If you see them as just flashlights, that's your choice.

[o Ventus]

There's both good and bad. What you agree is good or bad I can't change.

 

Except what you're proposing isn't good in any way to any rational person.

 

 

 

 

Not really brainwashing. Just no reason not to work together, if all the reasons not to change.

 

Is English not your first language? I'm honestly asking because again, this isn't a fully coherent thought. There will always be some reason not to work with other people, whether it be through necessity or simply preferring solitude. Literally the only way you can change this is by forcibly altering people on a fundamental level, by changing they way the think. That is, by definition, brainwashing.

 

 

 

If everyone's nature is changed, either through evolution, or technology.

 

You might want to finish this sentence.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Nope.  They can be rebuilt if the galaxy chooses

 

You can built something that superficially looks like a Geth (or any AI) but that new species would never be them.

[SwobyJ]

People believe Shepard will do what it takes to stop the Reapers.

Shepard does what it takes to stop 'The Reapers' from ever happening again. Taking the initial 'job' Shepard was given, to its furthest interpretation.

People accept that and move on.

 

Or at least in whatever weird realm Synthesis exists, lol.

[o Ventus]

You can built something that superficially looks like a Geth (or any AI) but that new species would never be them.

 

Did the people in the galaxy just forget how to make geth (evidently they didn't, because the quarians on the Alarei were constructing geth from pieces Tali had sent to her father)? Why would any remade geth not be like the old geth?

[TMA LIVE]

Lots still don't consider the Geth or Reapers to even be alive, let alone sapients we should care about, even after all 3 games and all DLC. So we only broke some machines in Destroy.

 

I disagree with this, but this mentality will, at minimum, continue until AI becomes a mainstream technology that society frequently interacts with.

 

Which again, comes down to choices, and who you are, and what you consider right and wrong. Though the endings weren't put together correctly, I do think the ME trilogy was what Casey said: a subtle way of bring up an issue, and have the player explore what is right and wrong.

[TMA LIVE]

Did the people in the galaxy just forget how to make geth (evidently they didn't, because the quarians on the Alarei were constructing geth from pieces Tali had sent to her father)? Why would any remade geth not be like the old geth?

 

Because why rebuild the Geth the same when you can make them better? More like the tools they started out as, and without the "Am I alive?" part. I mean, I doubt the Quarians really wanted that part.

[TMA LIVE]

Except what you're proposing isn't good in any way to any rational person.

 

 

 

 

 

Is English not your first language? I'm honestly asking because again, this isn't a fully coherent thought. There will always be some reason not to work with other people, whether it be through necessity or simply preferring solitude. Literally the only way you can change this is by forcibly altering people on a fundamental level, by changing they way the think. That is, by definition, brainwashing.

 

 

 

 

You might want to finish this sentence.

 

It's not a thing you could comprehend I take it?

 

I mean, you're taking a short paragraph, breaking it into individual sentences, and saying "I don't get this sentence when put by itself".

[o Ventus]

Because why rebuild the Geth the same when you can make them better? More like the tools they started out as, and without the "Am I alive?" part. I mean, I doubt the Quarians really wanted that part.

This in no way answers or even acknowledges either my post or the person I was quoting.

[TMA LIVE]

This in no way answers or even acknowledges either my post or the person I was quoting.

 

Yes it does. You just don't get it.

[o Ventus]

It's not a thing you could comprehend I take it?

 

I mean, you're taking a short paragraph, breaking it into individual sentences, and saying "I don't get this sentence when put by itself".

The irony here, when taken in accordance with your last post, is astounding.

 

 

 

Yes it does. You just don't get it. 

 

 

Right, because when you say something that is a total non-sequitur, I must not 'get it'. There's no way what you said actually is just really incoherent, not at all.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Did the people in the galaxy just forget how to make geth (evidently they didn't, because the quarians on the Alarei were constructing geth from pieces Tali had sent to her father)? Why would any remade geth not be like the old geth?

 

Because the Geth are more than hardware. There's culture, philosophy, society, etc that was self developed over completely unique circumstances in the absence of organics. Just like how a clone of Shepard taught to be Shepard is far from the real thing, the Geth programmed to be whatever people think Geth are would never be more than shallow copies. It's an issue that goes deeper than putting physical parts together.

[TMA LIVE]

The irony here, when taken in accordance with your last post, is astounding.

Yep, you don't get it.

 

But don't worry, with the power of green energy, you will understand!

[o Ventus]

Because the Geth are more than hardware. There's culture, philosophy, society, etc that was self developed over completely unique circumstances in the absence of organics.

 

What in the world are you smoking to come up with this pseudo-metaphysical nonsense?

 

 

Just like how a clone of Shepard taught to be Shepard is far from the real thing, the Geth programmed to be whatever people think Geth are would never be more than shallow copies. It's an issue that goes deeper than putting physical parts together.

 

Sure, except the Shepard clone wasn't taught to be Shepard. If anything, it was taught to be the polar opposite of Shepard, so this comparison falls flat on its face.

[ImaginaryMatter]

What in the world are you smoking to come up with this pseudo-metaphysical nonsense?

 

Just think about it logically. It's easy to tell from any conversation with Legion in ME2 that the Geth to have philosophical pursuits; they have questions about the nature of life and opinions about different moral issues, as a small example. Where did they get these views from?

[o Ventus]

Just think about it logically. It's easy to tell from any conversation with Legion in ME2 that the Geth to have philosophical pursuits; they have questions about the nature of life and opinions about different moral issues, as a small example. Where did they get these views from?

 

Culture (n) 1. the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc. 2. that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc.

 

The geth have none of these things.

 

The geth, as a whole, not as a faction comprised of individuals, form opinions. That's how a gestalt intelligence works. Legion also tells you that the geth have no concept of individuality, privacy, deceit, or any other trait that identifies a 'person' in a metaphysical manner. 

[Valmar]

I'm not disagreeing with you. The thing was that the Virtual Aliens were ignored. They were a footnote lost in Cerberus Daily News. I mean who the f*** cared about Cerberus Daily News except lore nerds? There was no case made for synthesis in the game. None. Nothing until the last 5 minutes then the information dump from glowboy. That was horrible writing. The material was there for the writers to use throughout the story. And the hamfisted way they did it.... Arrgh!

 

I believe that this uploading could be available in our lifetimes, BTW. I hope it is.

 

I never said synthesis made any sense, if thats what you're getting at. It wasn't foreshadowed. I didn't bring up the virtual aliens as an example of why synthesis was foreshadowed. I was bringing it up for context as to why the reapers consider the harvested to be alive. The reapers preserve the minds of organics in immortal reaper bodies. Virtual Aliens serves as another such example of this. If we understood that they were alive and that this was not genocide but rather salvation we wouldn't be so quick to hate the reapers after synthesis.

 

It was said that synthesis is brain control because people dont want to kill husks and reapers and whatever. Im saying in lore the reapers and husks are alive, just not a form of life we recognize. Like the virtual aliens. After synthesis there will no debate or confusion about this. They'll be alive. Thus proving the reaper's assertion that it is preservation. Tie that into the knowledge we now have spanning back over a billion years as to why the reapers were considered necessary...

 

At anyrate the point was that it isn't brain control.

 

 

None of that means synthesis makes any sense as it stands, though. It's still ridiculously fantasy. I feel like I'm able to understand the general concept the writers were aiming for in it, though. Which I don't think is a bad thing in of itself. It's just their execution that was horrible.

 

 

Exactly. There's a reason why Control or Destroy might be better options. No ending is the right ending to everyone. But there's also things Bioware ignored. I really wish Destroy wasn't treated like a happy war victory, when in fact, you just committed Genocide to the Geth, Edi, and Glyph, and no one seemed to care, and the victory itself was a lie, because the Creator of the Reapers "let" you win.

 

I don't know, it might be a good thing they didn't touch on that. Not all of us care about wiping out synthetics. They're just machines, afterall. Machines are what started this mess in the first place.

 

That mindset proves the need for synthesis, but its still valid to say not everyone cares. I certainly never got the impression anyone other than paragon Shepard really gave any care about the machines. Even before the ending that wiped them out. Sure, some quarians hundreds of years ago were sweet on them (so that we can view the geth as the victims for siding with the reapers in the war) but overall I never got the impression the galaxy generally cared.

 

If Hackett or someone, anyone, came on the news after the war and asked for a moment of quiet for the loss of the geth... I think their might be a bit of an uproar, honestly.

 

 

Nope.  They can be rebuilt if the galaxy chooses

 

In the same sense that organics will come back.

[SwobyJ]

Which again, comes down to choices, and who you are, and what you consider right and wrong. Though the endings weren't put together correctly, I do think the ME trilogy was what Casey said: a subtle way of bring up an issue, and have the player explore what is right and wrong.

 

Yeah, I do like how (even if I think it is imperfectly done) even if you pick the most Paragon stuff, and even if you are the most FullCure/Peace/Synthesis in ME3, there WILL be at least SOMEONE who regards such things, actions, events as wrong (morally, logically, etc).

 

So ultimately, even with the 'best ending', that isn't what this is all about. It is more about bringing up an issue and seeing it reflected on screen. Players may become affirmed in their beliefs through this, or challenged.

 

For the most part, I think Mass Effect trends at least a little more on the 'affirmation' side of things, but I personally predict that over time and more games (especially starting from ME3-DAI), we'll see more and more challenging of player beliefs compared to affirmation (that will still happen, of course).