"You, whatever species you came from, before the Reapers decided to 'preserve' them? They're dead. They died thousands of years ago...and now they can rest in peace"
See? Shepard can be smart. Ish. Sorta.
Though I don't hate the Reapers for existing in itself. I just have a mixture of hate and disgust and annoyance and sadness about everything else about them.
Considering how mulching someone down isn't going to leave a functioning mind, and how even if it did a whole civilisation that's just had that done to it isn't going to feel well-disposed towards the Reapers, and that it's only said rather than shown I'm not inclined to accept that.Billion organic minds all conjoined together to form one identity. It didn't say "knowledge archives" it specifically says organic minds. Not the same as blowing up a library.
Question - billion organic minds or billion minds? IIRC Legion doesn't mention the word "organic".
He doesn't have to because they are no longer organic - but data.
In ME universe the goo counts as preserving. DNA holds knowledge, experience, skills according to Javik. Cloning is also a thing. So, one can clone someone with the same memories, knowledge and skills from the goo.
However, I'm unsure about those billion minds. I do think that the goo is actively used in some way, otherwise Reaper processing ships will serve the same purpose.
"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it."
Also, one little fact that remains barely told is that the reapers don't harvest everyone in every cycle. They harvest enough to make a Reaper, and then kill the rest. Mac Walter even clarified it.
"No. Just like Protheans, the Reapers only take what they need to create a new Reaper. The rest are killed or indoctrinated."
This.For instance, if all the DNA of all organic life is altered, the precision required to do that for all organic life would be almost impossible. Does it just rearrange DNA? If not, where does the matter necessary to add base sequences to the DNA come from? How would the Crucible/Catalyst distinguish between life, if it recognises synthetic and organic life? What would the consequences be if all life was fundamentally changed in one instant? If all the cells in your body had their genetic information changed, it's possible that you would just die. The new DNA would have to be "backwards compatible" with the biochemistry of your cells that express that genetic information.
In ME universe the goo counts as preserving. DNA holds knowledge, experience, skills according to Javik. Cloning is also a thing. So, one can clone someone with the same memories, knowledge and skills from the goo.
Emphasis on the goo.
Shepard's clone was clear about not having the original Shepard's memories. Perhaps that's because Shepard was not first reduced to goo.
Perhaps. Or perhaps because Cerberus didn't care (or didn't know how) to preserve those. Reapers do as evidenced by the Synthesis and Control endings. Protheans should be able to do that as well
Perhaps. Or perhaps because Cerberus didn't care (or didn't know how) to preserve those. Reapers do as evidenced by the Synthesis and Control endings. Protheans should be able to do that as well
Which would mean that the process used to create the clone determines whether memories stored in the DNA are accessible by the clone.
Either that, or we've uncovered another plothole.
Not necessary. For all its worth, the clone is a human and humans can't read DNA like the Protheans. The memories and experience would have to be extracted by Cerberus and implanted in the clone's mind during the process of cloning. If that wasn't done, the clone would not be able to access those memories (unless Javik decides to enlighten him or there is some Prothean tech that does that).
Not necessary. For all its worth, the clone is a human and humans can't read DNA like the Protheans. The memories and experience would have to be extracted by Cerberus and implanted in the clone's mind during the process of cloning. If that wasn't done, the clone would not be able to access those memories (unless Javik decides to enlighten him or there is some Prothean tech that does that).
Okay - but that assumes the experience and memories are stored in the DNA in a way that they would not be part and parcel of any other organism cloned from that DNA.
Or that Cerberus extracted some DNA fragments to create the Shepard clone, but did not use the bits that included her memories.
It might be something similar to the 6th Day. The clone does not remember anything from before cloning. He can, however, receive memories through some tech. Those memories are extracted from the original via the same tech.
Question - billion organic minds or billion minds? IIRC Legion doesn't mention the word "organic".
Despite what some posters might have told you, yes, he does specifically say ORGANIC minds.
Also, like you said, memories, knowledge and experience are all biological markers in the Mass Effect lore. People can argue the logistics of such a thing being 'real' in our reality but it doesn't change the lore. In the fictional universe Mass Effect provides the reapers are alive, preserved minds. Personal feelings on what qualifies as life are irrelevant to the actual lore.
Citation:
https://www.youtube....qtAHNQT3-w#t=62
More citation:
Despite what some posters might have told you, yes, he does specifically say ORGANIC minds.
Also, like you said, memories, knowledge and experience are all biological markers in the Mass Effect lore. People can argue the logistics of such a thing being 'real' in our reality but it doesn't change the lore. In the fictional universe Mass Effect provides the reapers are alive, preserved minds. Personal feelings on what qualifies as life are irrelevant to the actual lore.
Thanks! I remembered a different quote from Legion when he mentioned that the Reapers are like the geth with a lot of minds (programs) conjoined in one unit.
Thanks! I remembered a different quote from Legion when he mentioned that the Reapers are like the geth with a lot of minds (programs) conjoined in one unit.
Hm. Could it had been the scene where he describes what it was like hooked up to a reaper?
That being said, the Reapers are a lot like the geth. Or at least, the Reapers represent what the geth hope to achieve. The dyson sphere project they're trying to build is essentially the same thing as what the reapers offer. A body to hold all their programs so that they can achieve perfect unity and transcendence.
Legion actually touches on this in the ME2 dialogue I provided.
"Your species was offered everything geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence." He was talking about the human-reaper you just blew to hell.
It was from ME2. Here:
It was from ME2. Here:
Spoiler
Ah. Thanks. I miss Legion.
He likely refers to them as 'programs' because at that point they did not know about the organic minds. Legion says as much in the final conversation.
In ME universe the goo counts as preserving. DNA holds knowledge, experience, skills according to Javik. Cloning is also a thing. So, one can clone someone with the same memories, knowledge and skills from the goo.
However, I'm unsure about those billion minds. I do think that the goo is actively used in some way, otherwise Reaper processing ships will serve the same purpose.
"Whatever we were before, we are now...the Reapersition!"
See? Shepard can be smart. Ish. Sorta.
Though I don't hate the Reapers for existing in itself. I just have a mixture of hate and disgust and annoyance and sadness about everything else about them.
I find that quote to be pretty dumb, tbh.
I find that quote to be pretty dumb, tbh.
The quote? Maybe.
The point? I have to agree with it. Whatever happened to people, they were killed, and they're dead. There is no direct continuity of their consciousness even. They become 'A Reaper'. It can all be for the sake of some transcendent notion, but in terms of their individual lives and wills, anything like that is gone. From any individual POV, the Reapers are nothing but data banks holding the ghosts of dead civilizations.
We can value these data banks as either useful, or as a form of life worth preserving in itself (now that they've been created by the Cycle anyway). Or we can dismiss them as, well, data banks, and promote living as ourselves for as long as we can (aka focusing on destroying the Reapers in our way). If the latter was never done, we'd have never been able to reach the Crucible anyway, and have more options available than the Reapers even thought we could. Resistance is not futile, but some kind of change is inevitable. In Mass Effect, we can choose not to become a graveyard of cybernetics, but instead choose Life. In some form, some expression.
EDIT: While I don't consider Shepard to be... much of a character, period - I still think he has some important traits. One is that while he isn't so intelligent, and is often greatly outclassed in that by many characters, he does have, or at least gradually acquires the ability to cut to the chase in an accurate way, and in fact highlight aspects of things that the more 'intelligent' characters deigned not so important (until they are) or useful (until it is). The combination of his biology and experiences and even 'transmutation' has created a human that can and will point out things that are uncomfortable truths, one way or another.
Paragon or Renegade, whatever Shepard says about things tends to be something worth reflecting on, even if in a very basic way (as opposed to a profound or intriguing way, that I could personally hypothetically imagine future Mass Effect protagonists to cover instead). He doesn't point out that the Reapers are dead civilizations walking for nothing; it is to remind the Reapers of what they ultimately are, and to face that fact that they're not immortal, they do have an end, and in the case of the Reaper Destroyer, that end arrived.
This is all just my view of him, of course, but I've also been one to - while cringing at his/her particular delivery of lines - not have as much of a problem with Shepard's written lines as others do. I've found they all have a point, one way or another. Maybe it wasn't because I was expecting a protagonist that was necessarily 'smart', but instead just very headstrong and willful, perhaps stubborn, yet with enough openness to grow and become something more (or simply stronger) than before. I was not expecting an expert, or even someone who has any actual curiosity about things beyond him til the point of the start of the game. In fact, I got the impression that in ME1, Shepard's Investigations of things may have been a relatively new thing for him to do, and only due to the curious nature of the Eden Prime run that had many on edge.
Yes, we're playing someone who is effectively a grunt with great natural talent. But obviously, there are ways he is either forced into or stumbles into or chooses into becoming something perhaps more than just a grunt with talent.
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