150 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

I just finished Inquisition, and Leliana was elected as the Divine. A softened Leliana, by the way. I'm very pleased with this result... but it almost seems too good to be true. The mages are finally allowed to govern themselves. But this could ultimately go horribly wrong. It's interesting... I've spent the whole series advocating for mage liberation, and now that I finally have it, I wonder if it really is too radical and risky. Perhaps Cassandra would be a safer choice? I have no interest in Vivienne's return to the mostly status quo. I could totally accept Cassandra's reforms, but Leliana's choices are just so intriguing. I even find a hardened Leliana to be rather appealing; at least the ideals she fights for are admirable.

[Red of Rivia]

It depends on the viewpoint. But yes, she looks like a revolutionary, the tendency is to be radical.

[raging_monkey]

Its all about the radical zone... its just rad * says menagi of 90s slang*

[LadyofClockwork7]

I tend to favour Cassandra for Divine typically because, to me, she represents a good balance between the mages and the templars, and is a perfect starting point for Thedas to rebuild. 

 

Vivienne favouring the old system will just result in a repeat of history, and Leliana, as you said, feels like she wants to bring on too much, too soon.

 

Imo it's better to ease people into change, especially in the aftermath of a war.

[katerinafm]

Don't worry, since there will be more games in the franchise, the Divine won't make that much of a difference in the world because of resources and stuff and we'll only get mentions ;P.

 

I think in the end even though being pro mage is good, she doesn't handle it right. The Circles are gone? Have magic academies or something like Dorian has talked about having in Tevinter exist in their place? What are the precautions against vulnerable to possession mages? If she has taken everything into account, then great. But like other characters in the game have said, she sounds like too much of an idealist. Cassandra does seem to be aware of both the goods and bads of the Circle. Vivienne has too much of an iron fist against her own.

[Daerog]

As Katerinafm said, it won't matter too much in the future.

 

I prefer Vivienne as my canon Inquisitor is a Loyalist. However, I would not be surprised if the major nations of Thedas just decided to run their own Circles.

 

This would be different than Tevinter. In Tevinter, the Circles hold a lot of political power and pretty much run the show. In the south, I predict that the governments of the south will run their own Circles. So, instead of the Circles taking power like in Tevinter, it will be national governments who take over the Circles.

 

That is just my guess, though. The mages can't just be another landless nation like the Dalish. They are either under the Chantry or under the nation they currently reside in. They are not some military/mercenary organization like the Grey Wardens or the Inquisition.

[d-boy15]

In my opinion, I put it this way.

Vivienne as a Divine seem like another step of her game. She prefer the old system but with her be the one who's in charge.

Both Cassandra and Leliana are split part of Justinia. Leliana had her ideal while Cassandra had her realistic view.

Cassandra want to preserve the present chantry. So, she fix it like updating patch. By that being realistic the revolt isn't much but the change will be slow and with the core of old chantry remain it possible that after she's gone thing will go back to the way it was.

Leliana swiftly change because she think if she take too long she won't archive anything like Justinia. For her it do or do not, which could lead in to another chaos or solve the problem.

In the end it depend on your view. There is no perfect divine because if there is then either you being bias or writer fail at their job.

[Augustei]

Step 1) Mages get Freedom
Step 2) As always a few cases of abominations (How common / remote is irrelevent)
Step 3) Mages with their magic start taking all the work from the commoners
Step 4) Mages lynched by mob, riots and mass killings against mages.

Hope that was your plan, otherwise you going to be dissapointed son. Y'know if Bioware ends up potraying things realistically. It's extremely unlikely it will go any other way when the mob has been fearful and hateful of magic for over 1000 years, and when the economic reprocussions are felt from mage freedom when the mages inevitably take all the work.

Freedom from the Circles is waaaay to radical imo. Unless the Monarchies step in and take certain measures, but we have no indications as to this.

[Augustei]

Vivienne as a Divine seem like another step of her game. She prefer the old system but with her be the one who's in charge.

I wouldn't say the old system per se, I mean for one theres Mages in the Chantry just by her being on the Sunburst Throne. But she also "Gives the mages more freedoms and responsibilities than ever before" She wants to maintain the circles, and maintain the Templars. But get the mages more active in the community, more involved.. As to what this entails we don't know the specifics.

[CathyMe]

Hardened Leliana is my personal preference. I always favored mage freedom, and she achieves it without being too Disney. And I don't see how "mages roam free" when the epilogue clearly states that mages form a hogwarts-like college of enchanters, independent from the chantry, which is what I wanted from the start. I also like how she tries to eliminate discrimination against other races, showing that she realises that the world doesen't revolve around mages and templars. My biggest fear is that is very easy to go from "Everyone can be andrastian" to "Everyone has to be andrastian" leading to another f*** up like the Dales, but alas, no option to get rid of the chantry altogether.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I am very excited and fond of the idea of independent magical centers of education such as the likes of College of Enchanters. Reminds me of Hogwarts, College of Winterhold and Arcane University. 

 

Leliana is not too radical. She is just a visionary. 

[Andres Hendrix]

She's not "too radical", she is Trotsky without the ****** & vinger, she also lacks secularism . Now secularism, that would be super radical in DA. lol

[Daerog]

Leliana may be a visionary, but she is just giving the mages to their local governments to control. If mages aren't under the protection of the Chantry, then they fall under the protection and laws of their local governments.

 

 

Leliana: "Hurray, mages are now free!"

Nations of Thedas: "Wait, what? We can't have mages just doing what they want, they have to obey the law, and if not Chantry law, then ours!"

Leliana: "Whatever, it's not the Chantry's problem anymore!"

 

-or-

 

Leliana: "Hurray, mages are now free!"

N. of Thedas: "Wait, what? We can't have mages just doing what they want, they have to obey the law, and if not Chantry law, then ours!"

Leliana: "No, leave them alone, they should go to the College of Enchanters and be free!"

N. of Thedas: "F*** that! The lyrium trade will now go through us and we will have our own magic police and do what we will with the lyrium!"

 

 

I don't see this point made very often. Mages without Chantry protection will have to assimilate into their nations and no longer be a single group or the writers will just have to handwave human behavior to have a landless nation of mages be respected and obeyed by the nations of Thedas.

[Raeona]

She's a radical all right, but this is the best time for it. With the Inquisition taking hold and the chaos calming down a little it's the best time for massive reforms. 

 

When push comes to shove though, I doubt it'll work the way she hopes. No matter how many spies she has she can't change the fact that the people of Thedas are terrified of mages. People will attack the mages out of fear, they'll strike back out of self defence and it'll escalate from there.  

 

That said, if Bioware is brave enough to actually show her changing things in some dramatic fashion I'd love to see it. 

[Panda]

It's too naive and I don't like it.

[ThreeF]

No one is suspicious of "Miraculously her words take root" ?

 

I haven't tried it, but I like the way conscripted mages + Leliana option sounds:

 

Spoiler

When Leliana disbands the Circles, they remain with the Inquisition and form a new college called the Bright Hand.

To many, this new order represents the best of mages, an example for the rest of Thedas to follow.

 

 

Cassandra can end being rather radical too when it comes to templars:

 

Spoiler

Those Templars of the Inquisition who were recruited at Therinfal Redoubt are left with a choice

Many follow in the footsteps of Commander Cullen, going through the slow and agonizing process of lyrium withdrawal.

This frees many to join the Seekers of Truth under [Cassandra/the Divine] – a renewed Order dedicated to justice for all

 

or

Those Templars of the Inquisition who were recruited at Therinfal Redoubt are left with a choice
Many follow in the footsteps of Commander Cullen, going through the slow and agonizing process of lyrium withdrawal.

They elect to remain with the Inquisition, unanimously and formally disbanding the Templar Order forever.

 

Which basically means no more Templars (with all the implications)

[SurelyForth]

The thing is, a lot of the fear of mages in Thedas is due to Chantry doctrine. If Leliana is smart (and she is), she won't merely allow mages to form their own colleges, she'll soften the Chantry's doctrine against mages. Instead of teaching the masses that mages are nothing more than pre-demons waiting to explode in sin and flame, the Chantry could teach the masses that mages are people with useful skills that require refinement in schools in order to be safer and more effective. It's a collective mindset that needs to be shifted, and the Divine is the best person to do it.

[d-boy15]

No one is suspicious of "Miraculously her words take root" ?


[)

Blood magic! It must be!!!

Burn her! in the name of the maker!

The thing is, a lot of the fear of mages in Thedas is due to Chantry doctrine. If Leliana is smart (and she is), she won't merely allow mages to form their own colleges, she'll soften the Chantry's doctrine against mages. Instead of teaching the masses that mages are nothing more than pre-demons waiting to explode in sin and flame, the Chantry could teach the masses that mages are people with useful skills that require refinement in schools in order to be safer and more effective. It's a collective mindset that needs to be shifted, and the Divine is the best person to do it.

I though there is a dialogs with her imply or suggest that she gonna do it. Can't remember when. Might be wrong.

[ThreeF]

Blood magic! It must be!!!

Burn her! in the name of the maker!

 

Spoiler

or ashes

[Korva]

I don't see this point made very often. Mages without Chantry protection will have to assimilate into their nations and no longer be a single group or the writers will just have to handwave human behavior to have a landless nation of mages be respected and obeyed by the nations of Thedas.

 

Exactly. And none of the powers-that-be will want another Fiona or a wannabe mini-Tevinter on their hands. There are plenty of non-doctrinal reasons to control mages and magic. Also, first and foremost the mages need to learn how to be responsible for themselves now that they don't have cushy Circles to take care of every need without them doing any work in return. I think many will find it a rough wake-up call.

 

As much as I like Leliana, her Divine-ending is just too just-so and flawless.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't see this point made very often. Mages without Chantry protection will have to assimilate into their nations and no longer be a single group or the writers will just have to handwave human behavior to have a landless nation of mages be respected and obeyed by the nations of Thedas.

 

Just because Leliana sets them free doesn't mean they're out of the Chantry's influence. I dunno if the Divine in Dragon Age excommunicates leaders, but I'd assume if Ostwick or Ferelden wasn't playing nice with her "free mages"  the Divine could use her influence in other nations to bully them into doing so.

[macready1988]

Seemed fine to me. We saw the shtick hard line chantry got the place into. I figure closed fist had its chance and screwed it up, open palm deserves a try now. Besides, the open palm can still dish out the occasional spank if necesssary should some get too radical with their new freedoms.

[Steelcan]

Its ridiculous what she does, and I'm tempted to write it off completely as fanservice nonsense

[Bigdoser]

You can say none of the divines will work in the future some people just can't accept that Bioware has made all outcomes come out favourably. 

[goofyomnivore]

Its ridiculous what she does, and I'm tempted to write it off completely as fanservice nonsense

I can talk myself into hardened Leliana attempting to set the mages free, but I scratch my head at the softened version of the epilogue. Centuries of Chantry indoctrination will not be subdued with words.