60 réponses à ce sujet

[WangtorioJackson]

I think you are being confused here. There is a class and there is a player who plays that class. A player can be good or bad. A class can be balanced or not balanced well for that difficulty. I think that a reaver played by a good player with minimal team synergy is very funny class to play and is way more fun than anything else. Also, not sure what "burden" means and what you mean by "carrying you"? lol-score? Ability to stay alive? Number of medals? IMO, the only thing that matters in DAI multiplayer is staying alive while doing at least some damage. If you worried about the score you should always play AW or some other class that comes close aka elementalist with firestorm and much screen shake. If your goal is to speed run, then certainly, we are not in the same boat and view the whole thing differently.

I wasn't confused before, but I sure as hell am now from this post. All I was referencing in the post you quoted was the Reaver's viability on Perilous. I don't know where you are getting any of the other conditionals you bring up from. I didn't say anything about score or medals or speedrunning. You really like putting words in people's mouths I guess.

 

As far as being a burden and having to be carried, it should be pretty clear with anyone who is capable of critical thinking, but it seems that, for you, I need to spell it out. You say it yourself: "The only thing that matters in DAI multiplayer is staying alive while doing at least some damage." Well, it just so happens that nearly every other class in the game besides Reaver is better at staying alive and better at doing at least some damage. By picking Reaver in a Perilous match, you are telling your teammates "You guys are gonna have to play around me or I'll get us all killed." You will stand a more likely chance of dying, burdening your teammates with either having to revive you and risk possibly dying themselves or fight on with a man down. You will not be doing as much damage as other classes because you'll have to play it safer due to your squishiness, thus burdening the rest of your team with more enemies they have to kill, which can potentially lead to being swarmed and dying. That's what being a burden is.

[akots1]

... That in no way means the classes are balanced. ...

We can ask for nerf/buff to make all classes better balanced. It partially worked in ME3 multiplayer. There must be "I win anyhow" class though which will never be nerfed and a scapegoat class which will never be buffed but all the rest is open for discussion as I understand.

[akots1]

As far as being a burden and having to be carried, it should be pretty clear with anyone who is capable of critical thinking, but it seems that, for you, I need to spell it out. You say it yourself: "The only thing that matters in DAI multiplayer is staying alive while doing at least some damage." Well, it just so happens that nearly every other class in the game besides Reaver is better at staying alive and better at doing at least some damage. By picking Reaver in a Perilous match, you are telling your teammates "You guys are gonna have to play around me or I'll get us all killed." You will stand a more likely chance of dying, burdening your teammates with either having to revive you and risk possibly dying themselves or fight on with a man down. You will not be doing as much as other classes because you'll have to play it safer due to your squishiness, thus burdening the rest of your team with more enemies they have to kill, which can potentially lead to being swarmed and dying. That's what being a burden is.

So... what? Don't play the reaver? Hell no! L2P reaver? Hell yes! Also, I don't see no difference between a self-cast lol-barrier and somebody-else-cast-on-you lol-barrier. A crutch is a crutch. Does not matter where it comes from. Also, I don't typically care if the team fails or extracts as long as it was fun. You cannot take this game seriously and it is not intended to be taken seriously.

 

Just to reiterate, I think that in terms of pure dps, reaver is still number one. She has potential, largely unrealized potential though.

[Beerfish]

In pugs, if I am a keeper, I won't be chasing you and casting my barrier because first priority is my survival and I want to cast that barrier on myself. If you do rush to nuke the spawn on your own without waiting or at least asking, it is your problem. But templar should be more or less fine in terms of survival on her own?

 

Some keepers though are more altruistic and will barrier the front lines. I always admire these kind of people. They are also preciously rare in pugs.

Strange, in your previous post you say the Reaver is fine if you have a barrier caster, in this one you immediately say you prioritize yourself and will not cast barrier on the up front fighter.  (Also where in my previous post did I say I was rushing off by myself into spawns.  And no the Templar is not fine by themsleves on about wave 4 when the spawns include 2 assassins about 6 archers and another boss or two.

[akots1]

Strange, in your previous post you say the Reaver is fine if you have a barrier caster, in this one you immediately say you prioritize yourself and will not cast barrier on the up front fighter.  (Also where in my previous post did I say I was rushing off by myself into spawns.  And no the Templar is not fine by themsleves on about wave 4 when the spawns include 2 assassins about 6 archers and another boss or two.

I think I am a bad keeper. But if there is some window before spawn-rushing, and you are within reach, I will cast that barrier. Otherwise, I'll just shoot first and take all the aggro. Should work reasonably well in most cases? Templar then would have some window to combo-nuke the spawn without much trouble. Same for reaver with War horn/DR spam. I am not experienced enough to say it works all the time as timing here is quite tricky. I'm working on it.

[WangtorioJackson]

So... what? Don't play the reaver? Hell no! L2P reaver? Hell yes! Also, I don't see no difference between a self-cast lol-barrier and somebody-else-cast-on-you lol-barrier. A crutch is a crutch. Does not matter where it comes from. Also, I don't typically care if the team fails or extracts as long as it was fun. You cannot take this game seriously and it is not intended to be taken seriously.

 

Just to reiterate, I think that in terms of pure dps, reaver is still number one. She has potential, largely unrealized potential though.

No, just don't play Reaver on Perilous, unless everyone on the team including you has sickening amounts of promotions and purple gear. Also, it's hilarious how you flip flop on Barrier. First you say that Reaver is good as long as you have Barrier, and then you say that Barrier is just a crutch and laugh at it. Also, as Beerfish pointed out above, you say you only cast Barrier on yourself if you're a Keeper, yet you expect when you play as a Reaver to have a reliable Barrier caster? How hypocritical.

 

And again, all I was talking about in regards to the Reaver is its viability on clearing Perilous. By admitting that you don't care if the team fails, you've basically proven my entire point. If wiping on zone 3 with noobs and a crappy class is fun for you, then have at it. That's not how most people derive fun from this game.

 

I do agree with you, however, that the Reaver has largely unrealized potential DPS, but unlike you, I know exactly why it is unrealized. It's because she is too squishy to live long enough to deal all the DPS she's capable of. At least on Perilous. On Routine and even Threatening she can be a beast.

[akots1]

No, just don't play Reaver on Perilous.

I think I will not follow your advice, sorry, I play what I want when I want.

[akots1]

... I do agree with you, however, that the Reaver has largely unrealized potential DPS, but unlike you, I know exactly why it is unrealized. It's because she is too squishy to live long enough to deal all the DPS she's capable of. At least on Perilous. On Routine and even Threatening she can be a beast.

I remember same type of discussion about drell and how few people will actually play them in gold due to squishiness. Turned out tricky to master but very rewarding in the end. Eventually, drellguard came out as official dps king of ME3 multiplayer. I've seen only two people being able to play him well (FTFTL and Slasher) while many dared to try and failed including me. I did dominated silver pugs with it though while doing his waves for the challenges.

[WangtorioJackson]

I think I will not follow your advice, sorry, I play what I want when I want.

Okay, it is your right to pick a crappy class and bring down the whole team's chances of clearing zone 5 Perilous. Just remember though that just because you can have fun even though the whole party fails, doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the team feels the same way. They may all have wanted to clear zone 5, and may all be very pissed at the Reaver who got them all killed but doesn't care because at least he had fun. This is, after all, cooperative multiplayer. Just think about that the next time you're about to go with Reaver on Perilous.

 

Also, I would appreciate it if you actually addressed any of the points I made in my last post.

[Eldial3los]

But-but, I do like to complicate ... myself (does not sound English but whatever) at least on some occasions. If you don't want to complicate ... yourself (I'm not sure what this means still), just play some lol-faceroll-on-the-keyboard to win classes all the time every time. I'm sure this will make you happy by not complicating yourself and me happy by being able to challenge myself and by you carrying the game to victory if I die, so win-win either way.

 

My bad, obviously I'm just use to how people say it here in East Canada (Local way of saying it in Montreal)

 

Don't complicate yourself is just a shorter way for saying don't complicate things for yourself or don't make things complicated (Probably the best way of writing it). 

[WangtorioJackson]

My bad, obviously I'm just use to how people say it here in East Canada (Local way of saying it in Montreal)

 

Don't complicate yourself is just a shorter way for saying don't complicate things for yourself or don't make things complicated (Probably the best way of writing it). 

No, it wasn't your bad. It was easy to glean your meaning from the context for anyone with a modicum of reading comprehension. He was just trying to be passive-aggressive.

[Altruismo]

Playing a Reaver on perilous is completely viable, but more than most classes the Reaver has to respect their team composition.

If you're in a party with an Archer, a Necro and a Templar, it's probably not a great idea to pick Reaver until you've played a round at least with that group to see how they handle agro.

People talk about Reaver's low survivability like they've discovered the wheel or something. It's not complicated: pull agro without some form of damage mitigation in place, and you fall down - same as every other class. The Reaver's problem is they mostly have to rely on other classes to provide that mitigation, but when that happens, it's good for everybody (except the AW players that get butthurt that a Reaver stole all the medals).

 

 This is, after all, cooperative multiplayer. Just think about that the next time you're about to go with Reaver on Perilous.

 

Oh the irony... perish the thought that you might be asked to co-operate with a Reaver.

Although to an extent I agree with your point;

Bad play by a player that picks Reaver for perilous when they can see that the party composition can't support it.

But similarly, bad play by the player that blames the Reaver for the loss when they could have supported it but chose not to.

[akots1]

Playing a Reaver on perilous is completely viable, but more than most classes the Reaver has to respect their team composition.

If you're in a party with an Archer, a Necro and a Templar, it's probably not a great idea to pick Reaver until you've played a round at least with that group to see how they handle agro.

People talk about Reaver's low survivability like they've discovered the wheel or something. It's not complicated: pull agro without some form of damage mitigation in place, and you fall down - same as every other class. The Reaver's problem is they mostly have to rely on other classes to provide that mitigation, but when that happens, it's good for everybody (except the AW players that get butthurt that a Reaver stole all the medals).

Oh the irony... perish the thought that you might be asked to co-operate with a Reaver.

Although to an extent I agree with your point;

Bad play by a player that picks Reaver for perilous when they can see that the party composition can't support it.

But similarly, bad play by the player that blames the Reaver for the loss when they could have supported it but chose not to.

Could not agree more, especially the lol-AW point.

[WangtorioJackson]

Playing a Reaver on perilous is completely viable, but more than most classes the Reaver has to respect their team composition.

If you're in a party with an Archer, a Necro and a Templar, it's probably not a great idea to pick Reaver until you've played a round at least with that group to see how they handle agro.

People talk about Reaver's low survivability like they've discovered the wheel or something. It's not complicated: pull agro without some form of damage mitigation in place, and you fall down - same as every other class. The Reaver's problem is they mostly have to rely on other classes to provide that mitigation, but when that happens, it's good for everybody (except the AW players that get butthurt that a Reaver stole all the medals).

 

 

Oh the irony... perish the thought that you might be asked to co-operate with a Reaver.

Although to an extent I agree with your point;

Bad play by a player that picks Reaver for perilous when they can see that the party composition can't support it.

But similarly, bad play by the player that blames the Reaver for the loss when they could have supported it but chose not to.

I have no doubt it is viable with a good team at your side who are all (you included) willing and able to coordinate and cooperate with each other. I would love to have a skilled, reliable group I could do that with. Despite what it may sound like, I like the Reaver and I like playing as the Reaver. She is a beast on Threatening, and I would absolutely love to be able to play her effectively on Perilous. But I don't have a group to play with. I have to rely entirely on PUGs. And it's difficult enough happening upon a group that you can clear zone 5 with on Perilous when they play as good classes. If you see a Reaver in that Perilous lobby, I'd be willing to bet 9 times out of 10 you will not clear zone 5.

[akots1]

My bad, obviously I'm just use to how people say it here in East Canada (Local way of saying it in Montreal)

 

Don't complicate yourself is just a shorter way for saying don't complicate things for yourself or don't make things complicated (Probably the best way of writing it). 

Uh, OK, I get it now, thanks for clarifying that.

[akots1]

... And it's difficult enough happening upon a group that you can clear zone 5 with on Perilous when they play as good classes. If you see a Reaver in that Perilous lobby, I'd be willing to bet 9 times out of 10 you will not clear zone 5.

But-but, reaver IS a good class. The problem is not with the reaver, don't blame her. I tend to always blame myself but not the other players for failing. It is constructive and helps to learn IMO. Sorry, I failed to carry or died due to my own stupidity in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or made some other poor choice. It is always my fault. Will do better next time.

 

Also, there are no bad classes, not really. There are lol-to-win classes though. The game is somewhat poorly balanced in this regard. So, it is up to us to ask for tweaks/nerfs/buffs to change the way it plays out.

[WangtorioJackson]

But-but, reaver IS a good class. The problem is not with the reaver, don't blame her. I tend to always blame myself but not the other players for failing. It is constructive and helps to learn IMO. Sorry, I failed to carry or died due to my own stupidity in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or made some other poor choice. It is always my fault. Will do better next time.

Read any discussions about MP class tiers that people have posted here and on other forums. Reavers always come up pretty low on the list. Like I said, I like Reaver too, but I hold no delusions about where it stands compared to other classes.

[akots1]

Read any discussions about MP class tiers that people have posted here and on other forums. Reavers always come up pretty low on the list. Like I said, I like Reaver too, but I hold no delusions about where it stands compared to other classes.

Oh, but be assured I did and there is a lot of bs in these discussions. Things do tend to settle down after a couple more months judging by ME3 multiplayer and the way it went. Also, to each one its own and people have fun with different things. For me, I think, at the moment, reaver is most fun to experiment with. I wish they lowered the cool down on rampage (currently 30 seconds), let's say, make it same as upgraded PotA (32 seconds base minus 8 = 24 seconds upgraded). That would make her a bit more "competitive" as people tend to rush it even when there is no need to and no skill/team synergy to handle it. I'd say 90% of wipes are caused by rushing to nuke a spawn and failing. Zone 5 is different though. There, it is more of an issue whether you get on top of DC jump or under RTC unstoppable whirlwind and both can be random at times.

[WangtorioJackson]

Oh, but be assured I did and there is a lot of bs in these discussions. Things do tend to settle down after a couple more months judging by ME3 multiplayer and the way it went. Also, to each one its own and people have fun with different things. For me, I think, at the moment, reaver is most fun to experiment with. I wish they lowered the cool down on rampage. That would make her a bit more "competitive" as people tend to rush it even when there is no need to and no skill/team synergy to handle it. I'd say 90% of wipes are caused by rushing to nuke a spawn and failing. Zone 5 is different though. There, it is more of an issue whether you get on top of DC jump or under RTC unstoppable whirlwind and both can be random at times.

Lowering the cooldown on Rampage would definitely help, but I feel like abusing crits with War Horn and the relevant passives mitigates that pretty sufficiently. What would really help, as haxaw said in post 23, would be to make Dragon Rage affect health the way the tooltip says it does. And to go back to Dragon Rage triggering the health gain from Rampage every time like it was pre-patch, but without the glitch Rampage had before.

[akots1]

Yes, that critical accumulation sometimes really works. It is not guaranteed though and still there is substantial cool down as I think, count starts after rampage has ended (not sure).

 

There is also sometimes something strange going on and I suspect that in certain cases, health gain is triggered but only after rampage has run its course. It is variable though and depends on lag or something else. I died a few times after killing the last enemy and after the key dropped. In all cases, I was under rampage at the time and once I got healed (apparently getting rampage endpoint) healing but the other times, nothing happened. Either healing did not arrive or rampage ended before I died and somehow all was messed up. There is obviously some fishy thing going on there probably linked to the timing.

 

Also, dragon rage is glitching and taking more health off than it should. Again, not very repeatable and cannot tell exactly what is going on. This can be observed when attacking bosses (bears, giants, revenants or pride demons) from the rear. They do have some aoe though that might actually drop your health.

 

Also, arcane horrors drop them reavers in under 2 seconds. So, good idea is to stay away from the treasure rooms or at least stand in the doorway.

[Bocochoco]

+50 cunning is better than cooldown as the natural cooldowns besides warhorn are fast enough and without the extra cunning you are waiting for cunning to build back up too often I have found.
Regardless, I never play reaver on Perilous unless I know my group can carry me.

[akots1]

+50 cunning. ...

Sure, 99 cunning will solve all the problems.

[Eldial3los]

Sure, 99 cunning will solve all the problems.

Well why not 200 cunning, so you can have critical 100% + 200 constituation so you can tank (sort of)

[akots1]

Well why not 200 cunning, so you can have critical 100% + 200 constituation so you can tank (sort of)

Sure, there is always an "easy" way around all problems.

[Kami_N]

Hey boatzu, it's kami. I've never post on the forums lol.

 

What's with all the hate towards the reaver? Boatzu has seen me play Reaver on Perilous. Yes, we know... Reavers cannot tank very well. However, if you have the sufficient accessories and weapons, it can be a viable class on Perilous. You can still fight without barrier. You just need to properly time your abilities. If you do have a barrier, great. Barrier allows you to be a little more cocky in all your attacks. If you don't have barrier, abuse your warhorn and combat roll. Crit to reduce cooldowns, and always keep your LoS if you can't keep warhorn or combat roll up. And remember, Warhorn is the BEST viable way to heal during rampage. 

 

Source: 63 promotes on Reaver