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[Autocrat]

Bioware writing has been under some flak lately for being "santizied" "cliched" " pure black vs white" but I saw nobody mention Bioware's ability to write proper monarchs and high lords, in a fantasy feudal game.

 

Basically to to be blunt I found Biowares kings and queen to be uninspiring, timid and have an aura of "Cuteness" around them. King Cailan, Viscount Dummar, Queen Celene , duke Gaspard and Alistar failed to make my character feel any awe or amazement. In fact I was dumbfounded how such characters could end in a position of power in the first place. When I meet a monarch I expect to meet a person who has a totally different view of the world than the average joe, a detached person with grandiose ideas , arrogant about his power because of the rule  "the King always gets what he wants".

 

A monarch should not treat my character as an equal, but as a great person addressing his lessers, that is were the "Awe" feeling should come in.

 

Bioware's monarch are basically Disney monarchs lacking charisma. After hearing so much about Celene in the previous games, I expected to be struck by awe by her powerful presence and commanding gaze, sadly she was just like any other npc, uninspired and boring. The only high lord that Bioware ever made that had a commanding presence was Loghain and and to a lesser extent, Arl Eamon. 

 

 

Monarchs live in their own world, they lack the caution of the common man. Great monarchs know this and surround themselves with capable advisers and retinues, and take their advise when needed while bad monarchs keep living in their own fantasy worlds.

 

Now I have never played the witcher games and I doubt I will, but seriously I heard this guy was a King in the witcher and I am like wow... http://a.pomf.se/rovemx.webm I could literally feel the power oozing from every cell in him!!!!

 

A 4 second video inspired in me a sense of awe and fear  greater than all the dragon age monarchs combined. Now this is what a proper monarch should be! Seriously I tempted just to play the game to bask in his presence " despite my heavy objections about sexualization in the game"

 

Opinions?

[Gileadan]

Well, Charles Dance sure has some experience with portraying an intimidating lord.

[Il Divo]

Bioware writing has been under some flak lately for being "santizied" "cliched" " pure black vs white" but I saw nobody mention Bioware's ability to write proper monarchs and high lords, in a fantasy feudal game.

 

Basically to to be blunt I found Biowares kings and queen to be uninspiring, timid and have an aura of "Cuteness" around them. King Cailan, Viscount Dummar, Queen Celene , duke Gaspard and Alistar failed to make my character feel any awe or amazement. In fact I was dumbfounded how such characters could end in a position of power in the first place. When I meet a monarch I expect to meet a person who has a totally different view of the world than the average joe, a detached person with grandiose ideas , arrogant about his power because of the rule  "the King always gets what he wants".

 

Isn't this what Cailan basically is? Sure, he's an idiot in many ways and he's nice to your character, but there's always that sense of "My way or not at all" just given how entitled he is at the idea of battling the Darkspawn and how he refuses to listen to Loghain at all. 

[Elfyoth]

Isn't this what Cailan basically is? Sure, he's an idiot in many ways and he's nice to your character, but there's always that sense of "My way or not at all" just given how entitled he is at the idea of battling the Darkspawn and how he refuses to listen to Loghain at all. 

Agreed

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Basically to to be blunt I found Biowares kings and queen to be uninspiring, timid and have an aura of "Cuteness" around them. King Cailan, Viscount Dummar, Queen Celene , duke Gaspard and Alistar failed to make my character feel any awe or amazement.

 

Not sure if serious, but...

 

Cailan was weak, and therefor deposed by Loghain, who was anything but "cute."

 

Alistair wasn't King. While he could conceivably become one through certain choices, it was part of the story that it wasn't a role that he was suited to. Anora could be argued to be "cute," but if you genuinely don't think she had the ability to rise to that level of power, then you're probably playing the wrong RPG, entirely.

 

Celene made perfect sense, given the context of the land she ruled. She wouldn't have made sense in Ferelden, but in Orlais, she was the one who best understood the game.

 

Duke Gaspard wasn't a king, and his efforts to become one had failed. Only through taking specific actions could he have been made one.

 

Final point: I don't think you understand what the word "monarch" means. It is not an earned position, it is hereditary. There is a reason why it is not considered an effective system of government. You are one death away from a roll of the dice as to whether your next leader is capable, or not.

[Autocrat]

Isn't this what Cailan basically is? Sure, he's an idiot in many ways and he's nice to your character, but there's always that sense of "My way or not at all" just given how entitled he is at the idea of battling the Darkspawn and how he refuses to listen to Loghain at all. 

 

Cailan did not feel like a King, He did not have an aura of command or inspiration around him. I know the writers wrote him as a bad king, but something went missing and he just lacks charisma and he came as he went "No impression left in my character". Even if the king is horrible, my character should feel a bit intimidated around him. In fact I never felt he wore a crown at all.

[Kantr]

Well Ferelden Monarchs can't get too uppity or they'll be soon out.

 

As for Celene she deigns to treat you as a near equal due to the power behind you. Plus the court approval helps

[X Equestris]

Cailan did not feel like a King, He did not have an aura of command or inspiration around him. I know the writers wrote him as a bad king, but something went missing and he just lacks charisma and he came as he went "No impression left in my character". Even if the king is horrible, my character should feel a bit intimidated around him. In fact I never felt he wore a crown at all.

I feel like that was exactly the point with Cailan. Lots of real world monarchs have been utterly lacking when it came to charisma.

[Il Divo]

Cailan did not feel like a King, He did not have an aura of command or inspiration around him. I know the writers wrote him as a bad king, but something went missing and he just lacks charisma and he came as he went "No impression left in my character". Even if the king is horrible, my character should feel a bit intimidated around him. In fact I never felt he wore a crown at all.

 

But this sounds like you're asking for an effective king. Cailin is somebody that people listen to because he wears a crown and for little other reason. He's amicable and genuinely liked, but also extremely stubborn and largely gets what he wants because of his lineage. It's the sort of attitude that he keeps on the good side of his troops/people but pisses off his advisors who more often than not have a better plan in mind.  

[ThreeF]

That is a very romantic view on monarchs. A charismatic commanding monarch is every bit a Disney cliche.

 

Through history there were many different kings and queens, some where pawns, some were charismatic but terrible rules, some where great rules and ruled with iron fist, some were very sneaky, some where little bit of everything.

 

DA does very good job at depicting different kinds of monarchs. Celene is of a sneaky kind and her relationship with IQ through the quest is very fitting, especially if you consider that by the time IQ meets her he/she commands a reasonable power of his/her own.

[SofaJockey]

Opinions?

 

I prefer to think of it as BioWare succeeding to write unconvincing leaders.

• Cailan is a shadow of the leader that Maric was, one reason for Loghain's actions in DAO.
• Viscount Dumar is also a flawed individual who largely fails to hold Kirkwall together. Even his successor Viscount Bran appears a much better bet.
• Celene and Gaspard need to be strong but flawed to balance each other for story and DAI plot reasons.
• Alistair being a reluctant leader highlights the value the Hero of Ferelden brings.

If the leaders in Dragon Age were towering figures, why would you need to look to a Warden recruit, a refugee from Lothering and an accidental Inquisitor to save Thedas (or not in the case of the Champion).

[Autocrat]

But this sounds like you're asking for an effective king. Cailin is somebody that people listen to because he wears a crown and for little other reason. He's amicable and genuinely liked, but also extremely stubborn and largely gets what he wants because of his lineage. 

 

I am not asking for an effective king. Even horrible, bad kings feel like kings because of arrogance. They should not behave like you are an equal to them. Horrible kings are arrogant and take no advise. All I am asking for is to have a feeling that I am standing in front of a monarch, wither good or bad.  The 4 second video I posted above managed to convene this to me without event knowing wither he is a bad king or a good king.

[Kriztofer]

What about Anora? Harrowmont? Bhelen?

[Autocrat]

I prefer to think of it as BioWare succeeding to write unconvincing leaders.

• Cailan is a shadow of the leader that Maric was, one reason for Loghain's actions in DAO.
• Viscount Dumar is also a flawed individual who largely fails to hold Kirkwall together. Even his successor Viscount Bran appears a much better bet.
• Celene and Gaspard need to be strong but flawed to balance each other for story and DAI plot reasons.
• Alistair being a reluctant leader highlights the value the Hero of Ferelden brings.

If the leaders in Dragon Age were towering figures, why would you need to look to a Warden recruit, a refugee from Lothering and an accidental Inquisitor to save Thedas (or not in the case of the Champion).

 

Not all kings should be towering, but some of them should be. Even the ones not towering should not feel like I am addressing a pitiful village mayor. They simply do not feel like people in charge, wither good or bad.

[Autocrat]

What about Anora? Harrowmont? Bhelen?

 

Those were also great examples I forgot. Bhelen and Harrowmont were good "not great" characters.

[Il Divo]

I am not asking for an effective king. Even horrible, bad kings feel like kings because of arrogance. They should not behave like you are an equal to them. Horrible kings are arrogant and take no advise. All I am asking for is to have a feeling that I am standing in front of a monarch, wither good or bad.  The 4 second video I posted above managed to convene this to me without event knowing wither he is a bad king or a good king.

 

But in Cailin's case, why is this a demonstration of Bioware failing to write convincing monarchs? Cailin isn't a horrible king in the sense of being a brutal tyrant. Actually, the entire point is that he tries to be your bro and only plays the "I'm king" card when resistance is felt (again due to advisors mainly). 

 

It sounds more like you want Bioware to display a certain kind of king, which they themselves have not chosen to portray. But that hardly demonstrates an inability to write convincing monarchs. 

[SofaJockey]

Not all kings should be towering, but some of them should be. Even the ones not towering should not feel like I am addressing a pitiful village mayor. They simply do not feel like people in charge, wither good or bad.

 

If they were in charge, they would be leading the fight against the Archdemon / Arishok/ Mage-Templar rebellion / Corypheus, if not in person, then with appropriate troops and champions. The plot demands it.

[TXAstarte]

OP, I don't think you know monarchs as well as you think...

 

You are talking also about a "public" persona, and we are seeing the monarchs of Thedas in much more than their public personas.  They sweat, bleed, die and **** like anyone else at the base of it all.

[TheLittleBird]

So every king has to be arrogant about being a king?

 

... alright then.

[LostScout61]

The Inqisition is an army of true-believer vigilantes who draw support from all over Thedas.  They don't ask for permission to establish camps and restore order in Ferelden.  They take over fortresses in Orlais, and the forts they allow to be re-occupied by Orlesian troops have signs out front saying "under protection of the Inquisition".  They don't ask for Celene's permission to do this.  Celene treats the Inqisitor as an equal because she desperately needs the help to secure her own rule.  A monarch who comes off as arrogant and commanding towards someone who they wish to support them winds up being replaced by Gaspard.  None of the monarch's seen in Thedas so far had particularly secure rulers, they had significant opposition and were trying to balance those who opposed them against each other.  They are all playing "the game" in effect.  Any Monarch who acted like the OP's ideal of a Monarch would be overthrown quickly.  This happened many times on Earth too. 

[metatheurgist]

Nobles are just people. There is no divine right to rule, they are not chosen by god. They are not your betters. That's just religious propaganda. Plenty of people born into wealth and privilege turn out to be decent folk, plenty of underprivileged people are arrogant asshats.

[atlantico]

Bioware writers are as knowledgeable on monarchs and aristocracy as the next guy in N-America. 

 

Which is to say, next to zero. 

[KaiserShep]

I would've been pretty annoyed if my demon-hunting, dragon-slaying protagonist was forced to seem intimidated by some puffy-shirted monarch. And this is aside from the fact that this same protagonist is the leader of a small army that's spreading across two nations in Thedas.