You can get the exact same nuance by doing Viv's companion quest.
Not exactly though. Duke Bastien is a person Vivienne's already known from her past, and shows that she HAD the capacity to care. The nuance with her banter with Cole is that Vivienne STILL HAS the capacity to care, and in fact cares more for the members of the Inquisition than she puts on.
Not exactly though. Duke Bastien is a person Vivienne's already known from her past, and shows that she HAD the capacity to care. The nuance with her banter with Cole is that Vivienne STILL HAS the capacity to care, and in fact cares more for the members of the Inquisition than she puts on.
You can get the exact same nuance by doing Viv's companion quest.
No you don't, there's a difference between the Duke and Cole.
The other issue with "timed" banter is it is frequently interrupted by other NPC conversations starting as you run past them (such as Recruit Whittle as you run past saying something about the blankets/coats every time--he's never interrupted a banter, because I've never had one fire near him, but that's an example of the sort of NPC I mean). Once those banters have started, you never hear them again, and you can't reload and hope it'll repeat.
I am torn. I do like the idea that banter can go off anywhere--but at the same time, there have been a few times when a banter has sounded interesting but I missed the first sentence from someone and would have liked to hear it again (lots of those in Cole/Solas/Dorian banters).
The other issue with "timed" banter is it is frequently interrupted by other NPC conversations starting as you run past them (such as Recruit Whittle as you run past saying something about the blankets/coats every time--he's never interrupted a banter, because I've never had one fire near him, but that's an example of the sort of NPC I mean). Once those banters have started, you never hear them again, and you can't reload and hope it'll repeat.
Oh my God, that happened to me twice in my first playthrough, and given I was either bugged or super unlucky as far as bantering firing went, I was furious.
Side note, but related, because these characters don't go with you: there's a bit of character banter-style development with Josie and Cullen (between the two of them, and also between them and other party NPCs) that plays out entirely through the conversations they have with the people standing next to their desks. Same deal, completely RNG. I have spent a lot of time in Cullen's office (not always on his desk, thank you very much ), but it took the 5th character to see the one in which Cole sends him a message about Uldred, for example. It blew my mind, in context--and also made something Cole says in conversation if you turn him into a Real Boy finally make damned sense (when he says "I can see why some things I might say would bother Cullen" I was... er, what??? until I had RNG throw up the deskside Cole message, then it was, like, "oooooooooh"). There's also a string in which Josie is trying to find the perfect gift for the Commander (his birthday happened a ways before the game starts, in case anyone's wondering), that I've seen what I think might be the entire string.... once?
There are also 2 not-Inquis-related relationships between party members/advisors (if you don't romance them yourself) that will only trigger if you have them around and hear the banter strings--in the case of one coupling (at least, I haven't had the other happen yet), when you get to the end of the banter string, if you are bffs with one (or both) of them, you can then have a really amusing/touching conversation back at Skyhold with one (or both) of them about it (and I had a complete d'aawwww moment with one of them that i didn't see coming because of that). So, yes, banter is important, and it does fill in the characters. It even changes the conversations you have with them both at the post-story after-party. It is not just radio DJs firing, and these things are "hidden" behind the banter, hong--because they don't happen otherwise.
*SNIP*
There are also 2 not-Inquis-related relationships between party members/advisors (if you don't romance them yourself) that will only trigger if you have them around and hear the banter strings--in the case of one coupling (at least, I haven't had the other happen yet), when you get to the end of the banter string, if you are bffs with one (or both) of them, you can then have a really amusing/touching conversation back at Skyhold with one (or both) of them about it (and I had a complete d'aawwww moment with one of them that i didn't see coming because of that). So, yes, banter is important, and it does fill in the characters. It even changes the conversations you have with them both at the post-story after-party. It is not just radio DJs firing, and these things are "hidden" behind the banter, hong--because they don't happen otherwise.
Oooh, now I need to know who these two are. :3
I found out the hard way banter automatically fires if you leave the game idle. My toddler woke from nap time, I go to get a snack ready, and then hear Sera and Bull starting to chat with each other.
Fastest I ran all week.
Oooh, now I need to know who these two are. :3
Okeys. Under tags for those who still want to be surprised....
The OP is correct. the stories and characterisation implicit in the banter are a Bioware strength. They were in both the previous games (it's how you find out Alistair likes to twirl pikes shirtless in his off-hours, or that Wynne had a son taken away from her in DA:O [and you also can't have some in-camp discussions with Sten if he hasn't bantered about it first], and that a crush develops between Carver and Merrill, for example, or that Varric has been paying people to make sure Merrill can wander Kirkwall safely, in DA2). They have taken it to a new level for DA:I.
Side note, but related, because these characters don't go with you: there's a bit of character banter-style development with Josie and Cullen (between the two of them, and also between them and other party NPCs) that plays out entirely through the conversations they have with the people standing next to their desks. Same deal, completely RNG. I have spent a lot of time in Cullen's office...
I've watched the Youtube videos on these 'messenger banters' so I know multiples of them they exist, but outside of Josie, none of them ever trigger for me with anyone else. Every time I go into her office, I can get her chats with her messengers but never any with anyone elses--I never even see the messengers, except rarely in Cullen's office, and they are always silent. I'm on about six play throughs and feel like I'm pretty consistent with constantly visiting everyone. I'm not sure how to trigger these or what.
I've lost count of just how many times banter started at the EXACT MOMENT I got on my mount, making me hear only the first word of it, but seeing large lines of text (play with subtitles on), so I know it's not some kind of random gasp or something
So I've missed out on a lot. It seems like something that could be prevented
This happened to me once, and I quickly dismounted hoping that maybe it might continue, and sure enough it did. I don't know if this is repeatable though, but needless to say I've never mounted again lol.
I agree, character interactions is one of Bioware's strong suits.
I much preferred how they fired in DA:O and DA:2, even if it was just triggered by running over a certain spot. It still felt like it occurred naturally for me, and it also occurred consistently. In DA:I, on the rare occasion a banter did trigger, it always happened at an awkward time (Such as Cassandra talking to Varric about books immediately after a fight just ended, doesn't make sense to me).
So much happens in banter, it's how you determine what companions think of each other and also learn interesting things about companion backgrounds. It was such a disappointment barely hearing any of it actually in game (listened to it all on youtube).
I personally thought they took a step in the right direction with the banter in the DA:2 DLCs. I loved the fact that Hawke had standalone banters with companions, instead of just side comments about other banters. I hoped they would continue that in DA:I, but they didn't.
I don't know how hard this would be to code and implement, but what if they made party banter into an option? Giving us the ability to toggle it on and off, etc. There could even be an option to toggle on and off an option for banter to trigger during a random time (every 5 to 20 minutes or something). It might seem immersion breaking for Cassandra to talk about books with Varric directly after a fight, but - at least for me - having points where banter triggers and going over those spots over and over to hear all the banter is just as immersion breaking.
I really hate this RNG system. I've done two playthroughs and barely heard any of the banter in the game. Feels like I'm playing an unfinished product. Just map the banter to certain points on the map. I don't understand why people would complain about running out of banter. If you run out of banter then its your own damn fault for triggering it constantly. The game still has the same amount of banter regardless. I'd love it if they allowed us to trigger banter manually by pushing a button or walking past a specific location or something. I don't care if it makes things feel unnatural. Unnatural banter timing is a hell of a lot better than barely getting any banter at all...
I've watched the Youtube videos on these 'messenger banters' so I know multiples of them they exist, but outside of Josie, none of them ever trigger for me with anyone else. Every time I go into her office, I can get her chats with her messengers but never any with anyone elses--I never even see the messengers, except rarely in Cullen's office, and they are always silent. I'm on about six play throughs and feel like I'm pretty consistent with constantly visiting everyone. I'm not sure how to trigger these or what.
I found walking up to them makes it more likely, sometimes they say nothing at all. It is usually a few seconds before it triggers if they do.
Probably a function of the same RNG that causes the banter bug.
I just had one next to Josie that was actually re: Leliana. Had never heard that before (I've never seen any from/to Leliana before at all!). Ended with "...and taupe is not a spring colour." Josie's response: "... and taupe absolutely is a spring colour."
I really hate this RNG system. I've done two playthroughs and barely heard any of the banter in the game. Feels like I'm playing an unfinished product. Just map the banter to certain points on the map. I don't understand why people would complain about running out of banter. If you run out of banter then its your own damn fault for triggering it constantly. The game still has the same amount of banter regardless. I'd love it if they allowed us to trigger banter manually by pushing a button or walking past a specific location or something. I don't care if it makes things feel unnatural. Unnatural banter timing is a hell of a lot better than barely getting any banter at all...
For maps like the ones we got here, trigger points would probably not work all that well. They'd have to be much smaller and much more linear, like they were in DA:O and 2, that way trigger points were unavoidable, otherwise, you could go through quite a lot of the game without ever hearing banter at all. Not to say that I'm opposed to trigger points, but as is, I just don't see it benefiting the player much more. Personally I prefer it to be on a timer, perhaps with shorter intervals. Curiously, someone at BioWare has stated on this forum (can't remember who exactly) that banter does not repeat itself once it's cycled through in its entirety for companion combinations, but in my experience this has been false.
The best Banter triggers are in DAO and DA2. If I want to hear banter I go to any of the designated areas and they start talking; and everyone has a crap load -- not just the overrated fan-faves. No going up and down in an elevator 20 times just hear freaking ONE! ME2 barely has any. ME3 screws over Ashley and plays favorites with Garrus, Liara, and Tali. And I can play DAI for 16 hours and maybe get 4 banter conversations.
This is definitely my biggest complaint in DAI (a game which I love) and my biggest worry for the future titles. I never got the infamous banter bug, but even in my completionist playthrough (took 140 hours), I managed to trigger only around 20-25 percent of all banter. A random system simply isn't good. I should be able to hear all banter in every playthrough, regardless of whether I'm dashing through or carefully exploring everything. Knowing the companions better aids my roleplaying choices.
The banter triggering at certain points in previous titles wasn't ideal (because I'd have to exit an area and come back - it was silly), but at least I could be certain that I've seen all the character development in the game. Banter is crucial especially in revealing the relationships between the companion characters.
Using the camping sites to trigger banter would have been an ideal solution and it's a shame it wasn't utilized. That would have also allowed more area specific banter and could have potentially made the huge areas to have more depth and life.
Bioware should not worry that players "abuse" the triggering system. That is our problem. Trust the players a little more. I doubt many would just exhaust 5-6 hours of banters in one go, and if they do, so what. Also, it would be easy to make only a certain amount of banter available with plot point restrictions. DA2 essentially did that with the time leaps.
Just wanted to chime in - 4 playthroughs and I never heard any of the Cassandra/Cullen/Josephine/Leliana messenger banter. Pretty annoying. And definitely have only heard a small portion of banter, never had the bug that I was aware of since I was still getting some and ambient music. I agree with the suggestion of a toggle for frequency, then it's our own damn fault if we exhaust all of it early. Let us experience this full amazing game and all of your hard work in writing these characters!
I also like the suggestion of having banter fire in Skyhold and have the characters move around and hang out with each other. Kind of like how you can stop and listen to the random NPC's there.
I've honestly thought of an idea that can end this banter issue. How about every 20 minutes or so, while exploring, let the party banter be triggered by the player. Like a thing reminding us, banter unlocked, press X to listen. Each sequence of party banter should be sectioned to a specific map. I.e you'll only hear specific bits of dialogue in the Hinterlands and other bits else where. Ambient dialogue such as seeing a dragon fly or killing a boss should be triggered automatically.
You'll unlock more dialogue as you progress further in the game. Here are the positives: a. Creates more agency for the player to choose when to hear banter b. No awkward banter while in battle c. You get the most out of it. d. Riding horses won't be bothersome anymore
What does everyone think? Haha be nice ;-)
I'd like if it worked that way. Then again I would like anything over what we currently have since I had 2 lines of banter over 70 hours.
Someone will complain about a toggle like that though. Its breaking 'muh immersion' because it's not naturally flowing or something.
I haven't heard any banter, barely had maybe 30 occurrences over 8 full playthroughs. I had to look up most of it on youtube. I had to go to a third party website to experience content that I own. 6 hours worth of content. I still can't do the Solas sidequest.Trust me when I say it's hard for me to be motivated to care about any characters when my experiences with them are so limited.
How is this acceptable? For a company that boasts of its developed characters and lore, to overlook this is frankly embarrassing. Or at least they should be embarrassed.
Please, just make your next game without crucial content ruining bugs.
For maps like the ones we got here, trigger points would probably not work all that well. They'd have to be much smaller and much more linear, like they were in DA:O and 2, that way trigger points were unavoidable, otherwise, you could go through quite a lot of the game without ever hearing banter at all. Not to say that I'm opposed to trigger points, but as is, I just don't see it benefiting the player much more. Personally I prefer it to be on a timer, perhaps with shorter intervals. Curiously, someone at BioWare has stated on this forum (can't remember who exactly) that banter does not repeat itself once it's cycled through in its entirety for companion combinations, but in my experience this has been false.
Just make it so you can trigger banter every time you go to a camp or a keep. Or atleast have the banter trigger when you arrive at a new map. That way it would be just like DA2 where you could get banter by walking in lowtown and then going to the hanged man, getting some more banter there and then going back to lowtown or some other area of the city to get more banter. Only this time, they could have the banter trigger as you walk out of the camp. It would be best if they could do that AND have the RNG system. I mean, how often do most players switch maps anyways? I doubt the manual triggering would have a huge impact on their gameplay unless they did it on purpose just to hear banter. I just want the option of triggering banter manually. Sitting through hundreds of hours worth of side quests just to hear all the banter doesn't sound fun at all. I play this game for the story and the character interaction. I'd rather just have access to that content without having to do too much filler material in between.
The advisors needed more banter at the war table imo
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