19 réponses à ce sujet

[stysiaq]

I found it like yesterday or 2 days ago. What exactly "10% to attack" means? Is it a boost to all your damage?

[Kintosi]

A comprehensive list of stats and their effects would be nice. I'm not clear on what exactly attack does. So far, stacking armor penetration has worked well for me. 

[Bocochoco]

Normal attack without ring 200 dmg
With ring 220 dmg

Yep, that easy

[Altruismo]

Normal attack without ring 200 dmg
With ring 220 dmg

Yep, that easy

 

Not.. quite.

Attack % is additive with itself, and then multiplies your weapon damage.

 

You get attack % from your class's primary stat and willpower - there's a link in the combat strategy forum sticky that will lead you to a full breakdown in stats. Your normal attack without the ring probably already has about 20-30% attack from your stats.

To simplify things, say you have +25% attack without the ring and a weapon that does 200 damage.

Without the ring you will do 250 damage (125% of 200 damage)

With the ring you will do 270 damage (135% of 200 damage, not 110% of the 250 damage you do without the ring, which would be 275 damage)

 

Because (almost) all your skills damage is based off your weapon damage with your +attack% included, yes, the ring increases ALL your damage.

[Bocochoco]

K bud
I'm making it simple
Play a solo first room with 200 damage per hit without a ring and you'll do 220 with it on
I've already tested this

I get what you're saying but that's over complicated

It gives you another 10% damage to your total modified damage output
There

[Altruismo]

A comprehensive list of stats and their effects would be nice. I'm not clear on what exactly attack does. So far, stacking armor penetration has worked well for me. 

 

See my earlier post, there's a link in the strategy forum sticky that leads to an extremely comprehensive thread (it's down in the "shiny numbers" section of the sticky.

Armor penetration will increase your damage, but armor values are so low in MP that it's not really worth stacking much, especially compared to attack%.

From memory, some of the most heavily armored units in the MP game still only have about 70 armor, and

most units only have about 20-40 depending on the faction.

Then the problem is that armor doesn't actually do anything complicated, it's just subtracted from the total physical damage of a hit.

 

So... say you're the same dude as in my above post, target has 60 armor and you have a 25% armor penetration ring, you will effectively treat that target as though they had 45 armor.

What does that mean?

Well if you just hit him for 250 damage, his armor will reduce that by 45 (instead of 60) so you'll do 205 damage (a 15 damage bonus from your armor pen)

If you then shield bash him for 750 damage, the armor will still reduce it by 45, you do 705 damage and still only got 15 bonus damage from armor pen.

For comparison, if you put the 10% attack ring on instead of the 25% armor pen ring:

You hit for 270, the full 60 armor reduces that to 210 and you've done 5 more damage than if you had the 25% armor pen.

Shield bash? You hit for 810, the 60 armor reduces that to 750 and you've done 45 more damage than with 25% armor pen.

 

 

I get what you're saying but that's over complicated
 

 

It's not "over" complicated, it's how +attack% works.

[Bocochoco]

See my earlier post, there's a link in the strategy forum sticky that leads to an extremely comprehensive thread (it's down in the "shiny numbers" section of the sticky.
Armor penetration will increase your damage, but armor values are so low in MP that it's not really worth stacking much, especially compared to attack%.
From memory, some of the most heavily armored units in the MP game still only have about 70 armor, and
most units only have about 20-40 depending on the faction.
Then the problem is that armor doesn't actually do anything complicated, it's just subtracted from the total physical damage of a hit.
 
So... say your're the same dude as in my above post, target has 60 armor and you have a 25% armor penetration ring, you will effectively treat that target as though they had 45 armor.
What does that mean?
Well if you just hit him for 250 damage, his armor will reduce that by 45 (instead of 60) so you'll do 205 damage (a 15 damage bonus from your armor pen)
If you then shield bash him for 750 damage, the armor will still reduce it by 45, you do 705 damage and still only got 15 bonus damage from armor pen.
For comparison, if you put the 10% attack ring on instead of the 25% armor pen ring:
You hit for 270, the full 60 armor reduces that to 210 and you've done 5 more damage than if you had the 25% armor pen.
Shield bash? You hit for 810, the 60 armor reduces that to 750 and you've done 45 more damage than with 25% armor pen.
 
 

 
It's not "over" complicated, it's how +attack% works.

Considering the original question it seemed he wanted a simple answer but I concede to your point.
I'm sure the coding looks interesting. Probably more confusing than the worst Microsoft excel formulation

[Robbiesan]

why I leave it to the folks who love them sheets and calculations.  me: so X ring kicks ass.  got it!!

[o_sania]

If you love talking about attack tell me what is better + flank attack % or + attack %! default flank attack +25% So lets compare +10% to attack or +10% to flank damage. In my opinion attack % win. But i cant anderstand this:

Crafting Priority:

3% Flanking Dmg > 1.75% Attack > 3% Armor Pen > 1.75% Crit Chance = 1.75 Dexterity (rogue) >1.75 Willpower > 1.75 Magic (mage) = 1.75Strength (warrior) > > 1.75 Cunning > 3% Crit Dmg > 3% Barrier Dmg > 3% Guard Dmg

Gear Equivalents:

• 0.67% Flanking Dmg
• 1% Attack (benchmark)
• 2% Armor Pen
• 1.6% Crit Chance
• 1.5 Dexterity
• 2 Willpower/Strength/Magic
• 3.2 Cunning
• 7% Crit Dmg

Why flank dmg win over attack? Аm i wrong?

[Bocochoco]

If you love talking about attack tell me what is better + flank attack % or + attack %! default flank attack +25% So lets compare +10% to attack or +10% to flank damage. In my opinion attack % win. But i cant anderstand this:
Crafting Priority:
3% Flanking Dmg > 1.75% Attack > 3% Armor Pen > 1.75% Crit Chance = 1.75 Dexterity (rogue) >1.75 Willpower > 1.75 Magic (mage) = 1.75Strength (warrior) > > 1.75 Cunning > 3% Crit Dmg > 3% Barrier Dmg > 3% Guard Dmg
Gear Equivalents:

• 0.67% Flanking Dmg
• 1% Attack (benchmark)
• 2% Armor Pen
• 1.6% Crit Chance
• 1.5 Dexterity
• 2 Willpower/Strength/Magic
• 3.2 Cunning
• 7% Crit Dmg

Why flank dmg win over attack? Аm i wrong?

Only of the flank damage percentage is 50% more than the attack % due to the mechanics and only for characters who are not range reliant as a pull should have 3/4 of the enemies down by the time they reach you. If you are melee you will have access to the flank more than 50% of the time

[Infinity61]

armor pen, LOL

[Bocochoco]

armor pen, LOL

I don't get it

[Robbiesan]

armor pen, LOL

 

 

I don't get it

 

 

Riddle solved!!

 

[Altruismo]

Why flank dmg win over attack? Аm i wrong?

 

+Flank damage, is "superior" to +attack% because it's multiplicative with attack, not additive, and your +attack% is not zero. It's also applied before armor reduction, not after like attack% (a mistake I was making in my earlier posts which means armor pen is a bit better than I thought, but still not good ).

 

To make more sense, I'll use the same example character as I was in the previous posts.

Has a 200 damage weapon, has +25% attack, and +25% flanking damage without any rings on. He can chose between a +10% attack ring, or a +10% flanking damage ring.

 

So if he attacks someone with 50 armor from behind (flanking):

Wearing the +10% attack ring he does 200 + 25% flanking bonus (250) - 50 armor (200) + 35% attack = 270

Wearing the +10% flanking ring he does 200 + 35% flanking bonus (270) - 50 armor (220) + 25% attack  = 275

 

Simply put, as long as the target has more than 1 armor, and you can flank, you will get more damage from  bonus flank% than you will from bonus attack% of the same value.

 

It's very important to remember, as pointed out by Bocochoco, that you only get a flank damage bonus when you can actually flank, so it's only really melee rogues (Assassin/Alchemist) that can take full advantage of it.

If you're not one of those two classes, +attack% is better for you at the same % value.

 

Another thing that makes flanking more attractive to rogues is it's often a higher % for the same level item. For example the superb flanking ring is +20% while the superb attack ring is only 10%

[Bocochoco]

Riddle solved!!
 

Seems like it would write flawlessly and balanced

[Stinja]

It's very important to remember, as pointed out by Bocochoco, that you only get a flank damage bonus when you can actually flank, so it's only really melee rogues (Assassin/Alchemist) that can take full advantage of it.

If you're not one of those two classes, +attack% is better for you at the same % value.

 

Is it the relative position of you and the enemy, or your attack and the enemy?

 

As i kinda assumed if i'm a mage facing a shield guy, and i cast an AoE spell behind him, hitting his rear - this counts as a flanking attack.

[Bocochoco]

Is it the relative position of you and the enemy, or your attack and the enemy?
 
As i kinda assumed if i'm a mage facing a shield guy, and i cast an AoE spell behind him, hitting his rear - this counts as a flanking attack.

This is a good question.

[o_sania]

As i remember i read somewhere that flank dont stack with magic.

[Altruismo]

Is it the relative position of you and the enemy, or your attack and the enemy?

 

As i kinda assumed if i'm a mage facing a shield guy, and i cast an AoE spell behind him, hitting his rear - this counts as a flanking attack.

 

It is a good question, I have no idea (haven't tested it).

My gut feeling would be that o_sania is correct though.

[BraveLToaster]

Flank damage comes in greater magnitude on equivalent tier crafting materials, which is why it's listed as 3%>1.75%.  A tier 3 gives 1.75% attack or 3% flanking (offense vs utility slots though, so it's not really an issue in MP with limited schematics).