And yet as Divine she gives mages far more freedom and responsibility than ever before, and allows them positions in the Chantry. Leliana goes beyond that by dismantling the whole system cold turkey.
A statement that is immediately negated by Vivienne crushing their attempt at free choice with the College.
That didn't happen in my epilogue. My epilogue focused on the templars choosing to remain separate from the Chantry and part of the Inquisition because I conscripted them.
It may be in an epilogue where you ally or conscript the mages and Vivienne is Divine, so I guess it depends on the circumstances and the world state the Inquisitor helps create that leads to what kind of Divine she is.
To quote the epilogue slides relating to how she goes about business;
"Three revolts follow in quick succession, and her response is immediate and vicious. For months, chaos reigns.
To the surprise of many she reinstates the Circle of Mages and creates a Templar Order firmly leashed to her hand. Mages quickly rise in the new Circle, having more freedom and responsibility than ever before... even if all the true power lies with her."
Sounds like the status quo has indeed been maintained and all the problems that caused the Mage-Templar conflict in the first place have been ignored in favour of keeping things exactly the way they were before. The only difference is that now she has Mages clamouring to please her to gain more freedoms and has made it so that the Templars are firmly under her heel.
Which just makes me think that she's less the new Divine and more the first Archon of the South.
Which just makes me think that she's less the new Divine and more the first Archon of the South.
Well, or at least the first "Black Divine" of the south.
What an amazing double entendre.
Well, or at least the first "Black Divine" of the south.
What an amazing double entendre.
I agree, what an amazing coincidence... and good wordplay!
It is amusing how in her banter with Dorian, she often comes across as more "Tevinter" than he does?
It is amusing how in her banter with Dorian, she often comes across as more "Tevinter" than he does?
Yeah, she's totally a magister on the inside.
Leliana wants everybody in the world to convert, and says as much. So... that's always been the official position of the Andrastian Chantry, but the thought of what her position could lead to makes me queasy. Not everybody wants what the Chantry is selling, and Leliana doesn't seem to understand that. She's also way, way more cynical about her faith than she used to be and doesn't have a problem with offing people who threaten the institutions she protects, or flat out lying to defend her secrets, which puts her version of the Chantry about one bad day away from piking the heads of heretics and denying reality to serve its own ends. Sunshine and rainbows make great cover for zealotry. She also expresses a strong desire to become the Divine, which scares me. Nobody should want that kind of power. I'd rather see her quietly retire and take up nug breeding as a hobby.
Cassandra is willing to accept that some folks just aren't interested in her faith. I was way more comfortable putting her in the driver's seat, knowing that she would work on putting her own house in order and not try to play "let's go convert all the heathens!" She has a lot of firsthand experience with zealots who got far too wrapped up in their faith to do what was right, and I think she stands a better chance than Leliana of not falling into that trap. She also comes from a formal position within the Chantry heirarchy- after Lucius bites it, she's effectively the senior surviving Seeker, and instead of clamping down she actually starts airing her order's dirty laundry as soon as she takes possession of the Big Book O'Secrets. That was pretty encouraging.
Vivienne... I think she'd be the most technically competent as Divine (being an administrator already in her position as First Enchanter), however I just couldn't convince myself that the Chantry would accept a mage as its leader. Yeah, the game lets you do it, but it goes against all of the established lore. She's also got this disturbing little "I know better than everyone else about everything" bit going on. Plus... I don't know about anyone else, but when I talked to Vivienne about who should be the next Divine, she was pretty dead set on putting Cassandra in the Big Chair. Which made it doubly weird when the "support Vivienne as next Divine" operation then appeared on my war table, because nobody including Viv herself had even mentioned the possibility.
So... yeah. Cassandra FTW. She's got insider knowledge and strong faith coupled with a healthy sense of restraint and at least a willingness to understand other beliefs before she dismisses them and the people who hold them. She'll be the most willing to take good advice from her staff, but at the same time be willing to knock her advisors' skulls together when they go too far. IMO she's the best and safest choice that the rest of the world outside the Chantry can also coexist peacefully with.
To quote the epilogue slides relating to how she goes about business;
"Three revolts follow in quick succession, and her response is immediate and vicious. For months, chaos reigns.
To the surprise of many she reinstates the Circle of Mages and creates a Templar Order firmly leashed to her hand. Mages quickly rise in the new Circle, having more freedom and responsibility than ever before... even if all the true power lies with her."
Sounds like the status quo has indeed been maintained and all the problems that caused the Mage-Templar conflict in the first place have been ignored in favour of keeping things exactly the way they were before. The only difference is that now she has Mages clamouring to please her to gain more freedoms and has made it so that the Templars are firmly under her heel.
Which just makes me think that she's less the new Divine and more the first Archon of the South.
Vivienne... I think she'd be the most technically competent as Divine (being an administrator already in her position as First Enchanter), however I just couldn't convince myself that the Chantry would accept a mage as its leader. Yeah, the game lets you do it, but it goes against all of the established lore. She's also got this disturbing little "I know better than everyone else about everything" bit going on. Plus... I don't know about anyone else, but when I talked to Vivienne about who should be the next Divine, she was pretty dead set on putting Cassandra in the Big Chair. Which made it doubly weird when the "support Vivienne as next Divine" operation then appeared on my war table, because nobody including Viv herself had even mentioned the possibility.
Agreed. I know many people have a lot of problems with Lelianna's reign as Divine (many concerns I share myself), but I honestly find Vivienne even more ridiculous by comparison.
Which makes her my number one candidate.
So... yeah. Cassandra FTW. She's got insider knowledge and strong faith coupled with a healthy sense of restraint and at least a willingness to understand other beliefs before she dismisses them and the people who hold them. She'll be the most willing to take good advice from her staff, but at the same time be willing to knock her advisors' skulls together when they go too far. IMO she's the best and safest choice that the rest of the world outside the Chantry can also coexist peacefully with.
I can agree with this. But I think a divine Cass needs a Leliana to handle some of the dirty work like Justinia used Leliana. Someone like Leliana is very helpful to have near the top but not at the top.
I agree, what an amazing coincidence... and good wordplay!
It is amusing how in her banter with Dorian, she often comes across as more "Tevinter" than he does?
Well, except Vivienne recognizes that mages are potentially very dangerous. She reinstates the Templar order to balance the Circle.
Vivienne's not interested in mage rule. just her rule 
Sorry if the game already explained this and I just somehow over looked it but how is Vivienne even a candidate? I understand how Cassandra and Leliana are but I'm rather confused on how Vivienne can even be considered as the next Divine by the Chantry even with the Inquisitor backing her up.
Sorry if the game already explained this and I just somehow over looked it but how is Vivienne even a candidate? I understand how Cassandra and Leliana are but I'm rather confused on how Vivienne can even be considered as the next Divine by the Chantry even with the Inquisitor backing her up.
She plays The Game and used her connections to the Grand Clerics and your position as Herald of Andraste to sway favor to her.
Well, except Vivienne recognizes that mages are potentially very dangerous. She reinstates the Templar order to balance the Circle.
Vivienne's not interested in mage rule. just her rule
I imagine most political figures in Tevinter don't care for disorderly conduct or potential competitors, either.
Leliana wants everybody in the world to convert, and says as much. So... that's always been the official position of the Andrastian Chantry, but the thought of what her position could lead to makes me queasy. Not everybody wants what the Chantry is selling, and Leliana doesn't seem to understand that. She's also way, way more cynical about her faith than she used to be and doesn't have a problem with offing people who threaten the institutions she protects, or flat out lying to defend her secrets, which puts her version of the Chantry about one bad day away from piking the heads of heretics and denying reality to serve its own ends. Sunshine and rainbows make great cover for zealotry. She also expresses a strong desire to become the Divine, which scares me. Nobody should want that kind of power. I'd rather see her quietly retire and take up nug breeding as a hobby.
Cassandra is willing to accept that some folks just aren't interested in her faith. I was way more comfortable putting her in the driver's seat, knowing that she would work on putting her own house in order and not try to play "let's go convert all the heathens!" She has a lot of firsthand experience with zealots who got far too wrapped up in their faith to do what was right, and I think she stands a better chance than Leliana of not falling into that trap. She also comes from a formal position within the Chantry heirarchy- after Lucius bites it, she's effectively the senior surviving Seeker, and instead of clamping down she actually starts airing her order's dirty laundry as soon as she takes possession of the Big Book O'Secrets. That was pretty encouraging.
Vivienne... I think she'd be the most technically competent as Divine (being an administrator already in her position as First Enchanter), however I just couldn't convince myself that the Chantry would accept a mage as its leader. Yeah, the game lets you do it, but it goes against all of the established lore. She's also got this disturbing little "I know better than everyone else about everything" bit going on. Plus... I don't know about anyone else, but when I talked to Vivienne about who should be the next Divine, she was pretty dead set on putting Cassandra in the Big Chair. Which made it doubly weird when the "support Vivienne as next Divine" operation then appeared on my war table, because nobody including Viv herself had even mentioned the possibility.
So... yeah. Cassandra FTW. She's got insider knowledge and strong faith coupled with a healthy sense of restraint and at least a willingness to understand other beliefs before she dismisses them and the people who hold them. She'll be the most willing to take good advice from her staff, but at the same time be willing to knock her advisors' skulls together when they go too far. IMO she's the best and safest choice that the rest of the world outside the Chantry can also coexist peacefully with.
You do realize that Vivienne also wants to be divine despite her not saying so. If she didn't, explain why she is very clearly trying to gather favor with voters that decide the Divine. Guess she really did join the Inquisition for power.
Edit: ninja'd
Sorry if the game already explained this and I just somehow over looked it but how is Vivienne even a candidate? I understand how Cassandra and Leliana are but I'm rather confused on how Vivienne can even be considered as the next Divine by the Chantry even with the Inquisitor backing her up.
Politics, blackmail and networking... (which is the Game in a nutshell).
It helps that Duke Bastien, with whom she was knocking boots with, was pretty much the leader of the Council of Heralds, who hold a lot of sway in Orlesian politics. She's not only got contacts with them, but Bastien's son has now inherited his father's position on the Council and given how much she's apparently worked to forge a good relationship with Bastien's kids, he'd most likely be amenable when it came to backing her play?
Honestly, I could see the Inquisitor becoming Divine Heretic (which the writers apparently considered) before her given all you do, but Vivienne is apparently the most they're willing to lore-break at the moment?
Politics, blackmail and networking... (which is the Game in a nutshell).
It helps that Duke Bastien, with whom she was knocking boots with, was pretty much the leader of the Council of Heralds, who hold a lot of sway in Orlesian politics. She's not only got contacts with them, but Bastien's son has now inherited his father's position on the Council and is likely willing to back her play?
Honestly, I could see the Inquisitor becoming Divine Heretic (which the writers apparently considered) before her given all you do, but Vivienne is apparently the most they're willing to lore-break at the moment?
Apparently they're OK with the Grand Clerics deciding to elect a mage divine despite their no doubt being mage haters yet apparently mages becoming accepted in Leliana's ending is too much for them. Wonder how many would still choose her if she was pro-mage.
My Inquisitor and Vivienne as Divine Victoria will bring a new age for Thedas! A ageos prosperity for mudanes andmages alike! Those who opposes us, will be utterly crushed, those who follow us shall bask in our glory!
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