480 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

And again, I'm not arguing with you that Bioware has been making this move. It's just that 1)) they said they WEREN'T making that move with DA:I, talking about how you can play the game entirely in tactical mode with no issues, so Bioware was making a course correction of the above stated trends and 2)that this direction, while in retrospect was obviously linear, could have been misinterpreted along the way. Not that it wasn't linear, just that fans can't be blamed for... you know, believing Bioware when they said they weren't doing what they were doing.

 

 

 

And I would agree, had that been your initial argument. The original post to which I responded involved you mentioning KotOR, NwN, and DA:O in contrast to Jade Empire, indicating that you were using past games as an indicator of future content, which based on Bioware's history I think is questionable. You specifically referred to Jade Empire as the "aberration" while ignoring ME1 and Bioware's general direction. 

 

I'm not against you pointing to the "spiritual successor" argument in regard to DA:O, even if I think it's an overused catch-phrase provided by Bioware themselves and which they've since abandoned. What I'm illustrating is that their past games don't appear to reveal the pattern you're describing in regard to game content. Jade Empire really isn't the outlier here in terms of paradigm shift, DA:O is. 

[Fast Jimmy]

And I would agree, had that been your initial argument. The original post to which I responded involved you mentioning KotOR, NwN, and DA:O in contrast to Jade Empire, indicating that you were using past games as an indicator of future content, which based on Bioware's history I think is questionable. You specifically referred to Jade Empire as the "aberration" while ignoring ME1 and Bioware's general direction.

I'm not against you pointing to the "spiritual successor" argument in regard to DA:O, even if I think it's an overused catch-phrase provided by Bioware themselves and which they've since abandoned. What I'm illustrating is that their past games don't appear to reveal the pattern you're describing in regard to game content. Jade Empire really isn't the outlier here in terms of paradigm shift, DA:O is.

<sigh>

Okay, you win. Everyone who didn't expect the DA series to move to an ARPG model was dumb.

[Morroian]

<sigh>

Okay, you win. Everyone who didn't expect the DA series to move to an ARPG model was dumb.

 

I thought there were was clear pattern along those lines but did take BW statements regarding DAI at face value that they were pulling back from that which makes my disappointment in the game more acute. Statements as far back as the DA2 Legacy DLC indicated that they wanted to concentrate on the tactical party based aspect for the franchise. Like you I think the action based elements conflict with the tactical party based elements and juxtaposing the 2 was always doomed to failure.

 

As an aside the discussion over the last few pages is really good and I hope the devs are reading it.

[mindw0rk]

And how many of those ended up being deeply disappointed and feeling they wasted their money? Honestly, after all the hype and preview videos I felt cheated getting this less then mediocre boring singleplayer MMO. Whatever. At least there are studios like CD Project Red and Bethesda that going for quality and real RPG experience, then for milking some quick bucks.

[In Exile]

Anyone remember if ME1 got a lot of grief for these cuts? Since there wasn't a PC version for a while I wasn't paying much attention to it at launch.

There was some rage and Bioware kind of pretend for a while the feature didn't exist. The interrupts weren't all that popular but the change to the combat caused a pretty big furor. Lots of jokes about Jack Bauer in space" which was the awesome-button equivalent meme and lots of accusations that Bioware lied about making the spiritual successor to KoTOR since we could no longer control the whole party.

It was like DAO after release in terms of volume. So some dissatisfaction but not DA2 or ME3 level rage. Kind of like now with DAI but more muted. The side quests were the big focus, exactly like now.

In fact I'd say the DAI reception has overall been pretty much like ME1 except with more critical success.

[bluebullets]

I'm disappointed that it was this successful. the game was average at best with the banter bugs, lame story, crappy PC gameplay, and lack of soul.

 

I'd still buy it if I could go back, and it wsworth 60 bucks, but I do not want to applaud them. The effort was good with theworld, but it lacked substance and soul and it sucks because this data shows them that this is what people want.

 

I enjoyed DA2 more. at least hawke had a personality and it was still DA

[Thatkat09]

I'm disappointed that it was this successful. the game was average at best with the banter bugs, lame story, crappy PC gameplay, and lack of soul.

 

I'd still buy it if I could go back, and it wsworth 60 bucks, but I do not want to applaud them. The effort was good with theworld, but it lacked substance and soul and it sucks because this data shows them that this is what people want.

 

I enjoyed DA2 more. at least hawke had a personality and it was still DA

 

What an entitled attitude to have. You have a low opinion of DA:I, that means the good people at Bioware should suffer? Disgusting. 

[In Exile]

I'm disappointed that it was this successful. the game was average at best with the banter bugs, lame story, crappy PC gameplay, and lack of soul.

I'd still buy it if I could go back, and it wsworth 60 bucks, but I do not want to applaud them. The effort was good with theworld, but it lacked substance and soul and it sucks because this data shows them that this is what people want.

I enjoyed DA2 more. at least hawke had a personality and it was still DA

You got your moneys worth, you'd buy it again ... but you want it to fail a bit more? Huh?

[Hiemoth]

I felt an urge to comment on the games losing complexity issue, as it something I always find to be a fascinating argument while also completely disagreeing with it. For example, I felt ME3 was far more complex in character development, encounter design and inventory control than ME1 was, and actually thought it was one of the most complex games from Bioware. And while I personally felt DAI to be less complex in design than its predecessors, I also did feel DA2 was much more complex in several ways than DAO was. And all of the games I just listed were for me much more complex than BG games were as the AD&D system wasn't just horrible, it failed completely when it came to higher levels. And those are just to name BW games.

 

I do not want to use the argument nostalgia, partially because it has been used so much, but also because I am not confident it is the right word for it. For me, it becomes about perception and how these things have been thought of. For example, because ME3 had such a different approach than many games prior to it, I always felt what it did was far too easily dismissed because it didn't fit with some people's mental image of complexity. It was a shooter, thus it was impossible for it to be complex. The same with DA2, characters move fast and have fancy moves, thus it impossible for it to be complex. This is just to kind of summarize the attitude towards those games I constantly ran across.

 

This isn't to say that people can't dislike those games or like the older games for what they were, it is just that I always find myself hoping these discussions could be had without resorting to the complexity term as not only is it an inherently condescending to discuss how you just like games a little bit more complex than modern weaklings, it often derails the discussion as it becomes about what is and is not complex instead of discussing the exact features.

[Hiemoth]

<sigh>

Okay, you win. Everyone who didn't expect the DA series to move to an ARPG model was dumb.

 

I think the issue here is that the ARPG. I mean, I agree that Bioware's direction has always been towards a more cinematic approach to the games and that can be seen in the development, but I still feel it is really far-fetched to call games like DA2 or DAI as action RPGs, any more so than it is to call KOTOR that. For ME game series it is more apt, although even with them I would argue that they are something very different.

 

So the issue isn't that everyone expected them to move toward ARPG model, but rather people disagree that they have moved to a ARPG model.

[KaiserShep]

I'd still buy it if I could go back, and it wsworth 60 bucks, but I do not want to applaud them.

 

You don't want to applaud them, but saying that you don't regret purchasing it and that it was worth the money does exactly that. Congrats. You failed at allowing them to fail!

[Thatkat09]

A recurring theme i've noticed on this forum is "Game did not cater to my personal tastes, that means its horrible and bioware deserves to fail." Fanbases can be some of the most spiteful and hateful groups on the internet.

[bluebullets]

You got your moneys worth, you'd buy it again ... but you want it to fail a bit more? Huh?

Welcome to capitalism. It was an average game, and $60 cannot buy me a weeks worth of food- it is nothing.

 

So will spend $60 on an average game? Yes. Will I applaud it or hope it sells this well? No.

 

By giving them all the great sales, you tell them "atta boy. you did it right. this is what we want. an average game with no substance"

 

I will not be buying da4 based on da:i. I'll just replay DA:O when I want dragon age

[Thatkat09]

Welcome to capitalism. It was an average game, and $60 cannot buy me a weeks worth of food- it is nothing.

 

So will spend $60 on an average game? Yes. Will I applaud it or hope it sells this well? No.

 

By giving them all the great sales, you tell them "atta boy. you did it right. this is what we want. an average game with no substance"

 

I will not be buying da4 based on da:i. I'll just replay DA:O when I want dragon age

 

For many of us, they did just that. Personal tastes, you'd do well to add "in my opinion" to your post by the way. 

[bluebullets]

For many of us, they did just that. Personal tastes, you'd do well to add "in my opinion" to your post by the way. 

Idk how anyone can think that. Just go play WoW. wow does it better.

[KaiserShep]

WoW does what better though? I doubt WoW has even a single character worth caring about, let alone a universe that I give a biletoad's duodenum about.

[Aimi]

WoW does what better though? I doubt WoW has even a single character worth caring about, let alone a universe that I give a biletoad's duodenum about.

Easier to farm gold in WoW though, with the dupe trick patched out of DA:I.

[Aaleel]

Welcome to capitalism. It was an average game, and $60 cannot buy me a weeks worth of food- it is nothing.

 

So will spend $60 on an average game? Yes. Will I applaud it or hope it sells this well? No.

 

By giving them all the great sales, you tell them "atta boy. you did it right. this is what we want. an average game with no substance"

 

I will not be buying da4 based on da:i. I'll just replay DA:O when I want dragon age

 

This makes no sense to me.  How much something costs has nothing to do with whether it was worth the money.  Did you get the value that you thought you were going to get for what you paid, whether it be $60 or $20.  If I barely make it through one playthrough of an RPG, and have no desire to play it again, I didn't get my money's worth for $60. I don't see how anyone can say they did.   

 

I paid $50 for DA2 and it didn't find it worth half that amount.

 

DA:I did give me some of things I wanted, and seeing I'm on my 3rd playthrough it was well worth the money for me based on the on value I got out of it.  But YMMV, obviously it did based on what you were looking for.

[KaiserShep]

Easier to farm gold in WoW though, with the dupe trick patched out of DA:I.

Yeah, rolling in fat stacks wasn't exactly my Inquisitor's forte. All her sovereigns were tied up in equipment schematics and petit fours, of course anything other than the ones with deep mushroom and anise in them.

[Aren]

EA's expectations... oh, yeah, gonna believe it. Developers talked so much about copying Skyrim that I highly doubt they were aiming at anything short of at least half of Skyrim sales. Secretely they probably thought of selling the same of even more.

But well, look at DA2 and DAI, compare their sales, I can't for the life of me think they spent nearly the same proportion in budget. Can you honestly believe that the money they spent in 4 years of development compared to DA2 short development is proportional to the sales? I can't.

Despite the reasonable criticism,  DAII was a commercial success  the reason of why DAI come out with this Huge development.

[Aimi]

All her sovereigns were tied up in equipment schematics and petit fours, of course anything other than the ones with deep mushroom and anise in them.

*giggles uncontrollably*

[Thatkat09]

Idk how anyone can think that. Just go play WoW. wow does it better.

 

"Idk how anyone can have a differing opinion from my own..."
 

[line_genrou]

Despite the reasonable criticism,  DAII was a commercial success  the reason of why DAI come out with this Huge development.

 Really? I thought DA2 was a flop compared to DAO

[In Exile]

Easier to farm gold in WoW though, with the dupe trick patched out of DA:I.

Why would you want to farm gold in DAI? There are like 9-12 schematics worth buying and there's more than enough money for it.

[Aimi]

Why would you want to farm gold in DAI? There are like 9-12 schematics worth buying and there's more than enough money for it.

gotta catch 'em all