480 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

It wasn't a bad quarter at all for them. EA's financials looked solid. That doesn't mean DA:I did well or is the reason for it.

The problem with giving sales of one title is that you then have to to give sales for all titles. Everyone knows Madden and FIFA sold very, very well, as EA had already confirmed it prior to the call.

If everyone knows some of your titles did really well and you want to hide that another of your titles is lackluster, then not revealing any sales numbers is the most obvious strategy I can think of. Again - EA hasn't shied from the practice in the past when they had all good numbers to report. It's only when there aren't major releases or underwhelming performances that they remain silent.

 

They confirmed on Gamespot that the statement is based on unit sold, but that they (as ever) don't disclose the actual numbers. Is there any major pubblisher that actually discloses those numbers anyway? The most they say is how profitable the game was. I think only Ubisoft released numbers for Assassin's Creed games.

 

Look, we can extrapolate all day long. EA says that the game exceeded expectations and that, sales-wise, it's Bioware's biggest launch ever. If you want to believe it,s all a hoax and that the game is a financial disaster, well be my guest, I can't stop you. But it seems like EA are the best source about such things, regardless of any feelings one might have towards them.

[Fast Jimmy]

EA has actually confirmed that their statement on the most successful launch was based on units sold, but did not give the exact number. Which, to repeat, almost no of the large publishers do.

http://www.pcgamer.c...ioware-history/

Well... to counter your last argument, other publishers do, and EA does as well. One need only look at some of their 2014 Financials to shut down that line of argument.

However, this is the first real evidence I've seen that DA:I sold well. If they are staking reputation and possible SEC fines on clarifying that DA:I sold more units than any other Bioware game, then I'll accept that. Surprised as heck, but no one is stupid enough to hang themselves to cover up mediocre performances.

Well, tip of the hat, BW. I'm extremely baffled that you apparently have one of the highest rates of digital download sales in the entire AAA industry, but good job. I'm still not sure why EA would willfully obscure that or the numbers, but short of a federal indictment, I will believe them.

[Hiemoth]

Well... to counter your last argument, other publishers do, and EA does as well. One need only look at some of their 2014 Financials to shut down that line of argument.

However, this is the first real evidence I've seen that DA:I sold well. If they are staking reputation and possible SEC fines on clarifying that DA:I sold more units than any other Bioware game, then I'll accept that. Surprised as heck, but no one is stupid enough to hang themselves to cover up mediocre performances.

Well, tip of the hat, BW. I'm extremely baffled that you apparently have one of the highest rates of digital download sales in the entire AAA industry, but good job. I'm still not sure why EA would willfully obscure that or the numbers, but short of a federal indictment, I will believe them.

 

I thought they usually give out the numbers pretty long after the publication, as they want the largest number available floating around, not when their still pushing the actual title?

[Fast Jimmy]

I thought they usually give out the numbers pretty long after the publication, as they want the largest number available floating around, not when their still pushing the actual title?

Just in a cursory scan, here is a earnings call where they touted SimCity's 1.4M units sold just four weeks after its release.

http://files.shareho...lides_FINAL.pdf

It's not unheard of for EA to do this, nor any other publisher. That being said - they didn't reveal the numbers, but did confirm that it was the most units sold for any Bioware release. That is good enough for me, but again has me scratching my head on why there would be an obscene amount of digital downloads.

[Mummy22kids]

As a seamstress and Cosplay designer I hate the metal on the Jammies. It looks wrong....  comfortable and I say COMFORTABLE jammies or house clothes seldom have princess cut seams, Mandarin collars and metal closures.

 

Never thought of it that way.

[Andraste_Reborn]

 

That is good enough for me, but again has me scratching my head on why there would be an obscene amount of digital downloads.

 

Maybe a lot of people on the next gen consoles have completely switched over to digital downloads with their new machines?

[Fast Jimmy]

Maybe a lot of people on the next gen consoles have completely switched over to digital downloads with their new machines?

That's the only explanation I can think of. In which case, there is going to be a LOT more pressure on publishers to be more candid with numbers during earnings calls from investors if sources like NPD are becoming nearly unreliable.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Maybe a lot of people on the next gen consoles have completely switched over to digital downloads with their new machines?

 

I don't see why it wouldn't be the case. The newer consoles are PCs in all but name. And console users are just as hungry for the convenience of digital download as PC users are, I'd wager, not to mention it's possible that their built-in marketplaces have discounts as well (I don't know, I own no console newer than a Nintendo 64).

 

Hell, in the very same earnings report, EA says that digital sales have actually surpassed retail sales across their entire product line (unless I misread). Digital is becoming bigger and bigger, and sources like VGChartz and NPD more and more unreliable.

[In Exile]

Well... to counter your last argument, other publishers do, and EA does as well. One need only look at some of their 2014 Financials to shut down that line of argument.

However, this is the first real evidence I've seen that DA:I sold well. If they are staking reputation and possible SEC fines on clarifying that DA:I sold more units than any other Bioware game, then I'll accept that. Surprised as heck, but no one is stupid enough to hang themselves to cover up mediocre performances.

Well, tip of the hat, BW. I'm extremely baffled that you apparently have one of the highest rates of digital download sales in the entire AAA industry, but good job. I'm still not sure why EA would willfully obscure that or the numbers, but short of a federal indictment, I will believe them.

There are lots of reasons why company would avoid releasing sales #s. My guess is that historic Bioware numbers are actually underwhelming on the scale that DAI is playing (e.g. vs Skyrim, AC or Far Cry) and that the other genre titles outsold it.

To non-gamers marketing DAI as a resounding success if it undersold FIFA and Madden would be nonsensical. It's like pushing a niche product to the forefront.

[Fast Jimmy]

I don't see why it wouldn't be the case. The newer consoles are PCs in all but name. And console users are just as hungry for the convenience of digital download as PC users are, I'd wager, not to mention it's possible that their built-in marketplaces have discounts as well (I don't know, I own no console newer than a Nintendo 64).

Hell, in the very same earnings report, EA says that digital sales have actually surpassed retail sales across their entire product line (unless I misread). Digital is becoming bigger and bigger, and sources like VGChartz and NPD more and more unreliable.

Yes, but their numbers indicate that actual full game downloads are still not the norm. The bulk of the digital revenue came from mobile, microtransactions and subscription services, not downloaded games.

[Fast Jimmy]

There are lots of reasons why company would avoid releasing sales #s. My guess is that historic Bioware numbers are actually underwhelming on the scale that DAI is playing (e.g. vs Skyrim, AC or Far Cry) and that the other genre titles outsold it.

To non-gamers marketing DAI as a resounding success if it undersold FIFA and Madden would be nonsensical. It's like pushing a niche product to the forefront.

Thing is... they DID push DA:I to the forefront. It was mentioned as one of the first topics of discussion and it was the attribution to exceeding quarterly margins past previous guidance. They didn't push it to the front with a numbers reveal, but it was one of the focal points of the call.

[In Exile]

Thing is... they DID push DA:I to the forefront. It was mentioned as one of the first topics of discussion and it was the attribution to exceeding quarterly margins past previous guidance. They didn't push it to the front with a numbers reveal, but it was one of the focal points of the call.

DAI has had a lot of critical success. Its a high profile title regardless of sales. If they don't push it then it looks like a commercial flop. But commercially successful is pretty subjective - e.g. people here saying outsold or on par with DAO would not be a sign DAI was a success. So #s might also make it flop. They're playing the expectations game. Its like what you see on the MD&A of a junior mining company when they're talking about their exploration prospect.

[laudable11]

Congratulations Bioware.

Mediocrity has won.

[SofaJockey]

Maybe a lot of people on the next gen consoles have completely switched over to digital downloads with their new machines?

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

XB1 made digital download very convenient.

I had it preloaded and ready to play at 12.01 on launch day.

Not waiting for some courier to turn up...

 

EDIT

oh - and Apple don't break down what sold what and how it breaks down,

why should they and why should anyone else, that's competitive information.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Yes, but their numbers indicate that actual full game downloads are still not the norm. The bulk of the digital revenue came from mobile, microtransactions and subscription services, not downloaded games.

 

It doesn't have to be the norm to be an important part of sales, and make websites that estimate retail sales very unreliable at best. Even if (pulling a number outta my ass) 30% of all sales are digital, it's still not the norm, but it can easily be significant enough to make a difference between a game not selling enough and a game (in EA's own words) exceeding expectations.

 

I also have a bit of a feeling that, since Bioware went into the open world route, some people got into their heads that EA expected Skyrim's numbers, Which seems very unlikely to me; EA does have a tendency to shoot for the stars and crash-land on the moon, but I don't think they believed the series would go from selling 3-4 million copies per entry to Skyrim's, what, 15 millions I think? They saw the price of being overly ambitious with Dead Space 3, methinks.

[Fast Jimmy]

It doesn't have to be the norm to be an important part of sales, and make websites that estimate retail sales very unreliable at best. Even if (pulling a number outta my ass) 30% of all sales are digital, it's still not the norm, but it can easily be significant enough to make a difference between a game not selling enough and a game (in EA's own words) exceeding expectations.

The thing is... 30% WOULD be huge... yet still not even NEAR enough to explain the difference between EA's numbers and retail. NPD projects 2.5 million for DA:I from retail. Adding in 20% for digital downloads (the rough average for games on all platforms these days) and that takes it to 3.1M, the number people have been shooting around as the likely DA:I number of units sold )and not that much higher than DA2). If you bump this up to 30%, you are up to 4M... still not more than DA:O, ME2 or ME3. You'd need something on the range of 40-50% digital downloads to reach the 4.5 - 5+M mark needed to surpass any other Bioware game.

Unless they are taking the word "launch" incredibly literally and using some weird slicing of the first day/week/two weeks sales, I suppose.

I also have a bit of a feeling that, since Bioware went into the open world route, some people got into their heads that EA expected Skyrim's numbers, Which seems very unlikely to me; EA does have a tendency to shoot for the stars and crash-land on the moon, but I don't think they believed the series would go from selling 3-4 million copies per entry to Skyrim's, what, 15 millions I think? They saw the price of being overly ambitious with Dead Space 3, methinks.

What? No, no one in their right mind thought that. The problem is that retail sales made it seem like DA:I sold just a hair better than DA2... less than DA:O and a VERY small return on investment for a 4.5 year development cycle. THAT'S where the concern came from - if a game with that much longer development (and, we can assume, that much more budget) can barely do better than Bioware's worst performing game since Jade Empire... there would be a serious problem. No one was thinkng Skyrim... people were thinking at least DA:O/ME2, though.

[In Exile]

The thing is... 30% WOULD be huge... yet still not even NEAR enough to explain the difference between EA's numbers and retail. NPD projects 2.5 million for DA:I from retail. Adding in 20% for digital downloads (the rough average for games on all platforms these days) and that takes it to 3.1M, the number people have been shooting around as the likely DA:I number of units sold )and not that much higher than DA2). If you bump this up to 30%, you are up to 4M... still not more than DA:O, ME2 or ME3. You'd need something on the range of 40-50% digital downloads to reach the 4.5 - 5+M mark needed to surpass any other Bioware game.

Unless they are taking the word "launch" incredibly literally and using some weird slicing of the first day/week/two weeks sales, I suppose.



What? No, no one in their right mind thought that. The problem is that retail sales made it seem like DA:I sold just a hair better than DA2... less than DA:O and a VERY small return on investment for a 4.5 year development cycle. THAT'S where the concern came from - if a game with that much longer development (and, we can assume, that much more budget) can barely do better than Bioware's worst performing game since Jade Empire... there would be a serious problem. No one was thinkng Skyrim... people were thinking at least DA:O/ME2, though.

Where are you getting your DA2 numbers from? I've never seen any suggestion it sold even between 2-3 million lifetime much less in the span of a few months. At most the 3+ million number is the figure I saw for DAO lifetime.

[littlebrightpanda]

I still think that EA sees the work done on DAI as an investment for Dragon Age and Mass Effect as a whole, as they worked with a new engine to make it compatible for an RPG. They will use the work the team has done on the new Mass Effect (I heard the dialogue wheel is among them), which is why parts of the budget were most certainly occupied by that.

 

Now the actual budget and development time for DAI are deluded by the engine work, we only know that it was pushed a year for further polish. EA probably didn't think Skyrim numbers, and as neither DA nor ME have managed to pull much more than 5 million units, DAI is probably in the same range. If it surpassed that, it's good, if not, well, they got more games with the same engine coming. 

 

We can be sure that they will churn out games a bit faster now, just like with Final Fantasy XIII (and also probably XV). 

[wolfhowwl]

Where are you getting your DA2 numbers from? I've never seen any suggestion it sold even between 2-3 million lifetime much less in the span of a few months. At most the 3+ million number is the figure I saw for DAO lifetime.

 

Dragon Age as a series was at 8 million when Inquisition was announced.

[Fast Jimmy]

Dragon Age as a series was at 8 million when Inquisition was announced.

Agreed. I'll have to dig later tonight, but I had always in my mind DA2 sold right under 3M while DA:O (including Ultimate Edition) sold a hair over 5M.

[Fast Jimmy]

I still think that EA sees the work done on DAI as an investment for Dragon Age and Mass Effect as a whole, as they worked with a new engine to make it compatible for an RPG. They will use the work the team has done on the new Mass Effect (I heard the dialogue wheel is among them), which is why parts of the budget were most certainly occupied by that.

Now the actual budget and development time for DAI are deluded by the engine work, we only know that it was pushed a year for further polish. EA probably didn't think Skyrim numbers, and as neither DA nor ME have managed to pull much more than 5 million units, DAI is probably in the same range. If it surpassed that, it's good, if not, well, they got more games with the same engine coming.

We can be sure that they will churn out games a bit faster now, just like with Final Fantasy XIII (and also probably XV).

I'm actually a little surprised in hindsight that the earnings call didn't showcase Frostbite's role in DA:I, given that this was a bit of an experiment to use the engine well outside the normal DICE wheelhouse and how FB is going to be the engine of choice for all EA developers going forward. That's a phenomenal business move for them to pull, but I've honestly not seen much about it from EA in terms of any of their release calls and/or forward looking statements.

[Hiemoth]

Where are you getting your DA2 numbers from? I've never seen any suggestion it sold even between 2-3 million lifetime much less in the span of a few months. At most the 3+ million number is the figure I saw for DAO lifetime.

 

According to VGChartz, DA2 sold over 2 million units cross platform. Similarly amusingly, according to them it sold better on PC than DAO did. As for the Dragon Age Inquisition, they have for it 3+ million, which is pretty good despite this constant argument that is somehow horrible? Compare it to something like Far Cry 4, which is currently according to the same site at 5.5 million or Assassin's Creed: Unity, which is at 5.8. Both of those games are much more focused on larger audiences than RPG's.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The thing is... 30% WOULD be huge... yet still not even NEAR enough to explain the difference between EA's numbers and retail. NPD projects 2.5 million for DA:I from retail. Adding in 20% for digital downloads (the rough average for games on all platforms these days) and that takes it to 3.1M, the number people have been shooting around as the likely DA:I number of units sold )and not that much higher than DA2). If you bump this up to 30%, you are up to 4M... still not more than DA:O, ME2 or ME3. You'd need something on the range of 40-50% digital downloads to reach the 4.5 - 5+M mark needed to surpass any other Bioware game.

Unless they are taking the word "launch" incredibly literally and using some weird slicing of the first day/week/two weeks sales, I suppose.

 

 

Those numbers are for games that have been on sale for years; Origins in particular didn't get a great launch but soared thanks to word of mouth. Inquisition has been out barely more than 2 month. They didn't say it outsold the other games period, but that it had the best launch. What they mean exactly by launch is unknown, true, but I don't think it's a DA2 situation, where the game had a great opening week thanks to Origins then tanked because it was, well, DA2. Whatever Metracritic says, Inquisition has a much better reception from fans and critics alike, and I see it on Origin's best sellers from time to time.

 

DA:O or DA2 cerainly didn't sell 4m+ copies within the first two months, that's for damn sure. Let's remember that NPD are estimates, with all the variables this entails. If NPD says one thing and EA themselves say another, well I'll quite simply believe EA more because they have access to the hard data, and they would gain little by lying so boldly to their shareholders about Dragon Age. The game has sold well. It's a financial success so far. That's what we need to take from this.

[AmberDragon]

I honestly don't see the issue people have with the side quests at all in this game. I love the exploration and the fact you can easily choose what to do or not to do. Closing the fade rifts for example makes sense, as does recruiting the guy with the horses and what not. If you don't want to go chasing buffalo's around then simply do not do it. I hope they do keep the next game very similar so people have this choice!

To me, the side quests fit. The Inquisition started with nothing - they need agents, they need influence and they need people to trust in them if they are to succeed. That even means then Inquisitor getting out there, picking a flower and taking it to some old and feable person who is unable to go pick the flower for themselves. Why? Because it humanizes the Inquisitor to people. If you don't want a humanized Inquisitor to the people - don't do the missions.

Same here personally I love to explore and do side quests, so I agree with what you have said 100%.  I get some people don't like the side quests but hey they don't have to do them as you said.

 

Edit: Oh and congratulations to all involved at Bioware, ok the game isn't perfect but it is still really good and fun to play, completed four playthroughs and now into my fifth and aim eventually to do a run through where I find everything there is to find. Looking forward to lots of dlc and to Dragon Age 4