75 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

Because they want to play it like an "action" game when it obviously isn't one. Some couldn't beat it on normal and even struggled on casual until Bioware patched the game and made easy mode more...easy. Origins is about tactics, strategy, understanding all spells/talents and more importantly how to counter them because mobs have access to the same powers as your team. The game was just fine without fast combat and over the top animations and there was a good balance between attack speed - player damage - enemy health. You were not chopping huge health bars at high speed like in DA2, that was just ridiculous.

 

(clicked like when I didn't mean to, sorry...)

 

That's funny since DA2 is clearly much harder than DAO. In fact, hard mode of DA2 is harder than DAO's nightmare.

[BlauPauh]

I like the combat from every Dragon Age game, but in DAO I was frustrated when an enemy just picks me up and I have no chance to get free, at least give me a chance. I always play two handed (not in DA2) and it was very slow which is fine, but when you are slow AND miss sometimes that's frustrating. How can you miss with a big ass swort?

I love the combat in DA:I the most because I can scan the whole fighting area. I can tell a companion bevorehand who to attack without waiting because they stand behind a corner and I can't choose a target. My warrior can actually hit multiple targets which makes sense. I can revive my people, which I like because I have a chance to turn the battle around. Or die trying.

I think my only real problen is that I played DA:I first and I find the combat so much better.

Also hader doesn't necessarily mean more interesting.

[Heimerdinger]

(clicked like when I didn't mean to, sorry...)

 

That's funny since DA2 is clearly much harder than DAO. In fact, hard mode of DA2 is harder than DAO's nightmare.

 

DA2 had a short development, it doesn't seem like they play-tested and optimized it very much. Friendly fire was removed on all but nightmare because it's not balanced. For example fireball will decimate your guys but it barely makes a dent on enemies. In Origins it hurts everyone the same, after accounting for resistances of course. It's not that DA2 is hard, in reality it's just annoying. It buffs up enemy HP to absurd levels (hello Ancient Rock Wraith and Arishok), mob waves (I remember a 4th wave at some point, or was it a 5th? in the Bloodragers quest), long CD on healing, the camera does not help at all (try fighting in narrow corridor, good luck figuring out what's happening). I guess it was just intended to be played on normal. Button mash your way to the next cutscene.

[Handsome Jack]

Because they're filthy casuals.

[Ganalysis]

Should I be playing origins or should I just play the second and third?

[Kevin Lynch]

Should I be playing origins or should I just play the second and third?

Origins is arguably the best of the trio, so you owe it to yourself to play. I'd say the second is the lowest of them with DA:I in the middle (but towards the higher end).

[ShadowLordXII]

Hype/Nostalgia Backlash?

 

I don't know. The system was great for the time and there are aspects of it that I'd hold up as examples of how to make a great RPG combat system, especially when compared to DAII and Inquisition.

 

I suppose detractors believed that Origin's system was too "old school?"

[Sylriel]

Should I be playing origins or should I just play the second and third?

In my personal opinion if you are interested in Dragon Age, think of the games this way:

 

Dragon Age: Origins = must play, repeatedly

DA2 and DA:I = optional

[keeneaow]

i suggest try out Spellforce 1, it kept me mesmerized 10 years

as opposed to DA:O that i played for 1 year in lack of any better

[Uccio]

DAO combat was not slow, it was tactical. You could actually see what happens in the battle and decide what to do next. You could actually see block, parry and dodge, like you should be able to do. And it had awesome kill animations.

 

It was simply awesome.

 

Combat in DA2 and DAI is insane rainbow bomb where it is impossible to make out what happens. A vomit of color and unrealisticly fast movements. You just had to frantically hit the Awesome Button™ and wait until the dust settles and everyone is dead. Granted DA2 is still wildly superior to DAI.

I would not have believed myself then but I´d rather take DA2 parachuting enemies back than grind those respawning 3+ miniature mooks DAI provides, with a occasional giant dwarf/human/darkspawn as a side dish.

 

I mean giant dwarfs Bio? Really???

[andy6915]

DAO combat was not slow, it was tactical. You could actually see what happens in the battle and decide what to do next. You could actually see block, parry and dodge, like you should be able to do. And it had awesome kill animations.

 

It was simply awesome.

 

Combat in DA2 and DAI is insane rainbow bomb where it is impossible to make out what happens. A vomit of color and unrealisticly fast movements. You just had to frantically hit the Awesome Button™ and wait until the dust settles and everyone is dead. Granted DA2 is still wildly superior to DAI.

I would not have believed myself then but I´d rather take DA2 parachuting enemies back than grind those respawning 3+ miniature mooks DAI provides, with a occasional giant dwarf/human/darkspawn as a side dish.

 

I mean giant dwarfs Bio? Really???

 

No, DAO's combat is slow. Period. You want to argue that it was more tactical than DA2 or DAI, fine. But don't try to say that the combat wasn't snail pace. It's the reason I can only stand dual wielding, dual wielding with momentum (or haste) is about the only way the combat can be made to not be asininely slow as a sleepy sloth that is high on a sedative. And 2-handed styles were just... Bad. Really bad. Simply "no excuse" bad.

 

There's a mod that makes the combat twice as fast for the PC versions. From all I've read, the combat is essentially unchanged and is just as tactical as the unmodded combat. If it was "tactical but not slow" as you say, how could it be that making the combat animations twice as fast doesn't negatively affect it?

[ShadowLordXII]

No, DAO's combat is slow. Period. You want to argue that it was more tactical than DA2 or DAI, fine. But don't try to say that the combat wasn't snail pace. It's the reason I can only stand dual wielding, dual wielding with momentum (or haste) is about the only way the combat can be made to not be asininely slow as a sleepy sloth that is high on a sedative. And 2-handed styles were just... Bad. Really bad. Simply "no excuse" bad.

 

There's a mod that makes the combat twice as fast for the PC versions. From all I've read, the combat is essentially unchanged and is just as tactical as the unmodded combat. If it was "tactical but not slow" as you say, how could it be that making the combat animations twice as fast doesn't negatively affect it?

 

Slow? You mean animation slow? I don't get what you mean by the combat being slow.

 

But even if the combat was slow in a bad way, that doesn't change that the combat system and other elements surrounding it such as classes; weapon talent trees; and attribute allocation were simply much more varied and had more depth than DA2 (which was at best a bare-bones RPG with everything that was stripped out or stream-lined) or Inquisition (Some depth is returned, but the developers felt that they had to compromise between the systems and styles of DA2 and Origins, even though Origins is clearly superior).

[andy6915]

Slow? You mean animation slow? I don't get what you mean by the combat being slow.

 

But even if the combat was slow in a bad way, that doesn't change that the combat system and other elements surrounding it such as classes; weapon talent trees; and attribute allocation were simply much more varied and had more depth than DA2 (which was at best a bare-bones RPG with everything that was stripped out or stream-lined) or Inquisition (Some depth is returned, but the developers felt that they had to compromise between the systems and styles of DA2 and Origins, even though Origins is clearly superior).

 

Yes, slow animations. Everyone attacks like the atmosphere is 10 times thicker than usual, like they're fighting underwater or something. Just swinging a sword is swung so slowly that it's a wonder that it causes any damage to enemies (unless you have haste or momentum on). And this is talking about swords specifically, as in the fastest weapon type in the game next to daggers... And they're still swung painfully slow. Bring mauls and maces into the picture, and the combat speed is dropped from "sloth" speed to "a video of a sloth with frame-by-frame slow motion mode". It's flat-out unrealistic in the opposite way that DA2 was, in that the combat is unrealistically slow to the point that the weapon speeds in DAO wouldn't even slightly hurt someone in real life who's wearing even basic leather armor. It's too slow. I recall even Bioware themselves saying that they made the combat animations in DAO too slow for their own liking too. And again, that mod that makes combat animation speeds doubled doesn't even hurt the combat and actually makes things look more realistic.

 

So yes, it's extremely slow when it comes to combat. Something like the combat speed of Stars Wars Knights of the Old Republic felt just right, but for some reason Bioware made the attacks animations about as sluggish as they could possible get away with for DAO. Even just longswords having dagger attack speed and greatswords having longsword attack speed and daggers having momentum-longswords attack speed would have an improvement.

[Uccio]

No, DAO's combat is slow. Period. You want to argue that it was more tactical than DA2 or DAI, fine. But don't try to say that the combat wasn't snail pace. It's the reason I can only stand dual wielding, dual wielding with momentum (or haste) is about the only way the combat can be made to not be asininely slow as a sleepy sloth that is high on a sedative. And 2-handed styles were just... Bad. Really bad. Simply "no excuse" bad.

 

There's a mod that makes the combat twice as fast for the PC versions. From all I've read, the combat is essentially unchanged and is just as tactical as the unmodded combat. If it was "tactical but not slow" as you say, how could it be that making the combat animations twice as fast doesn't negatively affect it?

 

There was nothing slow about it. People seem to have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder for for not having time to wait more than one second for something to happen these days.

 

One option could have been a adjustment for those who grave for faster pace though. Just set the pace two knots faster and go. Should be possible.

[andy6915]

There was nothing slow about it. People seem to have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder for for not having time to wait more than one second for something to happen these days.

 

One option could have been a adjustment for those who grave for faster pace though. Just set the pace two knots faster and go. Should be possible.

 

So you have to be have ADHD to call DAO combat slow? Very nice indirect insult there, always good to see passive aggressiveness over differences of opinion . And yes, I was just now passive aggressive myself with this post... But it's only in response to you thinking that route was the best way to disagree with someone.

[Uccio]

No. And no need to read too much into it. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. Saying something is slow is completely subjective, like saying it is just fine. We can´t compare it to anything else but what we have perceived to be right.

[KaiserShep]

Saying that the combat is slow is a bit of a misconception. The animation is definitely slow, like how long it takes for characters to recover from being knocked down, and of course how slow everyone "runs" when weapons are drawn, which is something they brought back for Inquisition but the latter is a bit faster paced. At the very least, the slow recovery is the same for everyone, even enemies. It's only really a problem at the lower levels when you haven't turned your characters into a group of walking fortresses with high resistances, but it's made worse on the console, because melee characters love to charge off on their own and die, and your only recourse to prevent that is hold position, which at least frikkin works in this game.

 

But as for the combat itself, once you're way up there and spec'd right, wiping out enemies can become kind of a breeze, and despite the slow animation, battles can be over in no time. Most regular enemies basically become XP tokens for you to nab. As for the ridiculous animation in the other games, I never really considered them any more so than that acrobatics move you do when you kill a dragon.

 

That being said, I consider Origins' mages to be pretty boring. I can't really stand to go through the whole game playing as one, and prefer to just use the spells of my allies to my advantage while I play a rogue. The same is kind of true for archers for me as well. Say what one will of Inquisition, but I can finally play an archer and actually enjoy it, much like DA2 was where I finally learned to enjoy the mage, though screw Carver.

[Uccio]

Funny, Origins mages are the best for me. I love the spell trees and abilities. and they fight like mages should. Drop staff see how casting should be done.

 

Never understood why mage had to become a gymnastic or a pew pew shooter. After all mage is supposed to be mind fighter, not physical.

[KaiserShep]

Mages didn't really become acrobatic, since their only means of evading enemies is fade step, and as always, are incapable of moving while attacking. I do wish that they were able to cast from their fingertips though. We already see them do something magical with their hands when using that wierd telekinetic power to seal or unblock tunnels, light vielfires and build small bridges.

[Heimerdinger]

Origins mages were my favorite too. And those spell trees, so many options. Some builds I made in the past:

 

- full Primal Build + Creation + Spirit Healer (high damage, very good at keeping everyone alive, played this one twice actually)

- full Entropy Build + Blood Mage + Arcane Warrior (good debilitator, not much damage except Death Cloud - Death Hex combo, AW only for the armor, still fun)

- mix of Primal + Blood Mage + Spirit Healer + Entropy + Spirit (power house build, owned everything)

- full Spirit Build + full Arcane Warrior + other defensive spells (this one was nearly invincible on Nightmare)

- Blood Mage + Arcane Warrior + mix of all damager spells (add Battlemage in Awakening - destruction, destruction everywhere)

 

- still plan to do a full support mage at some point.

[springacres]

Funny, Origins mages are the best for me. I love the spell trees and abilities. and they fight like mages should. Drop staff see how casting should be done.

 

Never understood why mage had to become a gymnastic or a pew pew shooter. After all mage is supposed to be mind fighter, not physical.

This.  My canon Warden was full Creation + full set of basic Mage abilities + full Shapeshifter + full Spirit Healer + full Keeper by the end of Awakening.  It may not sound like much, but he kept everyone alive and managed to still do some offensive damage once I got him Stinging Swarm.  Oh, and he was great with spell combos too.  (Granted I played him on Casual, so the friendly fire effects of Mass Paralysis were something I could easily ignore.)

[Mike3207]

This.  My canon Warden was full Creation + full set of basic Mage abilities + full Shapeshifter + full Spirit Healer + full Keeper by the end of Awakening.  It may not sound like much, but he kept everyone alive and managed to still do some offensive damage once I got him Stinging Swarm.  Oh, and he was great with spell combos too.  (Granted I played him on Casual, so the friendly fire effects of Mass Paralysis were something I could easily ignore.)

I wouldn't have thought support healer would work well with shapeshifter, just because your support spells don't work on yourself while shapeshifted. You need another support healer for them to stick while shifted.

 

Unless of course you mainly stuck with the Swarm form and used a staff, where the autohit lessened the need to have the support spells added. 

[springacres]

I actually barely used Shapeshifter - just gave him the specialization because it was the only one I had unlocked at the time IIRC, plus he wouldn't have been interested in Arcane Warrior and ESPECIALLY not in Bloodmage.  Plus I felt Shapeshifter fit his interests what with being a Creation specialist.

[Mike3207]

I actually barely used Shapeshifter - just gave him the specialization because it was the only one I had unlocked at the time IIRC, plus he wouldn't have been interested in Arcane Warrior and ESPECIALLY not in Bloodmage.  Plus I felt Shapeshifter fit his interests what with being a Creation specialist.

Ah-for the RP then.  Creation is a bit weak on the offensive spells. I would have thought you could have used both Poison Spit and the Swarm Form with the lack of damage dealing spells. Stinging Swarm your go to spell when foes get close?

 

As for combat, I always liked it. Skyrim could have leaned lessons from the combat-and ability of destruction to level up. I'll admit I liked the kill-cams though.

[springacres]

Offensive-wise, I alternated between Stinging Swarm and Arcane Bolt (and basic staff attack when I was lazy ) but yeah, Creation is definitely a defensive school.  Which was just fine with him; he had Al, Sten, Oghren or Dog as tanks, Zev and Leliana for ranged damage, Wynne and Morri for offensive spells... and whenever Morrigan was in the party, my character's lack of offensive spells probably kept collateral damage to a minimum, because he could barely tolerate her on good days