I must have missed the conversation where it is alluded to. Does it require Warden Alistair?
King Alistair doesn't have a conversation with her beyond "You abused our hospitality and are exiled from Ferelden".
OP, I would not recommend any of the books.
Sure I do, at least in terms of the content that I have experienced. Which are the games and the games only.
Fiona's conversation with the Inquisitor at Skyhold, which amounts to
Fiona: Did you get to speak to King Alistair?
Inquisitor: No, he wasn't really in the mood.
Fiona: Oh, well I hope he's happy. I knew his father, Maric. He would have wanted that.
Inquisitor: Want me to arrange a meeting?
Fiona: No, no, it's too late for that. Just the ramblings of an old woman.
is not exactly an admission or confirmation of the events of The Calling unless you have read the book.
And since I have not, I'm taking it at face value.
Until it is spelled out more clearly in the games themselves, it did not happen in the Thedas that I know.
Same with Wynne's death, that whole mess with Maric still being alive, etc.
that part did happen, Alistair mentions if he's a warden, so you can't deny that either.
Yeah, but certain events from the books did happen, regardless, all of which we saw borne out in the game itself?
Varric tells the Iron Bull that he met the new Arishok (Sten) just as he did in the comics. Cole tells us that he went to Adamant, killed the Lord Seeker and that Wynne died to save Evangline, all of which happened in "Asunder". Mihris, Michel and Imshael all refer to "The Masked Empire" and it's events. Most of the Mage-Templar war and the Orlesian plot have callbacks to the novels, so dismissing them basically is refuting half the game itself?
No. Because these things make sense within the context in which they are presented within Inquisition.
For example: Varric says he met the new Arishok. Okay, good. But that could literally be any Qunari that did not have horns back in Par Vollen. It's never said that's Sten. It's only Sten if you've read the books.
Which brings up another point: if you left Sten caged back in Lothering, what did he do to regain his honor, his sword, etc. How did he make it out of the cage before the Darkspawn hoard destroyed the village? More importantly, why would he refer to Alistair as Basalit-an if he did not accompany the HoF during the events of Origins. And there's no guarantee at all that Alistair WOULD be King during those events anyway.
Another reason I refuse to acknowledge the supplemental material.
that part did happen, Alistair mentions if he's a warden, so you can't deny that either.
Source? I haven't seen that referenced in Inquisition.
When Inquisitor and party are thrown into the fade Warden Alistair says, "I've seen my father in the Fade. I saw a demon pretending to be my sister in the Fade. But I've never seen this."
Would you consider it confirmed if it was confirmed by Laidlaw that Fiona is Al's mother?
When Inquisitor and party are thrown into the fade Warden Alistair says, "I've seen my father in the Fade. I saw a demon pretending to be my sister in the Fade. But I've never seen this."
Would you consider it confirmed if it was confirmed by Laidlaw that Fiona is Al's mother?
Yes, because things that happen in the Fade can definitely be taken at face value. How can Alistair know that it it was Maric and not something pretending to be Maric, similar to whatever was wearing Justinia's face? And since, IIRC, Alistair wasn't physically in the Fade, that makes it even more suspect.
And to your other question - no. It's certainly canon within the realm of the novel, but unless Laidlaw makes a more direct reference in the games, I do not.
I must have missed the conversation where it is alluded to. Does it require Warden Alistair?
King Alistair doesn't have a conversation with her beyond "You abused our hospitality and are exiled from Ferelden".
Fiona has that conversation with the Inquisitor, where she cagely admits that she knew Maric a long time ago, in a tone that makes it clear she's obviously not telling the Inquisitor everything and is hiding something (ie. I hooked up with him and I'm Alistair's mother).
For Alistair if he's King, she asks if you had a chance to talk with him before he booted them from Redcliffe, while if he's a Warden, she asks about him when you meet him during Here Lies the Abyss... and if he died in the Fade, asks whether or not he died heroically?
No. Because these things make sense within the context in which they are presented within Inquisition.
For example: Varric says he met the new Arishok. Okay, good. But that could literally be any Qunari that did not have horns back in Par Vollen. It's never said that's Sten. It's only Sten if you've read the books.
Which brings up another point: if you left Sten caged back in Lothering, what did he do to regain his honor, his sword, etc. How did he make it out of the cage before the Darkspawn hoard destroyed the village? More importantly, why would he refer to Alistair as Basalit-an if he did not accompany the HoF during the events of Origins.
Another reason I refuse to acknowledge the supplemental material.
Which is why I said, it's pretty much down to constants and variables. If those characters are still alive, but certain things didn't happen, then they still probably happened as they did in the other media, but not necessarily in the same way?
Wynne can die in Origins, so presumably, the events of Asunder happened a tad differently. However, it's not hard to picture that the Divine asked someone to investigate reversing Tranquility, who ended up recruiting a powerful Spirit Medium, thus getting Rhys into the action, thus setting in motion the same events that happened in the book, just a tad differently? It's true that in this world, Evangeline would have probably died since Wynne wasn't around to sacrifice herself to save her, but it's just as plausible that perhaps Evangeline was luckier in this world and never got mortally wounded by Lambert, so she's still alive and well regardless?
Or to use your example of Sten? Perhaps he was freed before Lothering fell, went back to Lake Calenhad in the vain hope of tracking down his sword and managed to pick up the trail as he does with the Warden, leading him to Redcliffe to get it back from Dwyn? Then, he departed back to Par Vollen, having suffered far too much of Ferelden for his liking?
It's not hard to really see how things could have played out in some of these AU worlds to fit with the books. The only reason we don't have those things is because half of the decisions would require far too much time and effort being put into having to write every contingency for the games themselves?
Same reason as why if Kieran is alive, then he looks the same regardless of who his father was?
Or to use your example of Sten? Perhaps he was freed before Lothering fell, went back to Lake Calenhad in the vain hope of tracking down his sword and managed to pick up the trail as he does with the Warden, leading him to Redcliffe to get it back from Dwyn? Then, he departed back to Par Vollen, having suffered far too much of Ferelden for his liking?
It's not hard to really see how things could have played out in some of these AU worlds to fit with the books. The only reason we don't have those things is because half of the decisions would require far too much time and effort being put into having to write every contingency for the games themselves?
That still doesn't explain why Sten would consider Alistair Basalit-an, afforded him the respect of one he knew, etc.
So, basically, there's no confirmation of anything within the game.
I hear telling Fiona Alister dies in the Fade is funny. Also, Leliana knows Alistair is Fiona's son, in game.
So, basically, there's no confirmation of anything within the game.
I think it is deliberately referenced in a way that fans who have read the supplemental material know what is being referenced, but left purposely vague enough that fans like me can take it at face value or choose to ignore it.
Well, and then rage about how it is being referenced, in my case, but I still think that was the intent.
Also, Leliana knows Alistair is Fiona's son, in game.
Reference?
That still doesn't explain why Sten would consider Alistair Basalit-an, afforded him the respect of one he knew, etc.
In this alternate world, he wouldn't know Alistair as someone he knew and fought alongside, but he could consider him "Basalit-an" since he's one of the Wardens who help end the Blight? Especially since Sten seems to have a lot of respect for the Wardens, both their legend and how they stayed and fought to the death at Ostagar, even when everyone else had fled.
Alistair being a Warden who ended the Blight and survived Ostagar would get some major street-cred with him, I'd wager?
In this alternate world, he wouldn't know Alistair as someone he knew and fought alongside, but he could consider him "Basalit-an" since he's one of the Wardens who help end the Blight? Especially since Sten seems to have a lot of respect for the Wardens, both their legend and how they stayed and fought to the death at Ostagar, even when everyone else had fled.
Alistair being a Warden who ended the Blight and survived Ostagar would get some major street-cred with him, I'd wager?
That kind of runs contrary to every other example of Basalit-an I've seen thus far, which required some degree of interaction with the Qunari.
Sten and the Warden.
The Arishok and Hawke.
Tallis and Hawke.
The Inquisitor and the Ben-Hassrath.
The Qunari are pretty quick to dismiss anyone as Bas unless they have personally witnessed actions taken by the individual.
I think the supplemental material is fine. The games stand well enough on their own, and if you want to learn some *optional* lore, you can read the supplemental material. There are plenty of things that are not specifically spelled out in the games or any other supplemental material, yet, and that doesn't mean they didn't happen.
Yes, because things that happen in the Fade can definitely be taken at face value. How can Alistair know that it it was Maric and not something pretending to be Maric, similar to whatever was wearing Justinia's face? And since, IIRC, Alistair wasn't physically in the Fade, that makes it even more suspect.
And to your other question - no. It's certainly canon within the realm of the novel, but unless Laidlaw makes a more direct reference in the games, I do not.
Just testing what your guidelines for confirmation are. Who knows if will ever be more than hinted at in game? Fiona was pretty adamant that Alistair not find out the truth.
Bold part: You mean after falling into the Fade with the Inquisitor, Hawke, and friends, or in the comic? Sorry, tired. Otherwise:
Alistair, Isabela, Varric, Maevaris, Maric, and Magister Aurelius Titus were sent into the fade in a similar way the demon traps your party in the fade in DAO. Not there physically but you are in a dream or nightmare that you have to break free of. Maric was not just some spirit manifestation a la Justinia, the fade put him and Alistair together in the same dream. But all of this is in the comic which you won't take as happening even if Warden Alistair mentions it in passing.
Alistair, Isabela, Varric, Maevaris, Maric, and Magister Aurelius Titus were sent into the fade in a similar way the demon traps your party in the fade in DAO. Not there physically but you are in a dream or nightmare that you have to break free of. Maric was not just some spirit manifestation a la Justinia, the fade put him and Alistair together in the same dream. But all of this is in the comic which you won't take as happening even if Warden Alistair mentions it in passing.
My point is that the line in Inquisition means something only if you have read the material. Otherwise, it just hangs there, and can be interpreted any number of other ways.
For example, if I was completely unaware of the supplemental material, and had familiarity only with DAO-DAI within the world of the games, what does Alistair saying "I met my father in the Fade" mean? How am I supposed to interpret that? Literally? As a dream? A delusion? A deception?
This line doesn't reveal anything unless you're familiar with the supplemental material.
I should not have to go through this kind of mental exercise to make sense of the events of the narrative or the understand what the characters are trying to say.
It is either encouraging me to purchase the books and comics to know the whole story or is meant to reward players that have made that purchase. In either case, that is disappointing.
But since we're on that aspect of the supplemental material - if you have Alistair executed during the Landsmeet, how did this even happen? How can this be canon if everything that is happening in DAO-DAI for me runs contrary to it? Is it canon only within the context of the novels, or am I supposed to assume that because I put Anora on the throne at the cost of Alistair's life, that I'm playing something that is not canon?
While I agree it's frustrating that not all the information is given iin the game itself, I view the books and comics as being something that was too long to be put into a codex entry and too linar to make a decent game. Not wanting to read the books is one thing, but dismissing them as non-canon is another. The events happened in-universe. Cole recaps the entire of Asunder for you (even quoting lines from the book) and Michel, Gaspard, Celene, Briala, Imshael and Mihiris all reference the events of The Masked Empire. If Alistair remains with the Wardens and is at Skyhold, Fiona talks about him and makes it very clear she has a connection to him beyond knowing his dad at one point
So...my question becomes, what happened to Goldanna's mother and apparent unborn (or perhaps born) sibling?
Retcon happened.
Anyone other than Goldana's mother being Alistair doesn't make sense, based on what we were presented with in DA:O. The issue as I understand it, is that David Gaider did not write those portions of DA:O. He later decided to go in a different route, and in doing so shitcanned another writer's work.
It was a mistake in my opinion. They should have left it alone and kept Goldanna's mother as Alistair's mother, as originally intended at the time DA:O released. Not only does the retcon leave this bizarre encounter with a fake family unexplained, it also causes timeline issues. If you recruit Loghain in DA:O he has dialogue where he states that Maric said he he didn't publicly acknowledge Alistair as his son for fear of turning Rowan (the queen) into a concubine in the eyes of the people. The problem? This only works if Goldanna's mother is Alistair's mother. The fling with Fiona occurs long after Rowan had died.
While I agree it's frustrating that not all the information is given iin the game itself, I view the books and comics as being something that was too long to be put into a codex entry and too linar to make a decent game. Not wanting to read the books is one thing, but dismissing them as non-canon is another. The events happened in-universe. Cole recaps the entire of Asunder for you (even quoting lines from the book) and Michel, Gaspard, Celene, Briala, Imshael and Mihiris all reference the events of The Masked Empire. If Alistair remains with the Wardens and is at Skyhold, Fiona talks about him and makes it very clear she has a connection to him beyond knowing his dad at one point
SpoilerFiona will also talk about the events of both The Calling and Asunder in her dialouge, and Loghain will talk about the events of The Stolen Throne back in Origins. In the Fade Alistair talks about having met his dad there (meaning that the events of the comics happen in a worldstate where he's a Warden too) and Mae shows up in Dorian's War Table missions.
But the events of Asunder cannot happen as written if Wynne died at the Circle Tower and Shale was never activated, not without massive explanations as to how Wynne was still alive, Shale somehow activated without the control rod in the Warden's possession, and why she, Shale, and Leliana would have any familiarity with each other.
That kind of runs contrary to every other example of Basalit-an I've seen thus far, which required some degree of interaction with the Qunari.
Actually, if you do MotA during Act 3, Tallis mentions that the Arishok declaring Hawke to be "Basalit-an" is recognised by all Qunari, marking them as someone worthy of interacting with and showing respect towards (even if they are still Bas) and was one of the reasons why she wanted to hire Hawke specifically for the Chateau-Haine heist.
(One can presume it's another reason why Taarbas in Act 3 asks Hawke to find and retrieve lost swords, perhaps seeing Hawke as the only competent, capable and worthy person in Kirkwall and who'd actually be counted to get the job done?)
It'd fit that Alistair would be considered such for their role during the Fifth Blight, regardless of whether or not they'd met personally or not before hand, since the title means "outsider worthy of respect". One suspects that the Qunari might view a few potential movers and shakers in Thedas as Basalit-an, the real trick however is getting them to admit it to their faces! 
But the events of Asunder cannot happen as written if Wynne died at the Circle Tower and Shale was never activated, not without massive explanations as to how Wynne was still alive, Shale somehow activated without the control rod in the Warden's possession, and why she, Shale, and Leliana would have any familiarity with each other.
The events of the books will happen differently if the worldstate doesn't allow it to happen as it did in Bioware's canon. However, I think Wynne wlll always be part of Asunder as the Spirit of Faith is the thing keeping her alive.
Also I apologise if I sound rude. That's not intentional.
Actually, if you do MotA during Act 3, Tallis mentions that the Arishok declaring Hawke to be "Basalit-an" is recognised by all Qunari, marking them as someone worthy of interacting with and showing respect towards (even if they are still Bas) and was one of the reasons why she wanted to hire Hawke specifically for the Chateau-Haine heist.
(One can presume it's the same reason why Taarbas in Act 3 asks Hawke to find and retrieve lost swords, perhaps seeing Hawke as the only competent, capable and worthy person in Kirkwall to ask and who'd actually get the job done?)
It'd fit that Alistair would be considered such for their role during the Fifth Blight, regardless of whether or not they'd met personally or not before hand, since the title means "outsider worthy of respect". One suspects that the Qunari might view a few potential movers and shakers in Thedas as Basalit-an, the real trick however is getting them to admit it to their faces!
No, but that's my point.
Hawke is considered Basalit-an by the Arishok, thus the Qunari recognize it. The Arishok, and the Qunari accompanying him, witnessed Hawke's actions. It doesn't matter that Tallis didn't see these actions - the Qun recognized them.
It's much different story if no Qunari witnessed Alistair's actions during the Fifth Blight, and just decided to declare him Basalit-an based on hearsay.
The events of the books will happen differently if the worldstate doesn't allow it to happen as it did in Bioware's canon. However, I think Wynne wlll always be part of Asunder as the Spirit of Faith is the thing keeping her alive.
SpoilerLeliana will always be involved because she's the Left Hand of the Divine and Shale is unimportant to the book. The important characters are Rhys, Evangeline, Wynne, Adrian and Cole.
Also I apologise if I sound rude. That's not intentional.
That doesn't track for me.
I would still have to rationalize why these characters know each other when they clearly should not be familiar with one another.
My point is that the line in Inquisition means something only if you have read the material. Otherwise, it just hangs there, and can be interpreted any number of other ways.
For example, if I was completely unaware of the supplemental material, and had familiarity only with DAO-DAI within the world of the games, what does Alistair saying "I met my father in the Fade" mean? How am I supposed to interpret that? Literally? As a dream? A delusion? A deception?
This line doesn't reveal anything unless you're familiar with the supplemental material.
I should not have to go through this kind of mental exercise to make sense of the events of the narrative or the understand what the characters are trying to say.
It is either encouraging me to purchase the books and comics to know the whole story or is meant to reward players that have made that purchase. In either case, that is disappointing.
Calm down there, kiddo. I just didn't quite understand what you were getting at. They are just small nuggets of dialogue in DAI that can be easily overlooked.
But since we're on that aspect of the supplemental material - if you have Alistair executed during the Landsmeet, how did this even happen? How can this be canon if everything that is happening in DAO-DAI for me runs contrary to it? Is it canon only within the context of the novels, or am I supposed to assume that because I put Anora on the throne at the cost of Alistair's life, that I'm playing something that is not canon?
Obviously it only happens if Alistair is alive. *facepalm* If YOUR canon has him dead then it won't happen and your canon continues on it's merry canon way.
But the events of Asunder cannot happen as written if Wynne died at the Circle Tower and Shale was never activated, not without massive explanations as to how Wynne was still alive, Shale somehow activated without the control rod in the Warden's possession, and why she, Shale, and Leliana would have any familiarity with each other.
True. These books are written following BioWare's canon and not mine, or yours, or my neighbor two doors down. Mages rebelled anyway whether any of those characters in the book are alive in my canon or not.
EDIT: format
No, but that's my point.
Hawke is considered Basalit-an by the Arishok, thus the Qunari recognize it. The Arishok, and the Qunari accompanying him, witnessed Hawke's actions. It doesn't matter that Tallis didn't see these actions - the Qun recognized them.
It's much different story if no Qunari witnessed Alistair's actions during the Fifth Blight, and just decided to declare him Basalit-an based on hearsay.
If Alistair didn't know Sten and Sten isn't the Arishok then that becomes part of the story in the comics in that worldstate. The EU happen in one way in Bioware's canon, and another if the canon is different. But the main story is the same.
That doesn't track for me.
I would still have to rationalize why these characters know each other when they clearly should not be familiar with one another.
The answer is: they didn't. If Wynne was murdered by the Warden in DAO and surived due to the Spirit of Faith then Leliana is just some random member of the Chantry who wants to help and Shale isn't around.
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