81 réponses à ce sujet

[Hollins]

When I heard that they were going to bring back planet exploration in NME I was happy to hear that as I complained about the lack of exploration in ME3. But, I have some concerns! ME2 was the first Mass Effect game I played and I loved it. After playing ME2, I bought ME and was blown away by planet exploration in the beginning. Initially, I couldn't figure out why they got rid of it, it seemed like a stupid move on Bioware's part. But, after the 25th planet, it started to become a grind and I stopped exploring planets afterwards. The environments were pretty much the same and you had only a couple of different types of bases/mines to explore. It was repetitive and there was little in the way of story or dialogue when exploring most planets. This made me prefer ME2's side quests as they were more interesting!

 

I expect a better form of exploration to come about, it's not hard to top the Mako or too make more interesting planets. Bioware will accomplish that. But, I hope they avoid making planet exploration part of every side quest. We can make room for ME2 type side quests. Like going on missions within the Citadel or Omega. Now, if you would like us to be able to fly around the Citadel or Omega in a cab, that would be cool, provided it's not too much overhead. I hope there is a planet or two like Illium and some recruiting missions as well, because getting more squad mates is awesome. But, visiting a planet shouldn't always need the Mako. Some planets should have terrains that aren't appropriate for it, like a swamp, forest, cave or canyon. I think it would be great fighting enemies in a open forest(rather than a path through a forest), where you can take cover behind trees and rocks. Some planets could have a few different types of terrains, where the Mako may be needed for some parts, but not others. Finally, sometimes maybe you could just take a  shuttle and fly directly to the base. I hope there is more of a variety of wild life as well and maybe a couple planets where not getting eaten is difficult. It would also be cool if the Mako could hover over water and we could explore a coastline or islands in an ocean.  

 

I expect some fetch quests and actually want some in the game. But if Bioware makes the NME a 100 hour game with 20 hours main quest, 15 hours interesting side quest and 65 hours of fetch quest/boring side quest, then they should expect complaints. I would love the numbers to be 50,30,20 instead, but if that's impossible than a shorter game would be preferable to many hours of exploration and fetch quests. The most important thing is to have a long main quest as previous ME games have been on the short side. I hope they aim for a 40 hour main quest.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jaron Oberyn]

You can never overdue planetary exploration.

[Han Shot First]

You can never overdue planetary exploration.

 

I think you can.

 

DA:I, while not set in space, overdid exploration. You have lots of beautiful maps to explore. Unfortunately a good chunk of the content those maps are filled with is uninteresting. DA:I could have benefited from smaller maps, or from a map or three being cut, with the saved time and resources instead being used on creating more interesting side quests.

[Mcfly616]

Every time I see this it worries me. Not because I don't know what people are getting at. I get what you're saying. You don't want big empty spaces with lame content. What I'm worried about is how Bioware reacts to said statements.

 

 

It's been in Bioware's nature to just butcher or completely remove features and aspects of the gameplay experience that receive criticism. It seems they tend to take a lot of criticism far too literally. They had a good concept they could've improved upon and instead removed exploration after ME1 due to complaints of cookie cutter mercenary bases or underground labs and the dull and devoid landscapes. I fear Bioware may just hear "don't make it all about exploration", and then decide to give us only 4 planets to explore. For those that want a next gen reimagining of ME1's planet hopping exploration, that would suck.

[Hans Olo]

For those that want a next gen reimagining of ME1's planet hopping exploration, that would suck.

 

yes it would!

 

please bring back exploration ME1 style!

 

a little more diversity but that is all we ask for

[Jaron Oberyn]

I think you can.
 
DA:I, while not set in space, overdid exploration. You have lots of beautiful maps to explore. Unfortunately a good chunk of the content those maps are filled with is uninteresting. DA:I could have benefited from smaller maps, or from a map or three being cut, with the saved time and resources instead being used on creating more interesting side quests.

Depends on preference then I suppose. I enjoyed the exploration of DAI. ME in my opinion should go even further given we have planets as opposed to two nations on a continent.

[Linkenski]

I would've been cool with DA:I's world size if there'd actually been more story heavy content in the big exploration areas. Witcher 3 can do it, so Bioware has to as well. They just need to get their fingers out.

[Kabooooom]

It's the concept of exploration that they are clearly focusing on, in addition to the game mechanics of it. Boldly going where no one has gone before. Venturing into truly uncharted space. Whether it is a vast and empty world in the Mako, or an alien cityscape, or the crypt of an ancient species, or a derelict starship - the mechanics dont matter as much to me as the atmosphere does. Bioware seems to understand that, and so I am excited about ME4s potential.

[Malanek]

It's the concept of exploration that they are clearly focusing on, in addition to the game mechanics of it. Boldly going where no one has gone before. Venturing into truly uncharted space. Whether it is a vast and empty world in the Mako, or an alien cityscape, or the crypt of an ancient species, or a derelict starship - the mechanics dont matter as much to me as the atmosphere does. Bioware seems to understand that, and so I am excited about ME4s potential.

Hmmm, I want quite a bit more than just atmosphere. The ME games are mainly a hybrid rpg/3rd person shooter with a cinematic story and that's where I would personally like the majority of the game play to stay. I understand that a large number of people liked DAI but it's only the second Bioware game (first was NWN) that I never finished. I stopped playing for the Evolve beta and just haven't been able to get back into it. If I don't finish it before Evolve comes out I suspect I never will.

 

I just didn't like the pacing of the game. The resource gathering, endless horse riding, compromised random encounters, very basic go here come back quests etc. If they want to make a game like that I guess I have to accept it because a lot of people seem to love those basic little extra bits but I just find them a chore to get through between the better bits of story. The majority of where the game time goes in DAI doesn't appeal to me.

[Mcfly616]

I'm not sure if anybody really likes fetch quests. But I know I don't want to spend another game running down endless corridors again. 

[RoboticWater]

It's the concept of exploration that they are clearly focusing on, in addition to the game mechanics of it. Boldly going where no one has gone before. Venturing into truly uncharted space. Whether it is a vast and empty world in the Mako, or an alien cityscape, or the crypt of an ancient species, or a derelict starship - the mechanics dont matter as much to me as the atmosphere does. Bioware seems to understand that, and so I am excited about ME4s potential.

You say that, but a good atmosphere can't make up for crappy gameplay. I don't want to feel I'm slogging through a game just to see some nice vistas and hear a good story. Atmosphere flows better from a solid game. If that means dealing with a smaller scope, then so be it.

 

Every time I see this it worries me. Not because I don't know what people are getting at. I get what you're saying. You don't want big empty spaces with lame content. What I'm worried about is how Bioware reacts to said statements.

 

 

It's been in Bioware's nature to just butcher or completely remove features and aspects of the gameplay experience that receive criticism. It seems they tend to take a lot of criticism far too literally. They had a good concept they could've improved upon and instead removed exploration after ME1 due to complaints of cookie cutter mercenary bases or underground labs and the dull and devoid landscapes. I fear Bioware may just hear "don't make it all about exploration", and then decide to give us only 4 planets to explore. For those that want a next gen reimagining of ME1's planet hopping exploration, that would suck.

While I do think BioWare's reactions to criticism are a bit harsh, I don't think all were unwarranted.

 

Lesson #1 of the gaming industry: fail fast and kill your babies. If it's unsustainable, get rid of it, no matter how much you like it. I doubt BioWare forgot about exploration or decided it didn't fit some new vision of Mass Effect. They probably realized that the technical limitations and time constraints they had to deal with couldn't effectively harbor an open world. ME3 wasn't exactly a looker (which reasonable given the outdated engine they were using), just imagine that stretched over a bigger landscape. The tech guys probably gave the leads a choice: "either big and sparse or small an detailed." That, coupled with the immense amount of work the level and game designers would need to go through to fit in ME2's combat improvements to a bigger landscape makes for a pretty big job. Heck, we might not have gotten ME2's gameplay upgrade if BioWare were stuck revamping exploration. Given the two options, I think they made the right call.

 

Obviously, technical stuff isn't as big of a problem anymore and Mass Effect's gameplay doesn't need a complete overhaul (however, I wouldn't be opposed to one if it gave us the level of improvement that ME2 gave us), so BioWare should be able expand a little. Of course, I think they should also err on the side of caution. Exploration is not something done easily, and I'd rather not lose a solid core experience for a bit more size, especially when that size has historically lead to tedium.

 

Despite what some may say, you can, in fact, overdue planetary exploration. A rubber band when stretched can break, and a game when similarly strained can come apart at the seams. Size isn't everything. At the end of the day games are games, and mechanics should be second to nothing. I hope BioWare can please everyone here because exploration is fun, but it's also quite evidently hard to pull off. A good, small game is still a good game.

[Tex]

I myself am quite fond of me1's exploration and was anoyed they took it away "sigh" as for dragon age inqusition I'm really enjoying my female elf mage run. So for me if the new mass effect has playable races ,Asari, quarian are the main two I'd love to be available and would literally give an arm and a leg to be able to play as and add to that the ability to explore like me1 but larger and more detailed well not only would I buy the most expensive version that comes out on day one that they have available but I would play that game just exploring those worlds till the end of my days after finishing the game 100% thru out hundreds of play throughs of cause. not to mention the amount of time I spend In character creators in such games alone. But alas such a game has only existed in my wildest dreams and will probably stay there because everything is pointing towards a human only game wich I've already played to death and have absolutely no interest in doing again but that's just me.

[goishen]

I agree with a lot of the first paragraph.  I, too, started with ME2.  I, too, then bought ME1.  Where I'm having trouble though is here...   When I first landed on planet and had no where to go, I was a tad miffed.  But, seeing as how it was an exploration game, I pressed on.  I soon came to love the ME1 system, but that's only because the maps were so small.  But I can see your point.  The bases/mines were all the same.  But I would much rather have something that I can and should've seen shooting me than something I can't see and don't know where it is killing me.  Note the words shooting and killing. 

 

The thing that I'm not thrilled with is the last paragraph.  If it is a 75+ hour game, I'm not sure that I'm even gonna be able to boot it up for more than one playthrough.  DAI, I have my second character sitting in Haven and waiting for all three of my advisers waiting eagerly to tell me all about what they just did.  They've been waiting for about a month.  'Cause I can't bring myself to double click the icon.

[RIPRemusTheTurian]

You can never overdue planetary exploration.

 

No, but you can overdo it.

[SNascimento]

please bring back exploration ME1 style!

And what style is that? Worlds that are nothing but mountains, copy and paste level design, boring combat, terrible vehicle, some amazing vistas, what else?

[Mcfly616]

All better than running down narrow corridors whilst shooting the mooks that filter out right in your crosshairs.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I found ME1's planet roaming to actually cut down on exploration. You land on a random square mile of planet that happen to have three or so objects of interest, all conveniently marked on the map for you. The artifacts you find also happen to be one of a dozen or so identical pieces which ruins any sense of discovery. It's basically a elaborate version of what you do in the later games. And while I do enjoy the idea of actually landing on a planet and doing something physical vs pressing mini-game buttons the experience is rather dole.

 

As far as combat is concerned it's about equal to linear corridor shooters. Yes it's different and I would rather have a mix of the two rather than an overabundance of either but there are better ways to design levels.

[RoboticWater]

All better than running down narrow corridors whilst shooting the mooks that filter out right in your crosshairs.

You're right, ME1 did it better. First tedious car rides then generic, narrow corridors full of dumb mooks.

[Mcfly616]

 but there are better ways to design levels.

 Certainly. But making endless hallways isn't one of them.

[Mcfly616]

You're right, ME1 did it better. First tedious car rides then generic, narrow corridors full of dumb mooks.

 hmm and yet I was sniping mooks from a mountain side. 

[RoboticWater]

 hmm and yet I was sniping mooks from a mountain side. 

All those times the mooks were actually outside. All two of them.

 

Mass Effect 1 is nice and all, but the ability to shoot people from farther away doesn't exactly make up for sparse, amateurish level design, generic interiors, and little enemy variety.

[Mcfly616]

All those times the mooks were actually outside. All two of them.

 

Mass Effect 1 is nice and all, but the ability to shoot people from farther away doesn't exactly make up for sparse, amateurish level design, generic interiors, and little enemy variety.

 I have more fond memories of those few occasions than I do of the repetitive combat of the 2nd installment. Linear level design and being herded like cattle from start to finish doesn't exactly make up for the lack of the ability to shoot people from further away than the other side of the room.

 

The entirety of ME2 was completely linear level design, and while there were some linear sections in ME1, sniping actually made sense. Where in the sequels can you snipe someone from the top of a mountain? No where. In fact, even though the sniper rifles were improved in the sequels, there's no point in the game where they're practical or even necessary. They were awesome, and their potential was wasted on linear level design.

 

Nobody is arguing that ME1's exploration was great. But I've always stood by the opinion that they should've improved upon the concept instead of cutting it out and implanting some half baked levels made up of corridors.

 

 

 

If ME1 is a measuring stick, they shouldn't worry about overdoing exploration. They should worry about not doing enough of it. They should go above and beyond what was seen in ME1. Flesh it out, add variety, perfect it. Bigger and better.

[goishen]

So what you're arguing for is ME1 style shooting with sniper rifle accuracy and the monocular view of the mako and that this made sniper rifles less useful/worthless in the later games?

 

I'll agree with you up to a point, but nothing can match the power of the Black Widow except for possibly the Executioner's Pistol.  I've consistently taken down two opponents with each (that is one bullet).  And the Black Widow has three shots, compared to the Executioner's Pistol having one.

[RoboticWater]

 I have more fond memories of those few occasions than I do of the repetitive combat of the 2nd installment. Linear level design and being herded like cattle from start to finish doesn't exactly make up for the lack of the ability to shoot people from far away. 

 

The entirety of ME2 was completely linear level design, and while there were some linear sections in ME1, sniping actually made sense. Where in the sequels can you snipe someone from the top of a mountain? No where. In fact, even though the sniper rifles were improved in the sequels, there's no point in the game where they're practical or even necessary. They were awesome, and their potential was wasted on linear level design.

 

Nobody is arguing that ME1's exploration was great. But I've always stood by the opinion that they should've improved upon the concept instead of cutting it out and implanting some half baked levels made up of corridors.

Half-baked is simply untrue. ME2's levels may have been linear, but their design was quite deliberate. It was this very linearity which let the level designers guide the player through a more entertaining, albeit controlled, experience. Of course, we can't forget the incredible bump in detail. ME2's vibrant levels breathed some life into the otherwise sterile and unadorned ME1 managed to bring to the table.

 

Honestly, the only half-baked level design I saw was in ME1 where crates were lazily strewn about in a feeble attempt to differentiate the three kinds of prefab bases and enemies stood like idiots out in the open. And by some do you mean all? Little to no combat in ME1 took place outside, and most of the bits that did were usually sequestered to some kind of basin.

 

In my opinion, sniper rifles were one of ME2's more glaring improvements. Enemies now have a chance to react to your shots. No longer are they simply fishes in barrels that can be snuffed out without slightest of skill, but they force the player to adapt to their movements. Whether you're fighting ranged battles on the Dantius towers or dealing within the medium quarters of Jack's prison, the sniper is challenged, but still useful.

 

As I said earlier, BioWare likely had two options: tighten the scope so they could focus on much needed improvements to combat and level design or waste time fixing the open world whilst working around various technical limitations. Like I also said earlier, BioWare made the right decision.

[Mcfly616]

So what you're arguing for is ME1 style shooting with sniper rifle accuracy and the binocular view of the mako and that this made sniper rifles less useful/worthless in the later games?

 

 

 

 

 

 What? No. That's just one example. I've always been in favor of ME1's style all together. I love the trilogy. But, anybody here who knows me, knows I've always favored the original vision of Mass Effect.  I was one of those people that picked up ME2 on day 1 and felt something was off within the first hour of the game. And it continued to get even more worrisome to me as I started recruiting the team. I kept thinking "okay, soon we'll be exploring planets again. Maybe that tiny skill tree will branch out a bit more after it gets to the fourth spot. Hopefully I'll be shooting up some baddies with my ME1 crew sooner than later." That would never come to fruition. 

 

 

I think Bioware should've improved upon ME1's vision of the MEU, instead of rebooting it in ME2.