What's your argument? The exact same forces that propelled the Warden and the Inquisitor to the top would be available for the next hero, if the circumstances demanded it.
That'd be quite a few cataclysmic events happening in Thedas over a fairly short period of time. It's like the Maker wants Thedas to sink into the ocean....
That'd be quite a few cataclysmic events happening in Thedas over a fairly short period of time. It's like the Maker wants Thedas to sink into the ocean....
Well, he did cast down the magisters which then led to the blights... hell, maybe the maker himself is an archdemon.
Well, he did cast down the magisters which then led to the blights... hell, maybe the maker himself is an archdemon.
That'd certainly be a plot twist.
What's your argument? The exact same forces that propelled the Warden and the Inquisitor to the top would be available for the next hero, if the circumstances demanded it.
And they would demand it. Competing characters would be conveniently sidelined, the same way Riordan and Duncan were. Or converted into support for the new PC. You know the drill.
The exact same forces? Well, the Hero got there either because of noble status or Grey Warden treaties, and in either of those cases it was a specific set of circumstances. The Hero stops a civil war, and unites factions based on what the Hero did for them and/or the Grey Warden treaties. The later won't come into play at all because the Wardens are now in their own civil war. So the only other option is a commoner rising in skill and ability to unite a nation. Aside from the fact that it's been done already, such a thing is unlikely unless the factions have some reason to follow this one new common adventurer.
As for the Inquisitor, that station was made possible through Corypheus, the anchor, Solas, the war, etc. Events years in the making all focusing to that one point of crisis. It's possible that the only reason Justinia's plan to reestablish the Inquisition succeeded is because someone happened to stumble out of the Fade with the power to close rifts. And that is only because Solas saved him.
So again, we're basically running out of ways to make a relevant protagonist. Add to this the fact that there are now about a dozen people in the world of great power who can solve such problems themselves. The only way they can't is if they are nerf'd in the storyline to be useless.
I mean we're basically at the point where the next protagonist will have to be The Formless One. Ancient spirit/demon of immense power, who would be able to take on any form (custom character creator), and then influence the world using its power, knowledge, and cunning to save the world, destroy it, rule it, etc.
Either that or we skip to some future age when the Dragon Age is just legend and all these figures are long gone. Clean slate.
The exact same forces? Well, the Hero got there either because of noble status or Grey Warden treaties, and in either of those cases it was a specific set of circumstances. The Hero stops a civil war, and unites factions based on what the Hero did for them and/or the Grey Warden treaties. The later won't come into play at all because the Wardens are now in their own civil war. So the only other option is a commoner rising in skill and ability to unite a nation. Aside from the fact that it's been done already, such a thing is unlikely unless the factions have some reason to follow this one new common adventurer.
As for the Inquisitor, that station was made possible through Corypheus, the anchor, Solas, the war, etc. Events years in the making all focusing to that one point of crisis. It's possible that the only reason Justinia's plan to reestablish the Inquisition succeeded is because someone happened to stumble out of the Fade with the power to close rifts. And that is only because Solas saved him.
That's not an accurate description of either game. The HOF Blackwall'd the entire way through DA:O, which is to say just had people assume you were a GW (which was only technically true in the sense that you survived past the Joining). The treaties came up exactly once (Orzammar). Otherwise, the GW achieved everything by (1) having people take you at your word about the Blight for (unexplained reasons) and (2) being so awesome at murder that you could murder your way through every political instability problem facing your supposed allies to horse-trade for an army.
The HOF is a person who (1) was awesome at killing and (2) was lucky enough to deal with problems that otherwise resolved themselves after every obstacle was thoroughly killed. Hawke was the reverse, in the sense that (1) Hawke was awesome at killing but (2) every problem exploded horridly after all the obstacles were thoroughly killed (because generally Hawke always arrived too late rather than on-time like the HOF). Exact same set-up, only Hawke faces a plot of less cataclystic significance and Hawke fails through power of plot instead of succeeds.
The Inquisitor is also a person who resolves every problem through thorough killing, only you're right that this time having the Anchor actually made the plot possible (because it was a condition precedent to closing the breach/rifts and made the Inquisition possible). However, the Inquisition only gets formed because (1) you're kind of unkillable (e.g. mountain faills on you, don't die) and (2) you're super awesome at killing.
Almost anyone can be in the same shoes as the HOF. I mean, Hawke is indistinguishable from the HOF other than Hawke failed because of factors outside of Hawke's control whereas the HOF succeeded because of factor's outside of the HOF's control.
That's not an accurate description of either game. The HOF Blackwall'd the entire way through DA:O, which is to say just had people assume you were a GW (which was only technically true in the sense that you survived past the Joining). The treaties came up exactly once (Orzammar). Otherwise, the GW achieved everything by (1) having people take you at your word about the Blight for (unexplained reasons) and (2) being so awesome at murder that you could murder your way through every political instability problem facing your supposed allies to horse-trade for an army.
The HOF is a person who (1) was awesome at killing and (2) was lucky enough to deal with problems that otherwise resolved themselves after every obstacle was thoroughly killed. Hawke was the reverse, in the sense that (1) Hawke was awesome at killing but (2) every problem exploded horridly after all the obstacles were thoroughly killed (because generally Hawke always arrived too late rather than on-time like the HOF). Exact same set-up, only Hawke faces a plot of less cataclystic significance and Hawke fails through power of plot instead of succeeds.
The Inquisitor is also a person who resolves every problem through thorough killing, only you're right that this time having the Anchor actually made the plot possible (because it was a condition precedent to closing the breach/rifts and made the Inquisition possible). However, the Inquisition only gets formed because (1) you're kind of unkillable (e.g. mountain faills on you, don't die) and (2) you're super awesome at killing.
Almost anyone can be in the same shoes as the HOF. I mean, Hawke is indistinguishable from the HOF other than Hawke failed because of factors outside of Hawke's control whereas the HOF succeeded because of factor's outside of the HOF's control.
Sorry to just jump into your conversation, but I really do find it interesting 
! I agree with your conclusion if you rephrase the initial statement. Any PC can be in the same situation as the HOF and succeed as long as they are an exceptional combatant ( Hawke, The Inquisitor ). It's made perfectly clear in each origin story that i've played ( Human Noble, Circle Mage, Dalish Elf ) and each game that the PC's martial prowess is in a league of his/her own.
For example: In the human noble origin Dairren comments on how the PC rekt him in the last tournament handily. Fergus mentions that if he was a Warden he'd be looking at the PC to be the potential recruit. Howe comments on you being trained as a warrior, and then just before the escape Duncan comments on the PC fighting their way through all of Howe's men in the castle to get to him. As a circle mage Irving mentions that the PC's harrowing was the fastest he'd ever seen. The Dalish and Duncan mention how it's astonishing that the PC survived the taint and is still able to fight for as long as they have ( all the way through Ostagar to the joining ) when so many others succumb almost immediately. It is heavily implied that the PC is already a badass, not just some average guy/gal.
To address #1. People of importance knew the HOF was a Warden due to their arrival at Ostagar with Warden Commander Duncan. This included Loghain and King Cailan as well as their guards, soldiers, and anyone else that survived the battle. Not to mention immediately after the battle Loghain spreads pictures of the HOF in order to have you hunted down. Even in Lothering while recruiting Leliana the PC is already being hunted. Hell a lot of people in Ferelden already know the PC is a Warden. So, I disagree on this point, the HOF wasn't "blackwalling" at all.
As far as people taking you at your word that the blight is coming...the game explains that along the way. The humans know the blight is coming because their king and part of the army got owned by the darkspawn at Ostagar, then Lothering gets rekt and as you progress through the game the blight spreads. It's mentioned throughout the game ( especially at the landsmeet ). The dalish ( Zathrian ) can sense the blight, and the dwarves mention something about the darkspawn behaving differently.
Anyway yea, the game itself goes out of it's way to make it known that not just anyone could have done what the HOF did. Same with Hawke in DA2, and the Inquisitor in DA:I. I agree with you that the HOF succeeded in part because of factors that were outside of their control, but their own ability, diplomatic skills, and luck played a huge part in their success as well. Omitting this in an argument kinda makes it seem like you're begging the question. Just sayin.
With all of the above crap being said, Dai makes a very good point that the devs are going to have to get creative if they want to sideline all of the extremely powerful people in Thedas in order to make a believable scenario involving a new PC. Conversely they could make you start as someone in a position of power who has some form of credibility, so that the powerful factions of Thedas would be more inclined to support the new PC. I'm sure the writers can come up with something.
As AlanC9 already stated, we all know the drill.
HOF will conveniently be sidelined with a codex entry saying that he finally pierced the heavens through sheer force of will and one shotted the maker. Now he's kickin it as the ruler of the Golden City and worshipped as Tiber Septim II. Hawke will be off nailing his/her LI, and the Inquisitor will be off inquiring about things. The moons will align and the next PC will be just as badass as the other three and get the job done xD.
Knowing this i'd rather have the option to just play one of the current protagonists in the next game, preferably The Warden. I'd also like the devs to avoid sidelining people who should be present in whatever story they come up with. I'll keep dreaming lol.
That's not an accurate description of either game. The HOF Blackwall'd the entire way through DA:O, which is to say just had people assume you were a GW (which was only technically true in the sense that you survived past the Joining). The treaties came up exactly once (Orzammar). Otherwise, the GW achieved everything by (1) having people take you at your word about the Blight for (unexplained reasons) and (2) being so awesome at murder that you could murder your way through every political instability problem facing your supposed allies to horse-trade for an army.
The HOF is a person who (1) was awesome at killing and (2) was lucky enough to deal with problems that otherwise resolved themselves after every obstacle was thoroughly killed. Hawke was the reverse, in the sense that (1) Hawke was awesome at killing but (2) every problem exploded horridly after all the obstacles were thoroughly killed (because generally Hawke always arrived too late rather than on-time like the HOF). Exact same set-up, only Hawke faces a plot of less cataclystic significance and Hawke fails through power of plot instead of succeeds.
The Inquisitor is also a person who resolves every problem through thorough killing, only you're right that this time having the Anchor actually made the plot possible (because it was a condition precedent to closing the breach/rifts and made the Inquisition possible). However, the Inquisition only gets formed because (1) you're kind of unkillable (e.g. mountain faills on you, don't die) and (2) you're super awesome at killing.
Almost anyone can be in the same shoes as the HOF. I mean, Hawke is indistinguishable from the HOF other than Hawke failed because of factors outside of Hawke's control whereas the HOF succeeded because of factor's outside of the HOF's control.
The Hero can keep to himself about being a Warden with most people, but some will always identify you as such. The Treaties come up to gain access to Orzammar and Zathrian I think will always mention it at least once when you first meet him. Also, it is possible to bring it up yourself numerous times, if that's how you wish to play.
The Hero's abilities are only truly recognized in certain Origin stories like the noble or mage. It is possible to build a weak Hero in the game. Also, all Heroes technically fail at Ishal and need Flemeth to save them, much to my annoyance. So mainly their success relies on the help that others give them. Like I said.
The Inquisition was formed because Justinia decreed it should if the conclave failed. My point is that the Inquisition would have gone nowhere if the Herald had not made it through the rift. Also, the Herald's life was saved by Solas.
Whatever reasons you think the Hero or Champion succeeded or failed, it all required special circumstances. So any new protagonist would need similar circumstances, like if you pick a mage, you originate in Tevinter and you do something astounding there which leads to obtaining and harnessing great power to become a world player. Or if you pick a Qunari, you are the best warrior they have, so you are sent to take the Qun to the foolish humans. Or a Dalish pick results in your character being the most knowledgeable in terms of Elven lore and artifacts and thus in the best position to advise the world on related matters. The point is that they will have to really raise the bar for any new protagonist because of what state the world is in at the moment. There has to be a reason why people regard the character. The Warden was because of the Blight. The Inquisitor was because of the Breach. Hawke was because of the mage/templar war. The new protag would need a reason for people to care about it.
Which is why I think it's better to just bring back the Hero. The Hero's importance is already known.
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