There's no need for that. Just give me mod rights and I'll crush any Player rebellion as well as any BW retaliation. I don't play favorites when both kids are acting up.
BSN doesn't need a CM. It needs a Sheriff.
*This message was brought you by the Elect Shadohz For Sheriff campaign*
I for one welcome our new Shadohz over...lord? Lady? Whatever.
Either a personal attack is wrong or it isn't. Either calling a customer a villain is professional or it isn't. As we're constantly striving for here, can you not call attention to or criticise someone's actions without resorting to name-calling?
The attack was public; it would be appropriate if an employee publically expressed some sort of regret over resorting to name-calling regarding a customer.
My point is that it wasn't "an attack". Re-read what I wrote. You're framing it like Amelia was intending to personally attack Penguin when she was commenting on Penguin's behavior. She wasn't simply name calling as she used a specific expression "....hero to villain". I don't know how else to explain this distinction.
I can understand how someone might feel that I was blaming it entirely on the forum. I did take a particularly strong stance because my job for the past few months has been researching and assessing ways to increase dev interaction with the forum. I don't consider it a good thing when I or another dev would rather talk about game issues in another space. The immediate consequence, based on discussions I had with other devs, other fans from the forum, and even people down at PAX South, was that the weekend events were having a discouraging effect on engagement from people in those groups. This isn't just bad for devs, it is bad for other fans.
Given that our dev interaction in our forum is voluntary, my post was as much publicly communicating that how things had played out was very compromising to that end. For myself it meant reflection on how we consider our interactions and providing that feedback when I was able to return to Edmonton. Especially since my own posting history and the posting history of other devs was referenced.
I agree that my post uses safe language, and I agree that that's not the best solution. My preference is that devs try to speak as candidly as possible and to the best of my ability I try to interact in that way when I am here. Given the circumstances, however, we needed to take a strong line that however we got to where we were before the weekend, what happened then isn't a reliable solution. As long as dev interaction is voluntary, BioWare needs to make sure that devs feel safe posting otherwise everyone loses. I can be a victim of this as well as I personally felt reticent to post because some felt that my engagement in one thread was unfair to issues of another thread. And I do mean everyone loses, because I have continued posting on the forum somewhat regularly since March 2012 because in general I actually kind of enjoy it and you all can be a lot of fun sometimes! It's also very valuable to connect with fans about certain issues and various types of feedback. This is valuable for both the devs and the fans for sure. For myself it also has a humanizing affect a lot of the times.
Part of the challenge with voluntary interaction, though, is that it means that I'll have a tendency to self select where I post (I have stated before I have a huge bias to view threads I've already posted in, simply because I tend to click on those ones more). Maybe this means, at least on some level, there should be more mandatory interaction? Maybe this means evaluating how the voluntary posts happen? Maybe it needs to be more closely monitored so that we can step in before we have groups of the fanbase getting to the point that they did. With that comes the checks and balances: if we have more mandatory posting, we still need to make sure that the devs that are interacting feel safe. The alternative, I feel, means too much PR speak and not enough candidness, which can often still be aggravating because then, as some have taken my post, it seems like I'm still talking past you which certainly doesn't help the matter out at all for a lot of people.
But I did feel it was necessary to quickly pull things back from where they were and to be direct in resetting the forum discussion away from where it was. I don't think that this makes the voiced concerns of the forum invalid, nor is the desire for improved interaction with BioWare unreasonable.
Clearly there was a breakdown and it's never entirely one party's fault. Some peoplewereare feeling neglected and ignored. But lets move this in another direction going forward and away from how things played out a few days ago. Part of that indeed means that I'll be spending more time here as well. Sounds like Conal will be as well.
I can understand how someone might feel that I was blaming it entirely on the forum. I did take a particularly strong stance because my job for the past few months has been researching and assessing ways to increase dev interaction with the forum. I don't consider it a good thing when I or another dev would rather talk about game issues in another space. The immediate consequence, based on discussions I had with other devs, other fans from the forum, and even people down at PAX South, was that the weekend events were having a discouraging effect on engagement from people in those groups. This isn't just bad for devs, it is bad for other fans.
This is something I would like to see addressed...
I'm an *old school* gamer. I'm *MUCH* more likely to go to the forums hosted by a game developer to look for solutions to issues with their titles.
My first thought isn't to go to Twitter, Reddit, or even the publisher's website when I have a problem. Historically, that's what the developer's forums were for... Communication with the customers. I'd like to see more of a presence in the "Official Forums."
On that subject... The multiplayer portion of the forum *really* could use another subforum for troubleshooting. The MP component of the game is different enough from the SP to warrant it, in my opinion. As it stands now, when we have a problem, everyone just piles into the Combat Strategy subforum where it can get in the way of people trying to find other kinds of info not relevant to bugs or glitches.
Finally, I would like to thank Mr. Schumacher and Mr. Pierse for coming here and addressing the situation first hand. Thoughtful and well worded responses are just what we needed.
apart from the recent forum argument
what recently the DA team is doing
like what bug you are trying to fix, may be not succeed at the moment
what DLC is making
Guest_Mortiel_*
As Allan has said, our team should be better about communicating about patches and patch notes and I'm sorry that we've not delivered yet on that front. I was attempting to fill the community in by asking the dev team questions, and posting explanations for the key and pot issues, but those things should have been better spelled out originally in the patch notes so that my interaction wasn't required on those fronts.
I love Devs
Youtube channels are stupid
Please don't nerf the Keeper
You know my stance on this, Amelia. Better communication was all this ever was about. Not that you didn't communicate. Not that Allen didn't. Honestly, the patch 1.03 notes really was the straw that broke the camel's back after not hearing much news on the work being done. I can see it upsetting people. More transparent and detailed updates and patch notes would go miles to help.
Detailed patch notes would have still upset some people (some because things were all 100% fixed, and some just aren't ever satisfied lol). Many of us would realize that devs don't wield magic wands. I seriously don't know how many times I've heard that being said in my office...
To Allen: Whatever happens, please do not make dev interaction mandatory. If mandatory communication is needed, hire a Community Manager with thick skin (or as you call it, "fire proof suit") that can dance around the fire from the worst this forums could give. Let the devs come as they will. Just my suggestion.
For me it was just the vagueness and accuracy of the notes that became the issue. That's really an easy fix.
Guest_Mortiel_*
I love Devs
Youtube channels are stupid
Please don't nerf the Keeper
I think it is great that you guys are trying to figure out the best, most appropriate way to interact with this community. However, we are fans which is short for "fanatic" and can be overly impassioned bunch. That doesn't excuse behavior, language, and the way we should be treating each other but I think it is important for the devs to keep in back of their mind when posting here. I think healthy boundaries is important for dev sanity while still maintaining authenticity when communicating here. Bottomline just don't get sucked into our negative BS but focus on the positive comments many have here on the BSN. Far too often, negative behavior is rewarded with attention from devs and other BSN forumites.
Youtube channels are stupid
So you want me to delete armor preview vids off my channel?
Can we get a list of hidden information like internal cooldowns Ect...? Not in-game, just like a giant devpost would be amazing,
Can we get a list of hidden information like internal cooldowns Ect...? Not in-game, just like a giant devpost would be amazing,
*chuckle* I saw your uneditted comment.
Glad to see you guys are being more open now at least. I can see the potential in the multiplayer, hope you guys give it some love so I can remember it fondly as I did Mass Effect 3 mutli.
Also, when's Sandal? 
Kids, a contribution from an outside observer:
I've been a fanatical player of ME3MP for a longish while, far longer than the SP (due to the reason-that-must-not-be-named, of course, which IMHO BioWare still has not addressed properly*), and I keep looking forward to having fun with DAIMP. Except I can't.
The PC version is loaded to the brim with bugs, glitches, complications and the unfortunate regionlocking. This makes playing the SP a chore, but it makes playing the MP version an uncomfortability. I keep lurking in the MP forums hoping to see something like "yay, patch v X.XX fixed everything!" to signal for me that it's time for me to start playing.
Why?
I'm an obsessive worker. I do overtimes, I strive for good quality of what I put out and I yearn for my work to be appreciated. As such, I don't have a lot of gaming time, so when I come home and crave quality multiplayer entertainment, I do it with a product I know I can trust not to waste my time on five hours of matchmaking before I can play a single session, or not to crap out on me mid-session. Which is why ever since ME3MP stopped getting new updates, my primary game of fun has been Warframe (which I heartily recommend, as at the core it's kinda similar - space ninja cyborgs zoom around spaceships and space planets, shoot glittery things at hideous things and generally have fun - except with parkour and random level generation), because even though the devs on that don't always do what the community wants, they constantly engage the community, listen to feedback, and provide updates and fixes and content expansions (at least on the PC, which is the primary platform) almost daily. I'm well aware their business model is different from yours, being a free-to-play game (did I mention it's properly free, like, the only things you can't buy with in-game earn-for-play currencies are cosmetic or rewards for event challenges?), but there's a catch here.
You're a for-profit company. You want those profits to happen. Profits do not happen when customers are unhappy.
If the fiasco with Dragon Age II hasn't taught BioWare's employees that their fanbase generally overreacts to misinterpretable statements, and very badly reacts to hostile statements (of which, I'm sad to say, Mr. Gaider is a master), it's not the players' fault.
If the fiasco conga line with Mass Effect 3 hasn't taught BioWare's employees that their community management is full of problems (some of which have since been rectified, such as the removal of Mr "I Ban People I Don't Agree With" and Ms "I Cosplay, Therefore I Am A Better Fan Than You", but the subsequent solutions are as problematic**); that years of not listening to fan feedback do sometimes backfire; what "too little, too late" means; or how it helps for one BioWare project team to look at what the other team did right and did wrong -- none of that is the players' fault either.
A commonly used turn of phrase to refer to the BioWare forums - both before the half-wipe, half-move from the BSN to what we have now - is "toxic community". The toxicity, they say***, is there because the fans are unsatisfiable, the developers harassed and the forums overtaken by trolls and <censored>posters. The fact that at the peak of the 'dark age' between the ending fallout and the release of Leviathan DLC most of the problems came from the community moderators not so much moderating but rather engaging in flame wars WITH the forumites, was always quietly ignored.
The debacle with the creation and deletion of subforums along with their entire contents, ignoring pleas for better forum structure and more systematic approach to taking feedback on bugs was just icing on the cake. The ME3MP update team seemed to be the only bits of professional action on the entire forum.
TLDR: BSN didn't have moderator accountability, BSF doesn't have moderator accountability. BSN didn't have meaningful dev interaction outside of voluntary posting, 90% of which seemed to be Allan alone, BSF doesn't have meaningful dev interaction outside of voluntary posting, 70% of which seems to be Allan alone.
Frankly, I don't really feel the lessons that should have been learned, have been learned; and the forum wipe was completely unnecessary (all it did was lose me a lot of my plot analysis essays and convince a lot of the forumgoers, including those that were good contributors, to leave and never come back).
I thank you for your time, and sincerely wish you better luck with vetting the people you let manage the forums. Having a more systematic approach to "we're listening" than sometimes posting "we're listening" (but not visibly reacting on what you're ostensibly listening to) would also help.
_______
* - A fundamental issue with BioWare PR is the adamant incapability of understanding that, sometimes, saying "We dun goofed" is better than posting a multi-page treaty on how their work is hard and we are being impolite. The last time BioWare's representatives stated something like the above, officially or otherwise, is, oh, I don't know, two, three forum wipes away? Before the BSN was created, which means pre-EA-acquisition, another unfortunate parallel for haters to latch on to.
** - The depersonalization of the moderators is a terrible action, as it removes all accountability in the pursuit of removing any potential for ad hominem attacks like the ones everyone loved to sling at Mr. Priestly and Mr. Woo. That said, they kinda sorta deserved some of it, because their bedside manner was the equivalent of smoking in a pneumonia patient's ward. You can be a strict moderator without deliberately insulting the people you moderate.
*** - This, by the way, was one of the lessons Gamergate would have taught gamerkind had it not been corrupted by both good and bad people focusing on the feminism issue rather than the slightly larger "don't be a dick to anyone" issue.
[PC WITH DCL]Just guys to know, after "stealth patch" i played 30 perilous 20 treatering matches and key droped 100% even when i have some elementalist spawning firestorm like no tomorow.
P.S: remove some graphic effect from firestorm, especialy shaking, thx
Oh ffs...this? Why? It accomplishes nothing constructive.
I see Rutger Hauer, but I hear the Necromancer speaking. How is this possible? Must be all the mushrooms I ate...
I am glad devs starting to use again official forum for communication with fans,so I wanna ask Mr. Schumacher can we expect comeback of balance changes thread like we had in ME3MP?
You know,Tuesday was very important day for us
At the Devs,
Can we please for the love of god, just get some solid information.
At the moment everything about DA3MP is left to speculation.
We don't even know exactly what stats do.
Patch notes are ambiguous at best.
I dont think anyone expects you to reply to every post, but atleast acknowledge bugs so we know whats what and we know that they're being worked on.
To put it simple, the more we know, the less we have to guess about and we all know how the saying goes about assumptions.
At the Devs,
Can we please for the love of god, just get some solid information.
At the moment everything about DA3MP is left to speculation.
We don't even know exactly what stats do.
Patch notes are ambiguous at best.
I dont think anyone expects you to reply to every post, but atleast acknowledge bugs so we know whats what and we know that they're being worked on.
To put it simple, the more we know, the less we have to guess about and we all know how the saying goes about assumptions.
http://forum.bioware...nd-mechanics/
Its same for Mp.
Just little searching..
Also Mr.Schumacher,
do you have any plans on improving matchmaking system?
I guess bulk of DAMP players is coming from NA,but please don’t forget denizens of 3.world countries .
This weekend I spent more than 15 minutes looking for Perilous players,so I had to give up.That thing would never,ever happened in Mass effect 3.
Note: I tidied up the thread somewhat to keep from things derailing based on some older posts that I felt were derailing to the thread.
I think it is great that you guys are trying to figure out the best, most appropriate way to interact with this community. However, we are fans which is short for "fanatic" and can be overly impassioned bunch.
Agreed that people can be intense/passionate, and that that isn't bad in and of itself. It conveys investment which I think we all want from our games. It's always a fine line to balance and part of what I've been frantically researching on is trying to find ways to empower our users to help everyone curate an area that they feel comfortable discussing in. But I digress and that isn't specifically related to this thread
I am glad devs starting to use again official forum for communication with fans,so I wanna ask Mr. Schumacher can we expect comeback of balance changes thread like we had in ME3MP?
At 1:30 AM from home I'm afraid I do not have an answer to this! I'll touch base with the MP team tomorrow to see if they can get Conal or myself some details so that we can let people know what has changed.
Nothing confirmed yet, but I know we were considering having a sticky thread that was "just the facts" with the information (no discussion) for quick reference to anyone coming in, while allowing another thread to exist for fans to talk/give feedback etc. I know this type of exchange works for me when I follow games myself, and I think it might be similar to what Mass Effect did with their MP? I'll have more information for you tomorrow (I have an appointment in the morning so I likely won't see the thread again until tomorrow afternoon my time).
Same goes for your matchmaking inquiry.
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