351 réponses à ce sujet

[luism]

We're fans though not loons short for lunatics lol. Threatening, harassing and bashing ain't cool! It's like my kids karate instructor used to say respect you have to give it to get it .

[TormDK]

If you can get us "Just the facts" Allan, you will be an unsung hero in my book!

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Note: I tidied up the thread somewhat to keep from things derailing based on some older posts that I felt were derailing to the thread.

 

 

 

 

Agreed that people can be intense/passionate, and that that isn't bad in and of itself. It conveys investment which I think we all want from our games. It's always a fine line to balance and part of what I've been frantically researching on is trying to find ways to empower our users to help everyone curate an area that they feel comfortable discussing in. But I digress and that isn't specifically related to this thread

 

 

 

 

 

At 1:30 AM from home I'm afraid I do not have an answer to this! I'll touch base with the MP team tomorrow to see if they can get Conal or myself some details so that we can let people know what has changed.

 

Nothing confirmed yet, but I know we were considering having a sticky thread that was "just the facts" with the information (no discussion) for quick reference to anyone coming in, while allowing another thread to exist for fans to talk/give feedback etc. I know this type of exchange works for me when I follow games myself, and I think it might be similar to what Mass Effect did with their MP?  I'll have more information for you tomorrow (I have an appointment in the morning so I likely won't see the thread again until tomorrow afternoon my time).

 

Same goes for your matchmaking inquiry.

Thank you sir.

These are little things that made Brojo hero in community.

[Shadohz]

 

To mirror Allan's point, and to re-iterate something I said in a previous post - I also enjoy interacting with our fans, even in these forums, and the reason I'm here is because of the positive impact meeting our fans has had on me during the dev cycle and even post launch. When I visited a number of PAX events last year we were in the middle of serious crunch, and knowing that people really care lifted my spirits and helped me soldier through to November. Our fans are unique, and awesome, more passionate and creative than any other and I really appreciate them, you, yes you : )

Yes, yes I know I'm awesome already. Oh you meant everyb... my bad. The diehard BW fans tend to be a more mature core than other publishers I come across. That's why I like and post in BSN. BW is one of the last few GPs that still has a somewhat decent reputation among gamers. We want to see it maintain that. Better yet we want "old" BW back. Of course we know that appealing to the pre-teens is a circumstance beyond Dev control. We know what you're capable of so it's a bit disheartening that things had to digress to this point. I can't begin to express the amount of joy I've gotten from the hundreds of hours of playing ME. I look forward to the same experience from DA (errr whenever I start playing SP).

 

 

 

To touch on the things that happened over the weekend - The reality is that not everyone is always going to like what I or other employees have to say when we post here, and when that happens forum goers are expected to handle it in a mature and civil manner. To put the matter to rest, no one on these forums is going to get anyone fired. Furthermore, as others have well explained I think its unfortunate what happened. I respected Penguin as a community member and really appreciated his contributions to the forum. His behavior crossed a number of lines from which there was no turning back and in response he's no longer welcome here. When I commented on his behavior it was to highlight the stark change that I am sincerely saddened by, to say that it was a personal attack is grasping for conflict where none exists.

Perma-bans are reserved for the worst-of-the-worst. This is not the way of things when settling a disagreement in BSN. A 1 vs 1 Thunderdome is in order. I challenge anyone from the Dev team. Pick your champion.

Challenge: Best 2 out of 3 on Perilous using one kit from each class.

If I win, PF's sentence gets reduced to 3 mths. If I lose, the ban stays AND I say nothing negative about EA or BW (for 3 mths) AND I close my ME3MP issue.

 

Do you accept this challenge? I can understand if you're scared to face off against a powerplayer. Ya chicken? 

 

As Allan has said, our team should be better about communicating about patches and patch notes and I'm sorry that we've not delivered yet on that front. I was attempting to fill the community in by asking the dev team questions, and posting explanations for the key and pot issues, but those things should have been better spelled out originally in the patch notes so that my interaction wasn't required on those fronts.

 

One last quick thing - Please be excellent to eachother, I know I say that a lot but these forums are not your average run of the mill gaming forum. They are the BioWare official forums, and provide a unique chance to interact with the developers of your favorite games. To be a part of this community is a privilege, your behavior is going to be held to a higher standard, forum goers must expect that and must expect it from eachother.

To be fair, it was the swift kick in the butt that was needed. Sometimes people say ugly things to each other they don't mean to reach an understanding that isn't being met. "I'm sorry" is usually the best method for mending the fences.

 

p.s. You and the some of the other devs still don't have nicknames.

 

edit: Have they resolved the RTC and key glitch?

[Catastrophy]

Note: I tidied up the thread somewhat to keep from things derailing based on some older posts that I felt were derailing to the thread.

 

 

 

 

Agreed that people can be intense/passionate, and that that isn't bad in and of itself. It conveys investment which I think we all want from our games. It's always a fine line to balance and part of what I've been frantically researching on is trying to find ways to empower our users to help everyone curate an area that they feel comfortable discussing in. But I digress and that isn't specifically related to this thread

 

 

 

 

 

At 1:30 AM from home I'm afraid I do not have an answer to this! I'll touch base with the MP team tomorrow to see if they can get Conal or myself some details so that we can let people know what has changed.

 

Nothing confirmed yet, but I know we were considering having a sticky thread that was "just the facts" with the information (no discussion) for quick reference to anyone coming in, while allowing another thread to exist for fans to talk/give feedback etc. I know this type of exchange works for me when I follow games myself, and I think it might be similar to what Mass Effect did with their MP?  I'll have more information for you tomorrow (I have an appointment in the morning so I likely won't see the thread again until tomorrow afternoon my time).

 

Same goes for your matchmaking inquiry.

 

Definitely, the Balance change thread was once even kept "unlocked" so we could post in it (that was funny). In fact the weekly balance change thread was a source of emotion, trollism, even viable discussion. It was a source for new stuff, even if no new content was published, kept the community interested, provided entertainment and explained in the wake of the recurrent publications a lot of how things really worked.

It also inspired quite some people to run tests and gain further insight to the mechanics, I think. Those players did a hell of a job to make MEMP more accessible (just look at Dragonracer's thread).

 

And in case you need some help with how things worked back then, just ask around some co-workers or call Eric. The latter is still kept in my "fond memory" section because he announced the "tech explosions" balance change. Best thing ever!

[Cette]

If you can get us "Just the facts" Allan, you will be an unsung hero in my book!

To be fair we can't count out full on singing just yet.

@Amelia
I don't really feel your post indicates any lessons being learned from this whole mess. Penguin's a prickly little thing and I agree he went too far but he was not unprovoked.

All I ask is that you look at what you're about to throw out all with the BW logo next to your name and all and ask yourself "will this make things worse?"

As someone who was somewhat defending you or at least defending reasoned discourse I'm providing that constructive criticism free of charge.

Overall this communication thing looks like progress and I'm all for it. Good show Allan.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Definitely, the Balance change thread was once even kept "unlocked" so we could post in it (that was funny). In fact the weekly balance change thread was a source of emotion, trollism, even viable discussion. It was a source for new stuff, even if no new content was published, kept the community interested, provided entertainment and explained in the wake of the recurrent publications a lot of how things really worked.

It also inspired quite some people to run tests and gain further insight to the mechanics, I think. Those players did a hell of a job to make MEMP more accessible (just look at Dragonracer's thread).

 

And in case you need some help with how things worked back then, just ask around some co-workers or call Eric. The latter is still kept in my "fond memory" section because he announced the "tech explosions" balance change. Best thing ever!

When I think about that day when they left BC thread unlock,I can’t stop tears.

 

Just imagine,what will happen when they announce in future DAMP BC thread something like this:

"Amount of healing received from HoK items halved on Perilous"

[Allan Schumacher]

I edited the thread title to make it a bit clearer. I appreciate the "thanks" but it's not really necessary. I also added a link to this thread to the sticky post.

[HowYouSoGudd]

http://forum.bioware...nd-mechanics/  

 

Its same for Mp.

 

Just little searching..

My point exactly.

Players had to figure it out for themselves, and the dev's are yet to verify it.

What we claim as fact is basically just theory crafting, testing and an assumption.

I'd love to see an official post or anything that says that MP stats are the same as SP, and even then we still wont know if there's hard/soft caps on stats and attributes.

[ALTBOULI]

Its true, a number of posters did get out of line with their complaints. The game is still riddled with bugs but they should have conveyed their feedback better rather than mindlessly attack bioware employees. But in saying that Bioware are not without fault in the way they conducted themselves. I appreciate things got a little heated but getting mods to delete threads where the poster was asking for feedback and punishing posters who simply wanted a channel to express their concerns...Come on Bioware.

We should be able to express our oppinion of the game and raise concerns (provided that it is in a constructive way) without fearing that we will be censored for doing so. I'm willing to give Bioware time to address issues with the game, and allowing us to communicate with Bioware and get feedback from devs will no doubt help calm the community who feel that they have been left in the dark

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Little suggestion for the matchmaking (I know I am boring for some people,but that is the biggest problem for me).

It would be nice,that we can choose  regions we’d like to play.Warframe has system like that and I find it pretty good.

So,it is like 5 Am in your country and except you only two other people playing DAMP.Bam,with one click change the continent and play with Aussies,if you desire so.

[Torkelight]

It has finally happened. The communication from the devs that probably has been requested since November. I welcome the change with open arms and hope you will spend more time talking about bug fixing and balance changing than tea time conversations. Because that is what has been needed all the way since release, and especially after the first DLC you released.

 

I dont know if my point has come across to bioware people at all - but just to sum up what has gone wrong: 

 

Initially the game worked quite fine (atleast for me) on release, but after the destruction DLC it became a bugfest extraordinaire. And then there was a stream which I have actually rewatched actually giving small tidbits of false information - like that giants might throw rocks at you, which they never do. Then it seemed like the whole bioware devteam and everyone else went on holiday and left the community with a completely bug ridden game. I'm pretty sure it took between 1 and 2 months to get any lifesign from Bioware in form of a patch or any information. The only thing people saw was some posts from Amelia, which didnt talk specifically about the problems the community were having, which only made everything worse. 

Then the solution patch came out, which fixed some instances of gamebreaking bugs, but most of them kept persistent. This after the patch notes stated atleast that the key bug would be fixed, which it wasnt in its entirety (it took me half a game with the elementalist to encounter the key bug), and without notice the Reaver was nerfed which seemed, and still seem unnescessary. Again - no real communication from anyone at Bioware. 

 

Then there was another stream from bioware in relation to the latest weekend challenge - where they obviously played without the DLC but still talked about it constantly on stream, which to me makes no sense really. If they wanted people to get it, for FREE as was constantly being repeated, why wouldnt they play it themselves? After completing said weekend challenge, I personally havent played at all, but I have noticed that there has been a new patch out and what it has fixed or not fixed I just dont have any idea.

 

Then we come up to this point - where you have started communicating with the community, which you should have been doing all along really. It all seems pretty poorly planned out to me honestly. Having said that I really do believe that its better to be late than not to arrive at all - so I welcome this change to the forums and hope that it will be sustained, and that it will give us some valuable information as to what is going on with bug fixes and preferably tease us as to what is going to happen in the future. Also, you should listen to what the community says about what they'd like in the game and what they feel needs to be fixed, as this is valuable feedback for you. My experience is that as the developers are the expert of the code behind the game, the gamers are the ones that are the actual experts on the game - as they spend most of their time inside it. 

 

Just view all this as constructive criticism.

Lastly I'd like to do a few comments on the whole Penguin-Amelia thing. First of all, I think that the thread that Penguin created wasnt nescessarily the first and the only post that talked about the non-communication issue or the state of the game, but it certainly was the one were the trolls of all kinds popped up to voice their dismay, some more unreasonable than others. I personally believe the whole problem with Amelia was just a stupid derailment of the actual problem. The problem wasnt that Amelia was making questionable posts and saying things that some people (some specific people actually) reacted to, or shall I say OVERreacted to, the problem was that they didnt contain any usefull information for anyone. I think that should be enough of a hint as to what is needed here. I feel the whole Amelia-gate-video by Penguin, allthough it touched somewhat briefly on issues that I was concerned about, was more focused on petty, stupid little things, than anything of actual use. 

 

I also do recommend Amelia to refrain from posting to much here, as people are just gonna watch it and look for things to pick on, and anytime I see her posts I dread the reactions that might come.

 

Well, thats my 2 cents on the issue. Have fun. I might see you on the DLC. Right now I am having WAY to much fun playing Heroes of the Storm. I had a lot of fun with this game though, that has to be said. I just hope you have big ambitions for it, because if they match mine I think you will have the greatest coop dungeoncrawler game on the market. Atleast that I know of. And if it works that is. Right now it just feels limited, like a seed buried in the ground. Maybe it will grow, maybe it wont. Only time will tell.

[coldflame]

As much as I appreciate dialogues between fans and devs are finally going to be established, let me ask you a simple question Allan. Would there be any movement towards forming a channel of communication if there was no "rabblerousing" going on?

[Cheviot]

I'd much rather that the developers of games spent their time developing games rather than doubling as customer service. Instead of creating a dialogue that'll be more trouble than it's worth to maintain, why not just put up a public bug list or something, so people know that their issues are at least being looked at, and they can see how many are fixed over time. Also, devs should never talk directly to the fanbase after the game is released except in person at conventions and stuff.  Online, there's a tendency for some people to use anonymity to cause trouble.

[rlro]

Telling me "I don't like how this class or feature works" or "I think this thing is broken, and you should take a look at it" is perfectly acceptable.

Telling me that I am a thieving liar who sleeps in a cave full of money like some kind of dragon is obviously not okay.

 

Could you give us some information regarding the two most annoying game-breaking bugs that currently exist in MP:

 

1 - The infinite black loading screen when starting a game whose host is away from you (it happens 100% of the time when the ping time is above a certain threshold - very easy to reproduce)

 

2 - The impossible to move bug when joining an already in progress game, which seems to happen around 50% of the time (to me at least). This one doesn't seem directly related to lag/ping time.

 

Are you working on them? Will they be fixed? Can you at least confirm that you are aware of them? These two bugs makes the MP experience really, really frustrating.

[DragonRacer]

Note: I tidied up the thread somewhat to keep from things derailing based on some older posts that I felt were derailing to the thread.

 

 

 

 

Agreed that people can be intense/passionate, and that that isn't bad in and of itself. It conveys investment which I think we all want from our games. It's always a fine line to balance and part of what I've been frantically researching on is trying to find ways to empower our users to help everyone curate an area that they feel comfortable discussing in. But I digress and that isn't specifically related to this thread

 

 

 

 

 

At 1:30 AM from home I'm afraid I do not have an answer to this! I'll touch base with the MP team tomorrow to see if they can get Conal or myself some details so that we can let people know what has changed.

 

Nothing confirmed yet, but I know we were considering having a sticky thread that was "just the facts" with the information (no discussion) for quick reference to anyone coming in, while allowing another thread to exist for fans to talk/give feedback etc. I know this type of exchange works for me when I follow games myself, and I think it might be similar to what Mass Effect did with their MP?  I'll have more information for you tomorrow (I have an appointment in the morning so I likely won't see the thread again until tomorrow afternoon my time).

 

Same goes for your matchmaking inquiry.

 

Yes, if I recall correctly, the ME3MP forum had a stickied thread specifically for balance changes. Eric Fagnan maintained it and would update it (with a new post each week... the thread was locked, so only his posts were there so you could go straight to the newest post to see the most recent changes). These balance changes occurred every Tuesday, though not via a patch or download... seemed more like something changed on your server side, perhaps?

 

At any rate, I definitely recall that and while many folks would rejoice or complain about whatever the weekly balance changes were, it was definitely excellent and appreciated to know what was happening rather than playing in a vacuum, so to speak. I think something like that would make people here happy to at least have the knowledge, and also provide a starting point for discussions on things fans feel would benefit from buffs or experience pain from nerfs, etc.

[DisturbedJim83]

Let's not dog pile Allan for being the messenger (especially when his point is about dog piling on the devs who come here).

We know that you guys want to see more communication from the devs and more transparency in what we're doing and why, and that's something we need to work on.

Please also don't misunderstand what Allan was getting at: You are totally welcome to give us feedback and to talk to us about what you'd like to see more/less/changed/tweaked/what have you. Your feedback is an invaluable resource to the dev team.

What we can't be having, whether it's against a developer or another poster, is folk making personal attacks against one another.

 

Telling me "I don't like how this class or feature works" or "I think this thing is broken, and you should take a look at it" is perfectly acceptable.

Telling me that I am a thieving liar who sleeps in a cave full of money like some kind of dragon is obviously not okay.

 

There's no reason we can't be respectful of one another while were on here. Let's also please avoid pointing fingers at one another in the wake of all of this and focus instead on what we all can do to have better interactions between our developers and the community.

Thing is Conal respecting each other is fine and dandy but here's the thing respect is earned not given,Bioware disrespected its fanbase by turning a single player RPG franchise into some half-assed MMORPG until about 3 months before the games release at every panel they dodged any questions about the existence of MP saying it was a "hypothetical exercise" in essence lying by omission.

 

They released a video claiming that the game was "made by PC gamers for PC Gamers"which turned out to be a outright lie and total fabrication with most of the PC functionality ie a good working M/KB UI and controls either stripped out or not included.Nearly 3 months later we have had zero meaningful communication from Bioware and not even a apology for the deception just a bunch of worthless "PR Speak".To add further insult to injury the only time anything is heard from Bioware Devs like serrah's Darrah and Laidlaw and the official games twitter and Facebook accounts is a tweet/post about yet another award they have won for GOTY/LGBT acceptance etc.

 

In short it gives the impression of "Ha Ha Ha we have Yo money fool whatcha gonna do bout it ? Nuttin thats what".There is only 1 way to fix this hole that Bioware dug themselves into:

 

1)Start with a public apology.

2)Dispense with the constant "GOTY buy me GOTY buy me GOTY buy me" hype 

3)Fix the game because a collection of Tavern Songs "free for a limited time" is nowhere near sufficient compensation for this train wreck.

4)Do not ever,ever let Amelia post again calling Penguin a "villain" and accusing him of editing her posts(which he didn't)in order to cover her own hide is not acceptable.

[kalenath]

While there is much they cannot tell us, often because it is subject to change, this company's devs seem to be MUCH more 'community;' oriented than most other big name company devs I might mention.

 

*cough* Ubisoft *cough*

 

Game developers are a strange breed. I have known a few personally, and they do NOT get any stranger than the ones I knew. (DON'T ASK!)

 

Communication can be a good thing, or a very bad thing.The way I see it, what blame there is lies on ALL sides of this.

 

We need to move on to make the game better. The devs cannot see EVERYTHING. It is not possible. We the players can. We have MANY more sets of eyes on the problems. They NEED our honest and concise feedback to find and fix some of the bugs .But we do not know the root CAUSES of said bugs. We see the effects in game but that is the millimeter wide tip of the iceberg that is the game's code.

 

Will it be quick? No

Will it always work the way we want? No.

Will the 'fixes' cause more problems? OF COURSE THEY WILL.

 

But...

 

IF we CAN work together, we can make it good. Or better than good.

 

Maybe I am simply naive or a fanboy, but I HOPE we can.

[Catastrophy]

Could you give us some information regarding the two most annoying game-breaking bugs that currently exist in MP:

 

1 - The infinite black loading screen when starting a game whose host is away from you (it happens 100% of the time when the ping time is above a certain threshold - very easy to reproduce)

 

...

It was already so in MEMP - a simple button to abort  the connection would do wonders here. Now it's alt-F4 and restart or do a trick with a friend in a match but I often don't bother about any of the options anymore.

 

[SofaJockey]

Regarding the BWEAmelia "Hero" and "Villain" thing:

 

In many ways the 'VillainGate' affair was blown out of proportion by the forum,

though it certainly ruffled feathers (did you see what I did there  )

 

But I'll get off that topic as it would lead to moderator disapproval on us both,
(even if that would contain more contradictions than Alexius' time magic)

 

I think 'that thread' actually had some beneficial consequences.

 

Seeing Allan, Conal (and associates) on the forum is terrific, as the BSN is a group, whiny as it can be,
that can show great enthusiasm and passion when communication is strong.

 

I'm delighted that the debate about communication and community management is taking place in house

as it will support the game and in particular DAMP.

 

I'm looking forward to the next weekend event, the victory (cough) chest and ongoing support.

[dreamgazer]

... "VillainGate"? Oh, Maker. 

[Draining Dragon]

So how about that text chat?

[spacefiddle]

My point is that it wasn't "an attack". Re-read what I wrote. You're framing it like Amelia was intending to personally attack Penguin when she was commenting on Penguin's behavior. She wasn't simply name calling as she used a specific expression "....hero to villain". I don't know how else to explain this distinction.

 

I don't understand how you can assert that saying someone has gone "from a hero to a villain" is not calling them a villain...?

 

I understand that you don't want it to be.  But to paraphrase Aziz Ansari, "that's just how words work."

[Xhal]

I suggest we all move on and start fresh.

Bioware should start by posting what exactly what last patch did, what issues are they working on for next patch. Have a multiplayer balance changes each week post like in ME3, and tell us where is the elven ruins destruction map because this doesn't work even though patch notes said otherwise.

I also would like to have the statistics page from single player accessible for multi player characters.

[spacefiddle]

When I commented on his behavior it was to highlight the stark change that I am sincerely saddened by, to say that it was a personal attack is grasping for conflict where none exists.

 

To be a part of this community is a privilege, your behavior is going to be held to a higher standard, 

 

There is no conflict; there's a clear use of a word and applying to someone, saying they are that thing.  That's the definition of name-calling.

 

It's disconcerting to see the idea that we're held to a higher standard, but no mention of the idea that name-calling does not meet a professional standard?  When someone saddens me, if I lose my temper and resort to name-calling, I am in the wrong and I should at least acknowledge that I don't intend to let that be something I do in the future - even if I slip up now and then, because nobody's perfect.  But the tone of this response seems to be: we aren't capable of ever taking an action we'd ever regret, but you guys are.

 

Allan, I do appreciate that in your thread clean-up you've let my posts stand, even if no one has chosen to address them.

 

I'm also glad to see, whatever the disagreements, that y'all have chosen to engage with the MP customers again.  Are there plans to hop over to general Feedback forums and engage with the single-player customers soon, or is that waiting for more solid Patch 4 info?