208 réponses à ce sujet

[Torkelight]

Probably more people would play at MP at least on PS4 if it wasn't necessary pay the PSplus to play it...

I know I'm not the only person who would not pay the PS plus only to play the DAMP, since others games don't require it to play online.

 

Well thats you, on my PS4 there is not a single game that I dont play online. Cheapskate!

[Dr.Fumbles]

I have heard duct tape and chairs is a good way to stop people from leaving. /shrug

[Torkelight]

I just had this discussion with a friend yesterday. Seems as though I don't really enjoy games all that much nowadays. I like DA:I but, its been years since a game really impressed me or brought out the feels( last one was The last of us, I cried like a hungry, angry baby when Sera was killed in the beginning ).

 

I've been saying this for years. There is a solution to this. My entry point to real gaming was when I first booted up Quake (yes, the first one, which is the one and only, the revolution - and people still play it) with about 10 of my friends. It turned in to a days long MP fragfest, and I was hooked for life. Almost every game I have ever played since then have been only for the multiplayer part. I'd argue that even DAMP really isnt multiplayer as all you are doing is killing the same, predictable, limited and badly coded AI anyway. It's coop MP but its not the same. The only way I'd ever get a truly fulfilling experience from gaming is when I play against other people. Alone, or with other people.

Right now, my game of choice is Heroes of the Storm.

Previously I have been playing Quake, Starcraft Broodwar and Starcraft II, Ultima Online PvP, Guild Wars 1 & 2 PvP, League of Legends and last but not least FIFA (+ a few more here and there). Some of these games I have played for years on end (especially the first two), while singleplayer experiences have only been to take breaks from the pressure of competing. And If you'd really want to get the most out of those SP experiences or sometimes indiegames or hidden gems are really your safest bet. Like A tale of two brothers, or Dark Souls f.ex., though I honestly cant comment to much on SP games as I really dont play much of them. I've always followed the Bioware games though, even though they have progressivly been getting worse over the years.
 

[Altruismo]

I've been saying this for years. There is a solution to this. My entry point to real gaming was when I first booted up Quake (yes, the first one, which is the one and only, the revolution - and people still play it) with about 10 of my friends. It turned in to a days long MP fragfest, and I was hooked for life. Almost every game I have ever played since then have been only for the multiplayer part. I'd argue that even DAMP really isnt multiplayer as all you are doing is killing the same, predictable, limited and badly coded AI anyway. It's coop MP but its not the same. The only way I'd ever get a truly fulfilling experience from gaming is when I play against other people. Alone, or with other people.

Right now, my game of choice is Heroes of the Storm.

Previously I have been playing Quake, Starcraft Broodwar and Starcraft II, Ultima Online PvP, Guild Wars 1 & 2 PvP, League of Legends and last but not least FIFA (+ a few more here and there). Some of these games I have played for years on end (especially the first two), while singleplayer experiences have only been to take breaks from the pressure of competing. And If you'd really want to get the most out of those SP experiences or sometimes indiegames or hidden gems are really your safest bet. Like A tale of two brothers, or Dark Souls f.ex., though I honestly cant comment to much on SP games as I really dont play much of them. I've always followed the Bioware games though, even though they have progressivly been getting worse over the years.
 

 

Those were the days. For me my first real multiplayer experience was DOOM2 deathmatch over dial-up (2400 baud, yeah!).

Quake was an utter revolution, and by the time Q3 and UT were competing with each other for market share I could say with a straight face that I was one of the better UT players in the world. Those times of course are gone, these days; knocking on 40 I'd never hope to compete with a pro-gamer at any kind of twitch FPS (although I still enjoy online FPS gaming) so my preference is for co-op.

DA:I is... good. I bought the game for the SP (having played all the DA series) and the co-op is gravy for me but still fun.

Best Co-op experience I've had in recent years is Dead Island: Riptide (so much laughter), and Dying Light is pretty fun to co-op too.

 

 

 

I still play many of the classics( from my point of view ). Fallout 1&2, Mechwarrior entire series, BG 2 and so on. I like MP but, I like the SP story more.

 

Haha I was playing BG2 enhanced edition a few weeks ago - PoE is actually looking like it's gonna be pretty good too.

[hellbiter88]

Well to answer OPs question: Bioware has taken a big step already by fixing the key glitch.

 

Not being snarky, just saying. That was pretty bad. I'm already noticing many more players on the server than before.

[SomberXIII]

I have heard duct tape and chairs is a good way to stop people from leaving. /shrug

Glues in cases where they break free of the tape.

[Quasinerdo]

Fix the loot system - it is BROKEN.

 

Make game progression about character progress and tie the loot to that in some fashion.

 

Currently the loot, character progression, and game levels are disconnected. For this reason the game is broken.

 

The three tiers of difficulty have nothing to do with character level as the devs state on tool-tips. It's only about gear.

Unfortunately you can do NOTHING to reliably earn or improve gear. Thus the disconnect and overall broken design.

 

The fact that this system has gone live is shameful. Even as an afterthought (advertised as available mind you) MP could have been far better with no additional effort. its the poor decision making about the design that has me shaking my head.

[Kinom001]

<snip>

I'm beginning to believe "broken" may be the most misunderstood word on the Internet...

 

The game has flaws, without a doubt, but "broken"? That's just hyperbole.

[haxaw]

Fix the loot system - it is BROKEN.

 

The loot system most certainly is not broken. It may not work anything like what you or I would like it to be, but that doesn't mean it's not working at all. Which is what broken means.

 

 

The three tiers of difficulty have nothing to do with character level as the devs state on tool-tips. It's only about gear.

 

An exaggeration with some truth at the core. If it were truly "only about gear", then 4 well geared players could run as all Level 1s in Perilous all the time, regardless of class. Skill points matter; levels matter. Nevertheless, gear and player skill/experience indisputably play a larger role, which actually is a good thing to me. There's no reason why a seasoned and loaded character needs to be just as ineffective as a new starting player. There wouldn't be much progression otherwise.

 

 

Unfortunately you can do NOTHING to reliably earn or improve gear. Thus the disconnect and overall broken design.

 

The emphasis should be on "reliably" rather than "nothing". The more you play, the higher the chance that you get better gear. Whether or not that chance diminishes way too quickly (e.g. getting those lvl 10 whites is useful in the beginning, but rapidly becomes disappointment), is a whole 'nother discussion.

[Kenny Bania]

If the loot system was "broken" I wouldn't have two lvl 23 Blades of Red Birth and a bunch of lvl 20-23 unique gear. Is it a pain in the ass at times? Yes but, it certainly isn't broken.

 

You having good luck with the RNG doesn't prove the system isn't broken.

[haxaw]

You having good luck with the RNG doesn't prove the system isn't broken.

 

Eh, it kinda does. It proves the system "isn't broken", but it certainly doesn't prove it "works well". There's a lot of distance between "broken" and "satisfactory".

[Kenny Bania]

Eh, it kinda does. It proves the system "isn't broken", but it certainly doesn't prove it "works well". There's a lot of distance between "broken" and "satisfactory".

 

How exactly does it prove that it isn't broken?

 

Note that I haven't made my stance known.

[haxaw]

How exactly does it prove that it isn't broken?

 

Note that I haven't made my stance known.

 

"Broken" would mean it doesn't work, that it is absolutely unable to execute its purpose.

 

In this case, it does work: someone got good gear out of it. It might take an insanely long time to get you what you want, but it "works". As I said, whether or not it works as effectively or smoothly as we would like it to is an entirely different discussion.

[Kenny Bania]

"Broken" would mean it doesn't work, that it is absolutely unable to execute its purpose.

 

In this case, it does work: someone got good gear out of it. It might take an insanely long time to get you what you want, but it "works". As I said, whether or not it works as effectively or smoothly as we would like it to is an entirely different discussion.

 

Is the key system broken?

[haxaw]

Is the key system broken?

 

Ever since the patch, I haven't had any key problems, so my experience would say no, it's not broken. Prior to the patch, it was most certainly broken. The key system is designed to work as follows: the "key" (merely a tangible embodiment of the following criterion) drops when all primary enemies in a zone are defeated (anything non-treasure room). No matter how hard you tried, there were games where you just can't get it to drop.

 

In my mind, progression loot systems are designed to: progressively increase the effectiveness and power of characters over time by providing opportunities to obtain stronger gear. This is indeed observed. That said, you might very well say the "time" required varies far too wildly and the "opportunities" afforded are much too poor, but that's the "entirely different discussion" I was referencing.

[Kenny Bania]

Ever since the patch, I haven't had any key problems, so my experience would say no, it's not broken. Prior to the patch, it was most certainly broken. The key system is designed to work as follows: the "key" (merely a tangible embodiment of the following criterion) drops when all primary enemies in a zone are defeated (anything non-treasure room). No matter how hard you tried, there were games where you just can't get it to drop.

 

In my mind, progression loot systems are designed to: progressively increase the effectiveness and power of characters over time by providing opportunities to obtain stronger gear. This is indeed observed. That said, you might very well say the "time" required varies far too wildly and the "opportunities" afforded are much too poor, but that's the "entirely different discussion" I was referencing.

 

Poor choice of tense since I'm on console....

 

Either way, it was broken on PC but there were instances where it worked, hence my point. The loot system working for Stormheart83 doesn't automatically imply it isn't broken.

 

Once again for clarity, I never claimed it was broken, just that Stormheart83's evidence doesn't prove it isn't.

[haxaw]

Poor choice of tense since I'm on console....

 

Either way, it was broken on PC but there were instances where it worked, hence my point. The loot system working for Stormheart83 doesn't automatically imply it isn't broken.

 

Once again for clarity, I never claimed it was broken, just that Stormheart83's evidence doesn't prove it isn't.

 

A lot of this is boiling down to semantics, so there's no need to really hash things out.

 

You're right in saying Stormheart83's evidence alone isn't sufficient proof. However, the nature of random is such that with enough time, everyone will be geared out. In this sense, the system "works". Of course, my gripe (and I think most people's actual grievance) is that "enough time" varies far too widely from person to person, and it is that variation and suffering through endless Chests of Salvage^TM that is driving people up the wall.

 

Long story short: people should stop using "broken" whenever something displeases you. It dilutes the meaning of the word for when it really does apply.

[Altruismo]

Well to answer OPs question: Bioware has taken a big step already by fixing the key glitch.

 

Not being snarky, just saying. That was pretty bad. I'm already noticing many more players on the server than before.

 

I had an invincible resurrected giant and the corresponding key drop bug yesterday.

Key bug is still a work in progress.

[Quasinerdo]

I use the word broken as a literary device - not to be taken at its absolute meaning.

 

In the context of what a player/customer or even an average developer would consider reasonable, sensible and functional..... this loot system is not working.

 

I stand by my points regarding the effect of loot and the impact of the sheer randomness.

 

 

I also believe you are incorrect. Statistically you have no increased chance of better loot by playing longer. Each roll is it's own event. Of course that presumes a system of actual RNG that is as close as possible to being truly random. We do not know if their are weighting values applied.

 

Bottom line for me is we don't know how they are actually running it but it's clear that it does not reward in a manner that meshes with progression for classes or investment of effort.

[haxaw]

I use the word broken as a literary device - not to be taken at its absolute meaning.

 

In the context of what a player/customer or even an average developer would consider reasonable, sensible and functional..... this loot system is not working.

 

If that is your intended usage, then fine.

 

 

I also believe you are incorrect. Statistically you have no increased chance of better loot by playing longer. Each roll is it's own event. Of course that presumes a system of actual RNG that is as close as possible to being truly random. We do not know if their are weighting values applied.

 

Your description of RNG is correct, but you did not read my post correctly. I said "with enough time, everyone will be geared out". This is a mathematically true statement. As time approaches infinity, the probability that you still do not have every piece of gear approaches zero. I then went on to qualify (several times) that the variation in time and the length of time is the true core issue. I made no claims of "increased chance".

 

As a side note, the "weighting values" system you hinted at is known as a Pseudo RNG, or PRNG. In a PRNG system, the likelihood of an event occurring increases for each time it doesn't occur. Many systems and game mechanics employ PRNG systems, but we have no reason to believe that's what we're dealing with here (though no reason to believe not, either).

[Sidney]

The loot system isn't broken. The problem is the weapon system. Since one drop can essentially "max" one of your 6 weapon needs it is too easy with a more generous loot system to overpower characters. You realize the value in this scenario of a 1-10 value system like ME had because it provide a way to give players something of value without unhinging difficulty. If you had Tevinter longsword, Ferelden longsword, eleven longsword and each could be upgraded 10 times it is easier to give players something good without giving away the store.