166 réponses à ce sujet

[Ranadiel Marius]

Don't the Wardens directly infect themselves by drinking Darkspawn blood. I could understand unable to survive because of extreme injuries from Darkspawn. But for someone like Felix, couldn't he be a Warden. Is there something extra in the ritual like a mgic component that I forgot?

The exact nature of the joining isn't fully known, but it is known that it includes taking archdemon blood and lyrium. Based on what we know about Felix's condition, he probably could have his life extended by the joining (assuming it didn't kill him), but that isn't common knowledge in universe.

[rigron]

Anyone saying that Solas=Old God is thinking too far in

 

The old gods get corrupted by a touch from a blighted being, Solar/Flementh do not

 

The Old Gods get corrupted as everyone (humans, elves, dwarfs, animals, etc) does: from an injury of a blighted being. Solas and Flemmeth would become blighted too in that scenario, but lorewise it hasn´t happened, the same way that when you fight darkspawns you don´t get corrupted when they hit you.

 

Solas could perfectly be an Old God, or he may be another kind of God (Elven mythology had 2 kind of Gods), but he is for sure the one who tricked the 2 kind of Gods and jailed the "Upper" Gods on the Heavens while jailing the Old Gods in their prisons under the earth according to elven lore.

 

Considering Mythal (Flemmeth) and Fen´harel (Solas) both want to preserve the Old God souls, as does Morrigan because that was one of her mother teachings (and she didn´t know that her mother was an Elven God until almost the endgame of Inquisition), probably there is an important reason for the Old Gods souls to be preserved

[Elsariel]

The exact nature of the joining isn't fully known, but it is known that it includes taking archdemon blood and lyrium. Based on what we know about Felix's condition, he probably could have his life extended by the joining (assuming it didn't kill him), but that isn't common knowledge in universe.

I think it's just darkspawn blood and lyrium.

[Aravasia]

That's a good theory except for the main issue with Grey Wardens. The only way to kill an Archdemon is as a Grey Warden kill it, 2 souls in one body kills them both. The only way they'd know this is if it happened the first time.

 

I'm ignoring the idea that you are also claiming that Mythal wanted humans to breach the Golden City/Black city for whatever reason and also came up with the entire idea of The Maker...

 

It is possible that the idea that a Grey Warden needed to die evolved with the second Blight, this was a thousand years ago, after all, and before the age of solid record keeping, I am guessing. We know by the book the Last Flight that not all Old Gods have been saved. Dumat may have been the only one, apart from a possible Urthemiel, whom became an OGB. Also, the game suggests that the Blight has been around for far longer than when the Magisters entered the fade. It is possible that Old Gods had already been tainted by the time of the Imperium, that, or they believe that something in the Black City could help them escape their prison. It is also a theory that the Black City may be Arlathan, but there isn't really sufficient evidence to credit that yet. As for the idea of the Maker, I'm uncertain. It has been suggested that the Chantry often re-writes history for it's own benefit. The Imperium believed that Andraste was a mage, and may actually have a far more accurate depiction of both her and the idea of Maker, but so far, we have only the sermons from Southern Thedas. If Mythal is not Dumat than why else would the developers just throw this in the final battle? It is literally the only Mosiac in the entire temple. It wold also explain why Corypheus, a priest of Dumat, chose that location to open the Breach. 

Spoiler

taken from Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...f_sacred_ashes/

[Aren]

We don't actually know that killing the old gods would end blights. Currently, the only thing that keeps darkspawn from roaming around on the surface all the time is their drive to search the Deep Roads for the next old god.

If there were no remaining old gods, the darkspawn would have no reason to travel en masse to the Deep Roads. Sure, without an archdemon they'd be less organized, but they'd be everywhere. Even if they didn't attack everything on sight (which they do), their mere presence would blight the land, making it uninhabitable and toxic.

The old gods cannot perform their calling if they are not imprisoned in their slumber, or they are not in the Archdemons form, so I believe that Solas know that sooner or later the darkspawn will be free from the old gods, who are a sort of barrier against the blight. His logic is simple no one can change that scenario but better later than sooner.

So yes basically killing the all the ancient dragons   (now only 2 are the barrier who perform the calling) will start the world war in Thedas.

[In Exile]

The exact nature of the joining isn't fully known, but it is known that it includes taking archdemon blood and lyrium. Based on what we know about Felix's condition, he probably could have his life extended by the joining (assuming it didn't kill him), but that isn't common knowledge in universe.

It doesn't have to be AD blood. It can be magically altered darkspawn blood.

[cronshaw]

Because he knows more than you

also the logistics of the Warden plan were pretty f-ed up

regardless of the end result

[Ranadiel Marius]

It is possible that the idea that a Grey Warden needed to die evolved with the second Blight, this was a thousand years ago, after all, and before the age of solid record keeping, I am guessing. We know by the book the Last Flight that not all Old Gods have been saved. Dumat may have been the only one, apart from a possible Urthemiel, whom became an OGB. 

An alternate possibility is that all Old Gods create OGBs when they are killed and all that the Dark Ritual does is save the life of the Warden and selects where the Olg God soul ends up.

[LaughingBanana]

If Solas knows SOMETHING about it but decided to just kept quiet about it, in my eyes he has NO right whatsoever of being angry with Grey Warden doing what they're doing.

 

Grey Warden's doing what they doing with the singular intention of trying to save the world. If Solas knows about how it'll possibly make it worse but then he deliberately withheld that information, if I am a Grey Warden and see him angry at me I will just say "**** off Solas at least I am trying to do something instead of just acting angry but then continue the cryptic-no-no-you-don't-need-to-know thing."

 

Frankly, it's kind of annoying how he got so angry at the whole thing but he doesn't tell of exactly why he's angry.

[KaiserShep]

It is a little irksome that the Inquisitor can't say: "Know something we don't?"

[xJLxKing]

The Old Gods get corrupted as everyone (humans, elves, dwarfs, animals, etc) does: from an injury of a blighted being. Solas and Flemmeth would become blighted too in that scenario, but lorewise it hasn´t happened, the same way that when you fight darkspawns you don´t get corrupted when they hit you.

 

Solas could perfectly be an Old God, or he may be another kind of God (Elven mythology had 2 kind of Gods), but he is for sure the one who tricked the 2 kind of Gods and jailed the "Upper" Gods on the Heavens while jailing the Old Gods in their prisons under the earth according to elven lore.

 

Considering Mythal (Flemmeth) and Fen´harel (Solas) both want to preserve the Old God souls, as does Morrigan because that was one of her mother teachings (and she didn´t know that her mother was an Elven God until almost the endgame of Inquisition), probably there is an important reason for the Old Gods souls to be preserved

Morrigan wants to perserve Elven lore this doesn't mean she is Elven.

 

Also, the Old Gods do not get corrupted the same way. What? You think the Darkspawn try to fight the Old God? Doesn't make sense considering that the Architect did a reverse joining ritual on the Old God

[Dayze]

Well; its not a given Solas is an elven god.

 

Maybe he was just an elf who slept for a long time.

 

Didn't one of those pop up as a bad guy in the book Cole came from?

 

That could have been him eating Flemeth's soul or maybe thats what happens when Flemeth transfers to a new body.

 

As for the old dumat statues; at least one of them was invested with demons, even mythal could still just be a demon or spirit.

 

Maybe all the elven gods were simply beings like Cole?

 

Though there is that one bit in the game where your reading it and it talks about how some elf became the youngest of the gods when your at the well of sorrows.  

[Biotic Flash Kick]

because in DA:O  and DA2 [my hawke was a wrden fangirl] i killed dalish elves at every turn i could 

 

so basically solas is angry because the hero of ferelden slaughtered a dalish clan for lulz 

[Ophir147]

It is a little irksome that the Inquisitor can't say: "Know something we don't?"

 

Well lots of people know something that the Inquisitor doesn't.

 

Only the Grey Wardens know why a Grey Warden is needed to end a blight. Does Solas know this? The Inquisitor wouldn't know that he knows, because s/he doesn't know that it is something that could happen in the first place.

 

I wish Blackwall was a real Grey Warden so he could actually ask Solas this question from a position of experience. Now all we have is more questions... and complicated ones at that

[Precursor Meta]

If Solas knows SOMETHING about it but decided to just kept quiet about it, in my eyes he has NO right whatsoever of being angry with Grey Warden doing what they're doing.
 
Grey Warden's doing what they doing with the singular intention of trying to save the world. If Solas knows about how it'll possibly make it worse but then he deliberately withheld that information, if I am a Grey Warden and see him angry at me I will just say "**** off Solas at least I am trying to do something instead of just acting angry but then continue the cryptic-no-no-you-don't-need-to-know thing."
 
Frankly, it's kind of annoying how he got so angry at the whole thing but he doesn't tell of exactly why he's angry.

Again, I blame the writers. But as someone has told me, it keeps us talking.

[KaiserShep]

Well lots of people know something that the Inquisitor doesn't.

 

Only the Grey Wardens know why a Grey Warden is needed to end a blight. Does Solas know this? The Inquisitor wouldn't know that he knows, because s/he doesn't know that it is something that could happen in the first place.

 

I wish Blackwall was a real Grey Warden so he could actually ask Solas this question from a position of experience. Now all we have is more questions... and complicated ones at that

 

It's just that Solas' objections kind of ring hollow if he can't really give a reason why destroying the things that turn into apocalyptic death machines is a bad thing.

[Precursor Meta]

I'll just reserve judgment until solid answers come but personally I think there is more to the whole Elven gods = old gods. That just seems way to convenient.

I think this is a set up, a false lead. So that when we think we know everything, the writers will flip the script and surprise us.

[ashlover mark 2]

Solas acts like he may know something about the Old Gods. Whether he actually does know something for a fact or he's just speculating has yet to be revealed. If he does have factual information, he looks down on the Wardens because to him, they are ignorant soldiers meddling with things they don't understand and are unknowingly makeing the situation worse. 

 

Also, Solas' issue with the Grey Wardens is about his own anger and guilt towards himself awell. He is, afterall, the one who decide to take action for the greater good but caused the predicament that Thedas was in at the time. What the Wardens were doing hit close to home for him -- He was essentially watching people go down the same road as him.

[Aren]

If Solas knows SOMETHING about it but decided to just kept quiet about it, in my eyes he has NO right whatsoever of being angry with Grey Warden doing what they're doing.

 

Grey Warden's doing what they doing with the singular intention of trying to save the world. If Solas knows about how it'll possibly make it worse but then he deliberately withheld that information, if I am a Grey Warden and see him angry at me I will just say "**** off Solas at least I am trying to do something instead of just acting angry but then continue the cryptic-no-no-you-don't-need-to-know thing."

 

Frankly, it's kind of annoying how he got so angry at the whole thing but he doesn't tell of exactly why he's angry.

Of course that he will keep his knowledge for himself, can you Imagine...

Solas:   "Inquisitor the wardens are foolish the old gods must be preserved"

Inquisitor : "How do you know about this"

Solas: "Because i'm more ancient then them and i know who they really are"

Inquisitor: " what the hell are you?"

Solas: " the dread wolf"
end of the game.

He know things but he cannot say them, this must be very frustrating

[LaughingBanana]

Of course that he will keep his knowledge for himself, can you Imagine...

Solas:   "Inquisitor the wardens are foolish the old gods must be preserved"

Inquisitor : "How do you know about this"

Solas: "Because i'm more ancient then them and i know who they really are"

Inquisitor: " what the hell are you?"

Solas: " the dread wolf"
end of the game.

He know things but he cannot say them, this must be very frustrating

 

Oh I am sure if he really wants to he can impart that knowledge to the Grey Warden/Inquisition without them finding out it's really from him.

 

I mean, he's the one that gave the orb to Corypheus and yet he kept a poker face throughout the entire journey from the beginning to Corypheus' defeat. Hell Corypheus didn't even recognize him at all, and he's an ancient darkspawn magister supposedly very powerful and knowledgable about stuff.

[Lewie]

Why is Solas angry?

 

Maybe because the old gods can carry the blight

 

And certain powers try to keep the old gods going even though they can't die.

[Aravasia]

An alternate possibility is that all Old Gods create OGBs when they are killed and all that the Dark Ritual does is save the life of the Warden and selects where the Olg God soul ends up.

This is an interesting thought as well. Though, if this is the case, it would make me wonder what they have all been doing these past years. From Morrigan's Witch Hunt dialogue about Keiran, along with Andraste's accomplishments (if she is an OGB), it seems like the Old God vessels have some great destiny. If it happens that the Dark Ritual only saves the warden's life, and the old gods are re-born anyway, then perhaps the dark ritual is also what allows the God soul to retain some memory of their original identity, and if the dark ritual is not completed, then the old-god soul forgets who they are, hence why they haven't been some great historical figure (or perhaps they have been, and we've just yet to find the connection.) A possibility, either way. 

[Ieldra]

I think it's just darkspawn blood and lyrium.

According to Riordan in DAO, a drop of archdemon blood is needed for the joining.

[Ieldra]

Given that the Wardens' basic idea - to kill the remaining Old Gods before they can start a Blight - is good, they get actually criticized for not having been proactive before, and Solas gives no reason for his anger that's even remotely convincing, I see three possibilities:

 

(1) Solas knows more than we do and doesn't tell us. That's the good option, since it means there are interesting revelations in store.

(2) It was drama for its own sake and the writer didn't bother to think further than that. Unfortunately, after ME3 I can't rule out this possibility.

(3) Solas' lines were written by someone who thinks the idea is obviously stupid and didn't see a need for an explanation.

 

Which one is it? No idea, but I hope they come up with something interesting, regardless of whether it's been on their mind already or not. A connection between the Old Gods and the elven gods appears not too far-fetched, given that Mythal is depicted as some sort of human/dragon hybrid in her temple.

[DuskWanderer]

Solas wasn't angry about the plan to kill the Old Gods: Banter with Blackwall indicates that he hopes the idea that destroying the Old Gods stopping all of the Blights is a correct one. He is angry for:

 

1.) Forcibly binding spirits, which is something he does not abide. 

 

2.) That the Wardens are trying to tamper with the Blight, which he thinks is foolish