27 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

It had it's issues, but fundamentally the Friendship/Rivalry allowed there to be variation in the relationship between the protagonist and the companions, often in quite interesting ways. While in DA:I (and a lot of other games) every playthrough seems too similar in this - maybe if I pick up a few more approval an extra conversation shows up, but the feel of the relationship is basically the same, unless there's a romance going on.

I know there are scenes for high disapproval, but the way the game is set up it seems unlikely that they'd ever show up unless I'm actively setting out to be a jerk and avoid quests and things.

Cole is a bit of an exception - because he's so different depending on his personal quest, the relationship with the Inquisitor feels different.

Honestly, this isn't so much a criticism of DA:I, because most RPGs aren't any better, as it is just my realising how much I appreciated the feature in DA2

[AlexiaRevan]

Same . +1 Oh no wait..I still got thumbs 

[AlexiaRevan]

They probably didnt bring back the system due to all the negatives stuff that were thrown at DA2 . 

 

But I do recall them saying the new romances in DAI will be more interesting and complicated . And honestly.....I admit I only did Sera....and side her not liking elfy elf.....where is the complication ? and when are they gonna make that 'dissaprove' mean something..that could replace the rivalry....

[ThreeF]

BioWare seems to have a habit of taking criticism of a certain feature as "Don't do it ever again!". Assuming that's why they scrapped it, of course.

 

I kind of feel that they didn't quite removed it, just toned it down a lot. It would be nice to have a less toned down version, but I don't miss the friendship rivalry meter per se.

 

They probably didnt bring back the system due to all the negatives stuff that were thrown at DA2 . 

 

But I do recall them saying the new romances in DAI will be more interesting and complicated . And honestly.....I admit I only did Sera....and side her not liking elfy elf.....where is the complication ? and when are they gonna make that 'dissaprove' mean something..that could replace the rivalry....

 

I don't know about Sera and it probably has to do with how one defines "complicated" and what one expects out of it. There were complications in at least 3 romances I can think of, as far for interesting goes.... that's tricky.

[ThreeF]

To my knowledge, there is significantly less content for disapproval with companions than there is for Inquisitors who act in a manner they approve of. That's the main problem. The meter, I feel, shouldn't be there.

 

Yes I got the same impression, but if the actual rivalry is to be implemented I would like for it to be done differently. Things are a bit fussy with DA2 for me, so I could be off on this, but my impression is that it basically boiled down to "i hate you, but I love you/need you" It's fine when there is such dynamic with one character, but not all.

[TheOgre]

Hehehe, I liked how Isabela bailed on me if she didn't love or hate me.. If I was sort of neutral to her I lost her for good. Da2 did some good things for the year of time they were forced to stick to.

[Kalshane]

While I appreciate what they tried to do with the Friendship/Rivarly system in DA2, in practice it ended up a little silly at times. "Oh, this is a great gift, I love it." +15 Rivalry. Um, what?

 

In my most recent play-through of DA2 I decided I wanted to Rival Merrill because I didn't agree with her whole blood mage/demon-dealing nonsense. Which forced me to behave unneccessarily harshly towards her at times, even when she wasn't doing anything wrong, so as to not "sabotage" my Rivalry with her. It was kind of awkward.

 

I do agree the games should have something a little more nuanced than straight approval/disapproval. Maybe something like two tracks, one being a Like/Dislike and another being a Respect/Disrespect. So the classic Friendship/Romance would result from both Liking and Respecting the person, while the DA2 Rivalry would be a Respect/Dislike deal. The first bar could relate to your direct interactions with the person, while the second to your in-game actions. So you could have a good rapport with someone (Like), but behave in a manner they disagree with (Disrespect), which would result in friendly debates on how your character is handling things. They wouldn't truly hate you unless you scored poorly on both their Like and Respect meters.

[Wargaron]

While I appreciate what they tried to do with the Friendship/Rivarly system in DA2, in practice it ended up a little silly at times. "Oh, this is a great gift, I love it." +15 Rivalry. Um, what?

 

In my most recent play-through of DA2 I decided I wanted to Rival Merrill because I didn't agree with her whole blood mage/demon-dealing nonsense. Which forced me to behave unneccessarily harshly towards her at times, even when she wasn't doing anything wrong, so as to not "sabotage" my Rivalry with her. It was kind of awkward.

 

I do agree the games should have something a little more nuanced than straight approval/disapproval. Maybe something like two tracks, one being a Like/Dislike and another being a Respect/Disrespect. So the classic Friendship/Romance would result from both Liking and Respecting the person, while the DA2 Rivalry would be a Respect/Dislike deal. The first bar could relate to your direct interactions with the person, while the second to your in-game actions. So you could have a good rapport with someone (Like), but behave in a manner they disagree with (Disrespect), which would result in friendly debates on how your character is handling things. They wouldn't truly hate you unless you scored poorly on both their Like and Respect meters.

 

That s a pretty good idea!

[AxholeRose]

I miss rivalries from DA2

 

I miss the skill bar from DA2

 

I miss tactics from DA2

 

I miss the constant banter in DA2

 

I miss my storage chest in DA2

 

I miss side quests that make sense from DA2, ie you were a rising noble/upcomer in Kirkwall and they'd ask you for favors or to rescue someone, instead of asking the Inquisitor to fetch 20 elfroots and find logging stands, etc.

[PearsAndCherries]

I like it actually better like this. You directly experience the negative side effects of having a low approval/high dissaproval rate in the game. Companions can leave you at any time, rather than waiting till the end fight where they're dumping you. I enjoyed the rivalry romances though (especially Fenris his rivalry romance).

[Vader20]

Question:

 

Why do game devs ditch things that worked were loved by players in the past ? This is something that I have a really really hard time understanding.....

 

And yes, I miss the rivalries too... Can't say that I love people kissing my backside all the time and bowing to their knees before me all the time.

[TurretSyndrome]

The concept of Rivalry was a good one but I always felt that the execution was terrible in DA 2. It has that fundamental flaw where people who tend to disagree/hate you for things have more loyalty than ones who have neutral feelings about you. The F/R system was also flawed where one cannot be a friend to a companion while disagreeing with that companion on something. Like Merril and her Eluvian. 

 

Companions also felt "chained" to my character because no matter what I do, they are available for me. They don't say "F*ck you, I'm done!", they just give you more rivalry points for you to max it. Worse, They can be persuaded to do things against their liking and will be romanceable. 

 

I'm glad DA:I reverted back to approval/disapproval because it's simpler and doesn't cause as many headaches. How I'd like for Bioware to improve it is to allow for companion quests to happen even though a companion disapproves a lot, but with the Rivalry theme. 

 

But if certain companions just can't take being around the character, they should leave. It's only natural, unless something is really driving them to stay. Having absolutely no reason to stay with the PC and hating his choices and actions throughout while following him and even sleeping with him really made me pull my hair in DA 2.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I miss being able to p*ss off companions into fighting you. Fun times.

[In Exile]

While I appreciate what they tried to do with the Friendship/Rivarly system in DA2, in practice it ended up a little silly at times. "Oh, this is a great gift, I love it." +15 Rivalry. Um, what?

In my most recent play-through of DA2 I decided I wanted to Rival Merrill because I didn't agree with her whole blood mage/demon-dealing nonsense. Which forced me to behave unneccessarily harshly towards her at times, even when she wasn't doing anything wrong, so as to not "sabotage" my Rivalry with her. It was kind of awkward.

I do agree the games should have something a little more nuanced than straight approval/disapproval. Maybe something like two tracks, one being a Like/Dislike and another being a Respect/Disrespect. So the classic Friendship/Romance would result from both Liking and Respecting the person, while the DA2 Rivalry would be a Respect/Dislike deal. The first bar could relate to your direct interactions with the person, while the second to your in-game actions. So you could have a good rapport with someone (Like), but behave in a manner they disagree with (Disrespect), which would result in friendly debates on how your character is handling things. They wouldn't truly hate you unless you scored poorly on both their Like and Respect meters.

People love love this two metre idea but it's a resource hog. It either means fewer companions, less content per relationship grid or less quests.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

i miss the personal skill trees

 

like sure knight enchanter is cool

but i wish vivi had more to do with wi other than enchanters get to become this etc etc

 

also cass is a seeker

 

her spell purge should be burning the lyrium and floating magic around templars / demons / spellbinders not just making it disappear

 

she is basically a blood templar via the lyruim/magic in blood

[Elsariel]

I agree, OP. I really miss Rivalry. It just needed to be improved on, not completely scrapped. Sometimes the Rivalry romances felt a lot hotter than the friendship ones. Mage Hawke (who supported mages) and Fenris? Haaaaaawt!

I do think it would be really complicated with a lot of companions, romance or not. It's better suited to a smaller cast if we don't want the quality of other things to suffer.

[Wulfram]

People love love this two metre idea but it's a resource hog. It either means fewer companions, less content per relationship grid or less quests.

You could have the approval bar measure your "progress" and the friendship/rivalry bar decide which side's content you get, and use no more resources than DA2 did.

[Dominic_910]

I'm glad DA:I reverted back to approval/disapproval because it's simpler and doesn't cause as many headaches. How I'd like for Bioware to improve it is to allow for companion quests to happen even though a companion disapproves a lot, but with the Rivalry theme. 

 

 

This is the thing that bothers me about the companion quests, if i want to do them i pretty much have to get the companions to like me which would involve my character having one hell of a split-personality since he'd be trying to please everyone.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

Corypheus: I hate you I shall rule the world you are my rival!

Me: Rivals !? Ok,see you in my room  later! We will bang,ok !?

Corypheus:WTF O___O!!!???

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ah such missed opportunity 

[Kalshane]

People love love this two metre idea but it's a resource hog. It either means fewer companions, less content per relationship grid or less quests.

 

I don't know. 9 companions almost felt like too much. I barely used Dorian (even though I thought he was awesome), Viviane, Solas and Cole during my playthrough. I'd be happier with a couple fewer companions if it meant for richer interactions with those that were in the game. And as others have said, you almost have to behave like your character has multiple personalities if you want to be able access everyone's sidequests.

 

And I realize DA:O also had 9 (if you include Shale's DLC and dog, though the latter didn't have any sidequests and you could only increase his approval through the Feast Day gifts.) but even then I had a couple odd-men/women out on any given play-through. (Dog I didn't use at all until I installed the Extra Dog Slot mod.)

[learie]

Oh dear no, I hated rivalry. It made getting approval high enough to keep companions tremendously annoying. I was always answering to suck up to my companions and had to leave my favourites at home to avoid their points dropping to neutral.

 

I find the current system a bit random: I foolishly told Solas I don't like blood magic, and I don't think I am ever getting his big quest. All this popping in and asking him about Corypheus to gain slight approval is getting very boring.

 

I liked gifts.