103 réponses à ce sujet

[Vertigogo]

I just wanted to know what people are thinking about classes.  Who's too powerful, not powerful enough, and what solutions they think would help.

 

Personally, I think the 2handed warriors are a bit too fragile.  They go down very quickly if you make even a minor mistake.  I'm not sure what the limits are as far as adding talents in the game, but I feel like the Katari needs some way to get back health slowly or better guard.  As is, the guard is largely to weak to be of much use on higher difficulties.

 

I think the archer needs some sort of passive agro reduction.  With a good team, it's not an issue, but it's very easy to pull tons of heat if the other party members aren't doing as much damage (which they rarely are)

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts.  Feel free to eviscerate them. 

 

 

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Balance?  

 

If you made a class tier list when you first started this game and you had a base constitution/cunning/willpower of 10/10/10, what would it be?

 

If you made a class tier list when you have promotions under your belt and a base constitution/cunning/willpower of 50/50/50, what would it be? 

 

Would those lists look the same or would they be different?

[haxaw]

Balance?  

 

If you made a class tier list when you first started this game and you had a base constitution/cunning/willpower of 10/10/10, what would it be?

 

If you made a class tier list when you have promotions under your belt and a base constitution/cunning/willpower of 50/50/50, what would it be? 

 

Would those lists look the same or would they be different?

 

But will it blend?

 

On topic: I think the first and easiest balance would be to buff Guard and nerf Barrier. Guard in single player negated most disabling and knockback effects. This was removed in the MP, reasonably so. Guard absorbs damage after armor calculations. In SP armor values go way higher than anything the MP currently has.

 

Barrier in general absorbs an obscene amount of damage, not to mention the magical (even beyond the magic) invincibility period right after you cast a fresh full Barrier.

 

I think leveling the playing field between the two mechanics would be an excellent first step in addressing a big part of class balance.

[TormDK]

Before we can suggest balance changes, we would need full disclosure on stats.

 

So lets advocate for that first and foremost.

[Eldial3los]

If a class depends on promotion in order to be more viable than balance is not done in a proper manner.

 

A perfect balance between classes means that any class can do PVP and be viable. (Same skill + top equipment between 2 opponents)

 

If you take a archer that can just rape a melee class before it even have a chance of swinging his weapon (travel distance) it is not balance.

If you take a class and give it tanking ability and long range ability and Cc abilities than you have an OP class.

 

In other MMO, melee class have a huge pool of health to compensate for their lack of long rage skills. (tanking the damage)

 

The difference between running a melee class (Katari, Reaver) compared to a range class is the capability of taking on1-2 more hits on perilous. (Useless)

 

If melee class requires you to play ultra conservative while range ones  give you more leeway , classes are therefore not balance

 

Balance = Time, Effort, Result

[Kinom001]

Doesn't archer have a passive for avoiding aggro? Granted it's way, way down in the Evasion tree...

[xROLLxTIDEx]

If a class depends on promotion in order to be more viable than balance is not done in a proper manner.

If you try to balance all the characters for a player who has the base 10/10/10 starting stats, will those characters still be balanced once that player's base stats have reached 50/50/50?

 

I think that certain classes benefit more from promotions than other classes.  All classes benefit from promotions, some more so than others.  Considering that you have new players entering the game with base stats of 10/10/10 and long time players who have base stats over 50/50/50, how do you truly balance the classes when stacking promotions effect classes differently.

[Kenny Bania]

Yep, but I wonder how effective it is.  I can't count the number of times groups of enemies run past a taunting warrior to get a piece of me.  :/  It's one of the reasons I prefer using the hunter- start getting swarmed by melee guys, then just pop stealth and move.

 

It seems to work quite well on the Alchemist, even when I'm not in stealth.

[haxaw]

It seems to work quite well on the Alchemist, even when I'm not in stealth.

 

There seems to be some general quirkiness with enemy threat priorities regarding ranged classes. Without a good spread of threat management (either gaining or shedding aggro), enemies seem to disproportionately go for the archers. Not a bad tactic, to be fair, but there are occasionally ridiculous cross-map dives for that one archer.

 

Prioritizing afk or just-spawned players is a similar problem, but who can blame the AI there?

[Vertigogo]

Yeah, I've had several runs that were hell on my archer because everything would focus him down.  I could not attack anyone at all, and the instant I popped out from cover I would get attacked by all the ranged units. 

 

As to promotions, I don't think balancing around super high promotions is a good idea at present.  Sure, some classes get a higher benefit than others, but it's a small section of players at that level.  That's something I'd want them to wait on until it's a proven problem.

[russ4ua16]

The rogue classes need their dodge skill changed to a percent chance to dodge. All that cunning and dexterity and I can't dodge 1/5 arrows?

[SolarSpaghetti]

Forget balance its a co-op game...

[Aegore]

All the classes are balanced fine as they all have their own strengths to contribute to the group. I think a focus on creating new content for us to do in DAMP is much more important.

[Vertigogo]

Forget balance its a co-op game...

 

I've seen this pop up here and in the ME3 boards, but it's not a very reasonable point.  You want classes to be as equal as possible so that players don't feel railroaded into only using a few on higher difficulties.  Less balance equals fewer choices.  I think the same thing about itemization, as there is almost always a clear best option, but overhauling the items seems unlikely to happen. 

 

 

All the classes are balanced fine as they all have their own strengths to contribute to the group. I think a focus on creating new content for us to do in DAMP is much more important.

 

I actually fully agree, but highlighting some relatively easier things seems like a good idea.  As ME3 taught us, balance changes can be done much more quickly and easily than making whole new assets.

[Aegore]

I've seen this pop up here and in the ME3 boards, but it's not a very reasonable point.  You want classes to be as equal as possible so that players don't feel railroaded into only using a few on higher difficulties.  Less balance equals fewer choices.  I think the same thing about itemization, as there is almost always a clear best option, but overhauling the items seems unlikely to happen. 

 

If classes are as equal as possible you won't get variety in builds and classes. This is a co-op game and each class within the group will have a specific role to contribute. All classes are perfectly viable on every difficulty, you just have to know how to play each specific class in the different difficulties and what role you are taking on for your group.

[haxaw]

If classes are as equal as possible you won't get variety in builds and classes. This is a co-op game and each class within the group will have a specific role to contribute. All classes are perfectly viable on every difficulty, you just have to know how to play each specific class in the different difficulties and what role you are taking on for your group.

 

You're telling me you look at the AW/Elementalist and the Katari/Reaver and think to yourself, "Looks good, what's next?"

[Catastrophy]

I fear any balance is moot since there seems to be no cap on attribute gain from promotions.

[Boatzu]

Its hard to say which classes need tweaking atm. Would rather they fixed skills and skill rings to work as intended before determining who needs buffs or nerfs

[Beerfish]

I think balance over all is pretty decent for the 1st two difficulties, perilous kind of weeds things out a bit.  The two handed warrior has been very weak in almost all bioware games though at tougher difficulties though so that is not unexpected.  (Sten was one of the weakest of all characters in DA imo.  In DAI I totally respected Iron Bull into being a weapon and shield guy,)

 

to me the higher damage of a two handed player simply does not equate to getting hurt a lot more.  Especially when the weapons seem so unwieldy and it's tougher to fight with something like a maul.

[haxaw]

I think balance over all is pretty decent for the 1st two difficulties, perilous kind of weeds things out a bit.  The two handed warrior has been very weak in almost all bioware games though at tougher difficulties though so that is not unexpected.  (Sten was one of the weakest of all characters in DA imo.  In DAI I totally respected Iron Bull into being a weapon and shield guy,)

 

to me the higher damage of a two handed player simply does not equate to getting hurt a lot more.  Especially when the weapons seem so unwieldy and it's tougher to fight with something like a maul.

 

Agreed on the difficulties point, but historically, plenty of Bioware 2 handers have held their own. Jedi Knights in the KotoR series, for example, or in DA:O, the absolute best warrior tank was actually a 2 hander templar with near spell immunity (depending on Dwarf or not) and Indomitable (immune to knockdown).

 

Back to the present, though, 2 handed damage definitely doesn't make up for the defensive and position-sensitive struggles.

[Aegore]

You're telling me you look at the AW/Elementalist and the Katari/Reaver and think to yourself, "Looks good, what's next?"

 

Correct. You can't even compare these classes as they have completely different roles/builds but every character is viable. Also there is no PVP in this game so class balance is not needed. Everything is balanced to cooperative play which is the way it should be. 

[Aegore]

Agreed on the difficulties point, but historically, plenty of Bioware 2 handers have held their own. Jedi Knights in the KotoR series, for example, or in DA:O, the absolute best warrior tank was actually a 2 hander templar with near spell immunity (depending on Dwarf or not) and Indomitable (immune to knockdown).

 

Back to the present, though, 2 handed damage definitely doesn't make up for the defensive and position-sensitive struggles.

 

2-handed warriors have insane DPS, higher than any mage class and probably rogues too - They don't need defensive capabilities as long as you're smart with your positioning and dodging. Hit the enemy from behind and you can 1-2 shot most mobs.

[haxaw]

Correct. You can't even compare these classes as they have completely different roles/builds but every character is viable. Also there is no PVP in this game so class balance is not needed. Everything is balanced to cooperative play which is the way it should be. 

 

Completely disagree. Just because there's no PvP does not throw balance out the window. When one class is clearly superior (AW) or inferior (Katari), the frequency of seeing these classes be played is adjusted accordingly. If nothing else, I would think people would prefer having more varied teams.

 

Please stop saying "every character is viable". By that line of thinking, a character with Stealth, Caltrops, Evade, and Hook and Tackle is viable. And I bet plenty of players would be able to solo Perilous with it, too. But if I gave you a class whose best 4 skills were those, would you still say "it's fine, it's viable, leave it alone" ? If so, kudos to you.