1551 réponses à ce sujet

[MyKingdomCold]

So I don't recall what she said exactly but Vivienne basically said something like "no one is forced to live in a tower". A mage could choose to live elsewhere as long as they get permission, I guess? Also she obviously doesn't live in a tower.

So is what she says accurate or just her own experience? I know she also said that every circle tower isn't the same. So is she just sugarcoating the truth to justify her opinions on circle towers?

[MisterJB]

It is probably the truth as it is written on paper. However, just because mages can, technically, live in the outside world if granted permission, that doesn't mean that most or even many will ever be granted permission.

[Hellion Rex]

So I don't recall what she said exactly but Vivienne basically said something like "no one is forced to live in a tower". A mage could choose to live elsewhere as long as they get permission, I guess? Also she obviously doesn't live in a tower.

So is what she says accurate or just her own experience? I know she also said that every circle tower isn't the same. So is she just sugarcoating the truth to justify her opinions on circle towers?

I think her point is that if you play by the rules, you may be granted more privileges, i.e. the Templars are more willing to trust you.

 

She adhered to the Circle's rules, and became First Enchanter, so I'm not surprised she had unique and special privileges.

[dragonflight288]

I think a little of everything. 

 

Vivienne is a master of the Game, and is all about obtaining more power, political or otherwise for herself. She also says that it's impossible for her to say what life in the Circle's were like because life in the Circle was unique to each mage. Some mages based on their own experiences, like Minaeve, saw the templars as protectors and guardians. While those who were in Kirkwall and suffered under Kerran, Alrik and Meredith's rules saw them as vicious tyrants. 

 

We see an example of mages being allowed to leave in Origins with Wynne getting permission from Irving to follow the Warden, and in the mage origin you can talk to the guards by the door and they'll say they hadn't gotten any news from the First Enchanter.

 

But we also see mages flogged for talking to civilians in Kirkwall, and the Rite of Tranquility has to be approved by both the First Enchanter and the Knight Commander, yet Meredith somehow got the authority to tranquilize or execute three mages at random based on if Grace and company willingly went back to the Circle (executed at random) or tricked the templars away (tranquilized at random). 

 

The overall issue with the Circles is that each Circle and how it runs differs based on who the Knight Commander is and how much they're willing to tolerate, and the fact that the Seekers weren't enforcing the rules as well as they should have been. 

 

 

I think her point is that if you play by the rules, you may be granted more privileges, i.e. the Templars are more willing to trust you.

 

She adhered to the Circle's rules, and became First Enchanter, so I'm not surprised she had unique and special privileges.

 

And she got in bed with the leader of the Council of Heralds and turned a court appointment from court magician and jester into a position of very real political power. 

[AshesEleven]

She's speaking from her own experience, obviously some Circles are more strict. But generally yeah, if you're a well behaved Mage you have more freedoms. Same situation as Wynne, really.

[Barquiel]

I alos think she's speaking from her own personal experience. Rhys for example mentioned in Asunder that outings into the city are no longer permitted.

[Master Warder Z_]

I alos think she's speaking from her own personal experience. Rhys for example mentioned in Asunder that outings into the city are no longer permitted.

After the world started to fall apart after a act of mage terrorism sure.

[AresKeith]

I alos think she's speaking from her own personal experience. Rhys for example mentioned in Asunder that outings into the city are no longer permitted.

 

Granted that was most likely the result of what Anders did in Kirkwall 

[X Equestris]

I alos think she's speaking from her own personal experience. Rhys for example mentioned in Asunder that outings into the city are no longer permitted.

Yes, but that is after the Templar crackdown that resulted from Anders destroying the Kirkwall Chantry. Before that, it seems that Vivienne was at least partially correct.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Truth hurts, dudn't it?

[Addai]

The Ferelden circle was supposed to be the most liberal of them and the mages weren't even allowed to go outside after Anders escaped a few (dozen) times. Then again, Finn and Ines could apparently go on long, unsupervised field trips. You'd think they'd spare a templar or two.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think Vivienne is being honest. We have seen several examples of Mages being granted freedom to leave the Tower, even ones allowed to without a Templar in sight. Kirkwall was just one of the exceptions to this. 

[keesio74]

Viv is right that it vary per Circle and even Mage. And for her, she had a privileged life. Her experience is the exception, not norm. As others have said, she is very shrewd and knows how to work the system to her advantage.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Vivenne outright admits she never lived in a Circle. I'd say take her opinions with a grain of salt. I doubt she'd be as positive if she lived in a more restrictive Circle like Kirkwall.

[AresKeith]

Vivenne outright admits she never lived in a Circle. I'd say take her opinions with a grain of salt. I doubt she'd be as positive if she lived in a more restrictive Circle like Kirkwall.

Even though she out right admitted that each circle was different (which was one of the problems) and acknowledged that Kirkwall was one of the worst

[Milan92]

Vivenne outright admits she never lived in a Circle. I'd say take her opinions with a grain of salt. I doubt she'd be as positive if she lived in a more restrictive Circle like Kirkwall.

 

And Kirkwall was a special case.

 

So yeah, ofcourse she would hate it.

[KaiserShep]

The human mage Inquisitor enjoyed certain freedoms in the Circle as well. S/he was still able to attend family gatherings and such, so that character presumably had a rather easygoing existence in the Ostwick Circle.

[daveliam]

Yeah, I think that this is a biased, but honest view of Vivienne's perspective.  She's obviously a master at manipulation for political ends and has managed to secure herself an atypical arrangement.  Because of that, she's likely to not sympathize much with those who don't do the same.  I'm sure that the 'truth' lies somewhere in between what we say at the Circle Tower and the Gallows and Vivienne's experience.  And by 'truth', I mean the 'norm'.  I think that the extremes are also the truth, but not the norm, if that makes sense.

 

We've heard of plenty of examples of mages being released from the Circle for a wide variety of reasons, so I don't think it's uncommon.  I think it's just rare to have permanent, unsupervised living arrangements away from the Circle, as Vivienne did.

[Herr Uhl]

Vivenne outright admits she never lived in a Circle. I'd say take her opinions with a grain of salt. I doubt she'd be as positive if she lived in a more restrictive Circle like Kirkwall.

 

When? She doesn't live in a circle now, but I'm fairly certain she has to have stayed at one at some point.

[LOLandStuff]

Vivienne grants them more freedom just so they could stop complaining.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Vivenne outright admits she never lived in a Circle. I'd say take her opinions with a grain of salt. I doubt she'd be as positive if she lived in a more restrictive Circle like Kirkwall.

Well most people who live on ancient Indian burial grounds that have been disturbed with a portal to hell while having an elder one living two doors over are not positive people, especially when damn Fereldan come into town stealing the best jobs in the banditry bus.....I think that metaphor ran away on me. Point is, we need to nuke Kirkwall from orbit and forbid anyone from entering the ruins.

[Sullen Boyd]

What disturbed me the most in her conversation was the inner conflict in what she was saying.  She stated that mages were not prisoners, but were allowed outside the tower, to work for nobles, or conduct research.  I assume working for nobles includes the mages working with the king's army.

 

But when she complains about the rebels, she states that people who never existed anywhere except in a tower were making decisions about the real world.  Was this hyperbole, or was she confirming mages were prisoners in their towers.  

[lynroy]

Oh my necro.

[Qun00]

Vivienne speaks from the privileged position of someone who's bedded a noble.