1551 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Yeah, as far as I know the comic written by Orson Scott Card has not been confirmed canon by developer fiat or any other source of lore.

[The Baconer]

The kingdom could do it. In fact, Hawke can suggest to Alistair in DA2 to take over the circle in place of the Chantry, and Alistair would actually do it if the Chantry didn't got on his way. If mages can live peacefully with the Inquisition soldiers, I don't see why the same couldn't happen with royal knights.

 

I don't think there is a demographic less accountable and responsible than the nobility.

[MisterJB]

 

I can't see things going well for Ferelden if they tried to control Kinloch Hold.
Their neighbours wouldn't be at peace with them suddenly being able to field hundreds of mages and earn a portion of their income while their Circles are strictly controlled by the Chantry.

I'd expect Royal Knigths, lacking the ability to negate magic and any previous contact with mages, would be far more fearful than Templars. And for good reason. They can't negate magic,

[Boost32]

I don't think there is a demographic less accountable and responsible than the nobility.

Just imagine how wonderful the world will be! The nobles will star their own arms race, where the weapons are the mages and after that they will start war using their power! How can things go wrong?

[Jaison1986]

 

 

I can't see things going well for Ferelden if they tried to control Kinloch Hold.
Their neighbours wouldn't be at peace with them suddenly being able to field hundreds of mages and earn a portion of their income while their Circles are strictly controlled by the Chantry.

I'd expect Royal Knigths, lacking the ability to negate magic and any previous contact with mages, would be far more fearful than Templars. And for good reason. They can't negate magic,

 

 

How come the Inquisition manages to control the rebel mages with little to no templars at their disposal? The worse that can happen is making Erimond tranquil and the mages get all touchy about it.

[leaguer of one]

Just imagine how wonderful the world will be! The nobles will star their own arms race, where the weapons are the mages and after that they will start war using their power! How can things go wrong?

Seriously, no one ever thought about this  who is anti-circle?

[leaguer of one]

If history has proven anything, is that religious groups are absolutely the worst possible choice to regulate any group that does not fall into their dogma. Namely how the church in older times did all they could to sensor scientific research.

Correction: History have proven that extremist are the worst possible choice in regulate any group. Religion has nothing to do with it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Just imagine how wonderful the world will be! The nobles will star their own arms race, where the weapons are the mages and after that they will start war using their power! How can things go wrong?

Well that was one thing the circle was designed to prevent

[Jaison1986]

Correction: History have proven that extremist are the worst possible choice in regulate any group. Religion has nothing to do with it.

 

Religion is well known to hold hands with the extremism. Just give them a little power and it aways go downhill. Religion might not be the only source of extremism, but it's more prone to fall towards it then other ideologies.

[Master Warder Z_]

._.

 

Blatantly inaccurate.

 

If you are going by reality the most blooded soaked ideology in history was strictly atheistic, in fact most extremes tend to be that way, they put State above even God, religious institutions are a threat to power.

[Jaison1986]

._.

 

Blatantly inaccurate.

 

If you are going by reality the most blooded soaked ideology in history was strictly atheistic, in fact most extremes tend to be that way, they put State above even God, religious institutions are a threat to power.

 

But such groups are easier to eliminate. Even when religion proves itself to be vile and terrible, it takes ages for people to finally eliminate it. It was like that with the Greeks, the Romans, Egypt, etc.

[Master Warder Z_]

But such groups are easier to eliminate. Even when religion proves itself to be vile and terrible, it takes ages for people to finally eliminate it. It was like that with the Greeks, the Romans, Egypt, etc.

 

So your argument is...religion can be bad...

 

Ok.

[Jaison1986]

So your argument is...religion can be bad...

 

Ok.

 

Z, you are one of the biggest extremists in this forum, so it's not like I take your opinion very seriously to begin with. But no, the argument is that when religion is bad it's harder to eliminate it when it proves to be harmful, compared to other groups, and that makes it generally worse. But when they are not? Yeah, sure whatever, do what they want.

[Master Warder Z_]

Who are you again?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

How come the Inquisition manages to control the rebel mages with little to no templars at their disposal? The worse that can happen is making Erimond tranquil and the mages get all touchy about it.

It's partially because you're trying to literally save the world from a clear and present danger to it. It's partially because the mages have nowhere else to go, between rejecting the Chantry and Ferelden's monarchy no longer wanting them. It's partially because this is the worst transgression of their values that you're allowed to do that doesn't bar you from getting this mission at all (apart from Tranquiling the more sympathetic Alexius) and is arguably justifiable. It's partially because the Inquisition is known to not be entirely without Templar members.

 

It's partially because you can only do this if you're a mage yourself, and I think the advisers speculate that all of the rest of this would not have been enough if it weren't for that factor. And I'm pretty sure it's explicitly stated that even then, it's a close thing. Edit: Having gone on the wiki and reread it's only Cullen that states that that helped, but I don't think he's entirely wrong.

[MisterJB]

To add to what Riverdale says, there are other incidents.

 

For instance, if conscripted, three mages try to break out of Skyhold. There is a lone Templar at the door and he stops them.

 

Plus, the continuous stream of normal folk willing to kill and die for the Herald might help them keep in line.

If I recall correctly, the whining mage always complain how they were set apart regardless of Fraternities or Circle which is a smart move. Maybe Cullen made sure there were never more than a dozen mages in a group and there were ten normal soldiers for every mage.

 

But, mostly, it's probably because they really have no other options. Not that they haven't bitten the hand that fed them before, mind you.

[MisterJB]

 

Besides, it's not as if DAI tried to be absolutely realistic.

 

For instance, we have a huge army which we can routinely use. However, we never receive complaints how Inquisition soldiers attacked and looted defenseless villages.

It's as if our forces are incapable of commiting war crimes. So, logically, they also weren't really interested in writing war table missions where a soldier looked at a mage in a funny way and the mage, feeling emboldened by the Inquisition's support and the lack of Templars around, decides to teach that "lowly peasant" a lesson.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Besides, it's not as if DAI tried to be absolutely realistic.

For instance, we have a huge army which we can routinely use. However, we never receive complaints how Inquisition soldiers attacked and looted defenseless villages.
It's as if our forces are incapable of commiting war crimes. So, logically, they also weren't really interested in writing war table missions where a soldier looked at a mage in a funny way and the mage, feeling emboldened by the Inquisition's support and the lack of Templars around, decides to teach that "lowly peasant" a lesson.

Then that means that pretty much your arguments could easily be ignored and Mage freedom works without problems. What would you do if Mage freedom wound up being better than circles?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Then that means that pretty much your arguments could easily be ignored and Mage freedom works without problems. What would you do if Mage freedom wound up being better than circles?

I can't answer for Z or JB, but for myself the answer is "advocate for it." The problem is that I'm not entirely sure those who already do have proven their case, and there is in-game support for the opposite.

[Master Warder Z_]

I can't answer for Z or JB, but for myself the answer is "advocate for it." The problem is that I'm not entirely sure those who already do have proven their case, and there is in-game support for the opposite.

If I honestly thought it work why wouldn't I support it?

It's too large a leap to assume everyone and everything will be fine, that the system won't hit a snag and it won't result in another Rivain or Maker forbid Tevinter.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Mages were locked up for good reason , lore explained and showed many times why they were in circles.Saying that everything would be better with freedom would be like saying that crime would drop because you removed law enforcers ,just horrible writing. To be honest if they keep up with that i will be disappointed that they have turned complex issue into something so simplistic and out off the touch with reality like "give people freedom and it will solve everything".

[Iakus]

Then does that mean the freedoms that were previously allowed, were actually a dysfunction that should be corrected? If that were the case, why even cite said previous freedoms as a point in favor of the Circle system?

It means there are no easy answers

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If I honestly thought it work why wouldn't I support it?

It's too large a leap to assume everyone and everything will be fine, that the system won't hit a snag and it won't result in another Rivain or Maker forbid Tevinter.

And that is why I don't honestly think it will work barring in-game evidence.

[Drasanil]

How come the Inquisition manages to control the rebel mages with little to no templars at their disposal? The worse that can happen is making Erimond tranquil and the mages get all touchy about it.

 

1 - The Inquisition still has templars, just not as many as if you had done Champions of the Just (just like it still has some mages, just not as many, if you do Champions). See Lysette walking around camp, the garrison commander in the western approach, mentioned templars in the war table missions, option to build a templar tower even if you side with mages.

 

2 - The Inquisition just saved the entirety of the doomed mage rebellion and is basically their only chance at coming out of it on top. Playing ball is about their only option.

 

3 - There's a clear and very present danger keeping everyone in line and focussed on a common goal. No time for bickerng with Corypheus about.

 

4 - The Inquisitor, despite potential protests contrary, is widely viewed as having a divine mandate and being the Maker's chosen. Do you really think your average person, mage or non-mage, would be looking to pick a fight with them?

[Kakistos_]

No, Meredith called for the Rite as a direct response to Anders committing mass murder with the bombs he built.

Incorrect. If you speak with Orsino and various Templars in the Gallows  just before "The Final Straw" it is revealed that Meredith already sent the request to Orlais.