1551 réponses à ce sujet

[SmilesJA]

Compared to the other Circles, Viviene lived a privileged life. Unfortunately this distorted her view of the Mages and Templars.

[thesuperdarkone2]

50 pages. New record?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Compared to the other Circles, Viviene lived a privileged life. Unfortunately this distorted her view of the Mages and Templars.

Wonder how she would be if she was sent to kirkwall's circle

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Compared to the other Circles, Viviene lived a privileged life. Unfortunately this distorted her view of the Mages and Templars.

 

Actually, Vivienne's Circle is likely closer to the norm than the other ones!

 

Feynriel: "I know it's different in other Circles, but here, anything the Templars don't like and you get the 'brand."

Keran: "(The mage conspirators) want the Circle, they just want it working like it should."

[Iakus]

The Pro-Cicle seem to be under the assumption that they've cured the Circle's ills since most of the abusive characters have been eliminated in the narrative but those characters are a product of the divisive ignorance the Circle's propagate. Even Riverdaleswhiteflash who claim to support the dignity of mages is willing to give mages 'a raw deal" for the sake of the "safety" of the "majority". This is the same mentality that created Merideth and Lambert. Let us consider that perhaps the Circles will return to it's abusive nature because fear allows men to justify their evils. So perhaps magical regulation's solution is not as simplistic as cutting off abusive elements. Rather perhaps the solution is evolving and addressing society's relationship with magic.
 

That is certainly a possibility.  Just because the bad apples have been picked out doesn't necessarily mean the barrel won't spoil again.

 

Regulation of magic is not a simple matter when you have to balance public safety with personal dignity.

 

Compared to the other Circles, Viviene lived a privileged life. Unfortunately this distorted her view of the Mages and Templars.

Did it distort her view, or simply give her a different perspective?  SHe experienced a CIrcle life without the abuses some Templars heaped upon mages.  Wouldn't it be nice if all mages had a chance to live more in-line with Vivienne's expereinces?

[Shienis]

The Pro-Cicle seem to be under the assumption that they've cured the Circle's ills since most of the abusive characters have been eliminated in the narrative but those characters are a product of the divisive ignorance the Circle's propagate. Even Riverdaleswhiteflash who claim to support the dignity of mages is willing to give mages 'a raw deal" for the sake of the "safety" of the "majority". This is the same mentality that created Merideth and Lambert. Let us consider that perhaps the Circles will return to it's abusive nature because fear allows men to justify their evils. So perhaps magical regulation's solution is not as simplistic as cutting off abusive elements. Rather perhaps the solution is evolving and addressing society's relationship with magic.

 

~snip~

To test the limits of magic and learn to weild it properly is the only way to safely address the relationship with magic. 

 

Then tell us, sir anti-Circle: How exactly do you imaging the new mages will be taught to wield magic responsibly, if there will be no Circles? Sure, the rich kids can get private tutors, because their parents will be able to afford them, but what about the poor ones? Will they be left to learn themselves via the popular try-error method?

[Sports72Xtrm]

Then tell us, sir anti-Circle: How exactly do you imaging the new mages will be taught to wield magic responsibly, if there will be no Circles? Sure, the rich kids can get private tutors, because their parents will be able to afford them, but what about the poor ones? Will they be left to learn themselves via the popular try-error method?

The Avvar learn their magic from spirits with the barest of necessities. All is needed is an organization to orchestrate it. Provided these poor parents aren't foolish enough to snub help and eschew such "primitive" cultures. Even Feyriel was happier knowing he can gain knowledge and freedom by going with the Dalish. Most of the time, the knowledge is right there for those willing to look.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Then tell us, sir anti-Circle: How exactly do you imaging the new mages will be taught to wield magic responsibly, if there will be no Circles? Sure, the rich kids can get private tutors, because their parents will be able to afford them, but what about the poor ones? Will they be left to learn themselves via the popular try-error method?

College of enchanters says hi

[Barquiel]

Wonder how she would be if she was sent to kirkwall's circle

Montsimmard was probably one of the better circles and Vivienne still did everything in her power to escape its trappings and the authority of the templars...
 

Then tell us, sir anti-Circle: How exactly do you imaging the new mages will be taught to wield magic responsibly, if there will be no Circles? Sure, the rich kids can get private tutors, because their parents will be able to afford them, but what about the poor ones? Will they be left to learn themselves via the popular try-error method?

I think that even those who say mages should be free will agree that magical education should be mandatory, and I suppose some kind of test of a mage's control is also necessary. But once they're trained, they should be free to go.

[Shienis]

College of enchanters says hi

 

So something like Circle, but with different name. OK.

[Drasanil]

Montsimmard was probably one of the better circles and Vivienne still did everything in her power to escape its trappings and the authority of the templars...

 

You mean by becoming its First Enchanter and being responsible for it? Strange sort of escape that, binding yourself intrinsically to the well being of the thing you want to get away from. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So something like Circle, but with different name. OK.

Something like the Circle, with a different name and no Templars. That might be an improvement, or it might not be, depending on how the mages run it. I will note, however, that I'm worried about the mages governing themselves with (apparently) no oversight. If the Inquisition is allowed to step in should the College do something stupid, okay. Otherwise I predict this ending badly.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Pro-Cicle seem to be under the assumption that they've cured the Circle's ills since most of the abusive characters have been eliminated in the narrative but those characters are a product of the divisive ignorance the Circle's propagate. Even Riverdaleswhiteflash who claim to support the dignity of mages is willing to give mages 'a raw deal" for the sake of the "safety" of the "majority". This is the same mentality that created Merideth and Lambert. Let us consider that perhaps the Circles will return to it's abusive nature because fear allows men to justify their evils. So perhaps magical regulation's solution is not as simplistic as cutting off abusive elements. Rather perhaps the solution is evolving and addressing society's relationship with magic.

I don't believe it's necessarily true that the Templars are going to go back to the (indisputably bad) way things were before. I also don't necessarily believe it's necessarily true that the College will become corrupt. But ask me which one I'm more willing to risk.

 

Zathrian's clan does lead to the werewolf curse and nearly destroyed his clan and unleashed an magical epidemic on Thedas. But he did so even when the Circle's were fully active. Would threatening him with templars have stopped him from cursing those humans? Decimus and Uldred summoned demons and undead even within the watch of the Circles. All they had to do was plan and wait for the right opportunity. Blackwall once told Solas that he wished the Chantry could better regulate magic but Solas responded that "Such rules never hold. Any who want victory will find some reason their cause merits exception. The best we can do is ensure the world still stands when this fight ends." Which I believe magic could serve well in that capacity.

Zathrian being locked up would have stopped him from cursing those humans. I really don't get how what he did outside of the Circles is an argument for not applying them; if anything it's a better reason to apply them more widely. Now, if the mages can still do that sort of thing in the Circles, they can't do so as freely and there are at least fewer civilians in easy reach for them to do it to. And if things get so far out of control that civilians outside the Circles are threatened, that's why the Right of Annulment was granted. There's a difference between a system being perfect and a system being useless.

 

 

As Merrill states, "Magic can't be made safe and it can't be destroyed". So why not learn to weild magic responsibly? I daresay even blood magic can be used responsibly if taught to be wielded properly. After all, Magic is but a tool. Like learning to drive, sure wielding a car could be dangerous but it's also an unavoidable part of life that will be used and that non-mages and mages alike have to learn to accept. The solution is simple. In my opinion, instead of eschewing magic because of ignorant judgmental self-righteousness, maybe the Chantry should promote it's pragmatism. That includes blood magic, summoning spirits, and the like. Allow the mages to teach themselves to wield it responsibly.

"Learn to wield magic responsibly" is the entire point of the Circles. The Circles are, at least in theory, teaching mages how to use magic and some degree of responsibility. Maybe you noticed the child apprentices during the Mage Origin being given a social responsibility pep talk by their teacher, or the older apprentice learning how to control fire? The main problem with the Circles is that they weren't all more like the Ferelden one.

 

And after the mages are taught, they're allowed to join the Wardens, or fight in Blights, or attach themselves to nobles. If mages are kept under surveillance most of the time, magic isn't being entirely eschewed. Entirely eschewing magic would look more like the Tranquil solution, which you'll notice wasn't employed despite Alrik's agitating.

 

The one bit of this I agree with you on is that blood magic has its uses. But it also has strong enough potential for abuse that I am very leery about it being widely known. If I were to create a program to teach blood magic, I would have the mages who knew it carefully vetted before learning it and pick and choose each bit the mages learned very carefully. And if I concluded that a mage knew it who wasn't supposed to I'd have the matter looked into by the mages I trusted strongly enough that if they've turned I probably need to Annul the Circle. (If there are no such mages at that Circle Blood Magic should not be taught there.)

 

(You'll note that spirit summoning is, in fact, taught at the Circle. Rhys and Anders both learned it there. Demon summoning should not be taught there. Or anywhere. Using spirits that aren't demons is dangerous enough.)

 

And use spirits like Cole or Wynne's spirit of faith to channel their special talents to weed out the corrupt elements.

Using spirits is always dangerous. Using them to kill, if that's what you meant, is a bit riskier.

 

 

In my opinion, such magic can only come about with freedom to explore magic and not be persecuted for it. Of course, many believe cutthroat oppression is the only way to regulate magic in society but that way creates more hostility, more abuse, more war. It's comforting to believe in corrupt hierarchies for "stability" and familiarity but it's lie they tell themselves. As Solas tells Vivienne," Your Circle was a tightly clamped lid on a boiling pot. It held for a while, and, unless you looked inside, it all seemed fine. And everyone feigned surprise when it finally burst."

Mages had the freedom to explore most of the safer forms of magic, and the ones who try new things (within those limits) aren't "persecuted" any more than the ones who don't. I agree that exploring Blood Magic would probably be useful, but the options we have for how things go forward are Circles under Vivienne and Cassandra (who won't allow blood magic) and the College under Leiliana (and I'm worried about the implications if the College of Enchanters is doing so without oversight.) So, blood magic study of the sort I want is probably not going to happen.

 

 

In due time, the mages will either rebel or Tevinter will become a beacon of freedom for magic that will challenge southern thedas' tyranny.

Tevinter is not going to challenge Southern Thedas until the Qunari problem is solved, and possibly not even then. And as for another mage rebellion... well, the mages get some of what they wanted in any ending to this game. A woman who acknowledges that the Templars need to be controlled better ends up on the Sunburst Throne in any situation. Most of the worst of what the mages suffered is over with for now, and if that works better the next Divine will presumably have the brains to take note. Eventually the lessons that pushing the mages too far leads to bad things might be forgotten, but that's probably going to take a while considering the devastation the mage rebellion caused.

 

To test the limits of magic and learn to weild it properly is the only way to safely address the relationship with magic. That's never going to happen if non-mages think the solution is to nuke everything they perceive as a threat and grinding innocent mages to the ground in the process.

To some degree I think that testing the limits is a good idea. But there is at least one art (demonology) where the limits don't matter so much as your limits do, and finding your limit means an abomination or a plague of demons, or likely both.

[Livi14]

Compared to the other Circles, Viviene lived a privileged life. Unfortunately this distorted her view of the Mages and Templars.

This. She lives in a palace with no templar in sight but wants to lecture everyone how great circles are, and how wanting personal liberty is wrong and stupid. She would rather see other mages kept under a broken system in which they are oppressed than give up the power she's spent her life cultivating.

[thesuperdarkone2]

This. She lives in a palace with no templar in sight but wants to lecture everyone how great circles are, and how wanting personal liberty is wrong and stupid. She would rather see other mages kept under a broken system in which they are oppressed than give up the power she's spent her life cultivating.

Notice how she also forgets to mention that all those rights that Vivienne likes to boast about in circles were removed by the Templars who started turning circles into actual prisons. Either she wanted to remove blame from Templars or she didn't know. Either is bad .

[Boost32]

This. She lives in a palace with no templar in sight but wants to lecture everyone how great circles are, and how wanting personal liberty is wrong and stupid. She would rather see other mages kept under a broken system in which they are oppressed than give up the power she's spent her life cultivating.

She would be a poor First Enchanter if she didnt live in a Circle, she can leave wherever she wants, still she need to be there to work.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Notice how she also forgets to mention that all those rights that Vivienne likes to boast about in circles were removed by the Templars who started turning circles into actual prisons. Either she wanted to remove blame from Templars or she didn't know. Either is bad .

She does acknowledge that the Templars needed better oversight than they were getting. If she didn't experience the worst of it, you still can't pretend she's completely unaware that it exists.

[Illegitimus]

But with the priesthood wide-open and mages deregulated, I am seeing nothing to stop a mage supremacist from becoming Divine in Leliana's setting.

 

Hey woah.  The priesthood isn't wide open.  Men and mages are still persona non grata, right?

[thesuperdarkone2]

She does acknowledge that the Templars needed better oversight than they were getting. If she didn't experience the worst of it, you still can't pretend she's completely unaware that it exists.

She NEVER references all mages losing their privileges or Lambert turning the circles into Mage prisons. She places the full blame on the mages and never acknowledges that the Templars started the killing or how the vote was sanctioned by the Divine.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

She NEVER references all mages losing their privileges or Lambert turning the circles into Mage prisons. She places the full blame on the mages and never acknowledges that the Templars started the killing or how the vote was sanctioned by the Divine.

She doesn't place full blame on the mages. She doesn't go into specifics, but she does note several times that the Templars were out of control.

[Boost32]

She NEVER references all mages losing their privileges or Lambert turning the circles into Mage prisons. She places the full blame on the mages and never acknowledges that the Templars started the killing or how the vote was sanctioned by the Divine.

The vote wasnt sanciones by the Divine, she let them discuss reforms of the Circle and the cure of tranquility, when Fuona tried to succeded from the Chantry before, the Divine disbanded the College, so Fiona was doing something illegal when she proposed the vote.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I don't believe it's necessarily true that the Templars are going to go back to the (indisputably bad) way things were before. I also don't necessarily believe it's necessarily true that the College will become corrupt. But ask me which one I'm more willing to risk.

Your willing to risk it because you believe your preconception (i.e., templars going bad is less risky or dangerous than the College going bad) is valid. But what if it isn't? What if the templars prove to be more dangerous than the college? We just learned they drink the blood of some ancient being that we know nothing about and can be corrupted, like the Shal-brytol or the red templars. May I be so bold as to assert that what you are willing to risk could be the folly of your biases?

 

 

Zathrian being locked up would have stopped him from cursing those humans. I really don't get how what he did outside of the Circles is an argument for not applying them; if anything it's a better reason to apply them more widely. Now, if the mages can still do that sort of thing in the Circles, they can't do so as freely and there are at least fewer civilians in easy reach for them to do it to. And if things get so far out of control that civilians outside the Circles are threatened, that's why the Right of Annulment was granted. There's a difference between a system being perfect and a system being useless.

 

And Orsino being locked up in the Gallows didn't stop him from becoming a Harvester. Locking mages up does not guarantee the overall safety of the populace. You can say that the Rite of Annulment and the abuse of the Rite of Tranquility will always suppress the mages, but the mages learned how to reverse the Rite, and more mages with exceptional skills like Dreamers such as Feynriel or Avexis who could control dragons can fight off an annulment. Judging by the choices of Hawke, even the Kirkwall Circle could survive an Annulment. It has served the nonmages for a long time because many mages thought themselves powerless against templars but Kirkwall could show they could be defied. Some mages will even risk possession, consorting with demons/spirits, and blood magic to fight off the Rite of Annulment. And we are still certain that the Annulment could be an effective measure as magic becomes more of a powerful force of nature? If a Circle creates more problems than it can contain, if the Rite doesn't always succeed, than the safeguards are ineffective. If it's goal is a slaughter on every side, then yes it works but if it's to contain the dangers of magic, perhaps it's time to refine the methods and find a better way.

 

 

 

 

 

"Learn to wield magic responsibly" is the entire point of the Circles. The Circles are, at least in theory, teaching mages how to use magic and some degree of responsibility. Maybe you noticed the child apprentices during the Mage Origin being given a social responsibility pep talk by their teacher, or the older apprentice learning how to control fire? The main problem with the Circles is that they weren't all more like the Ferelden one.

 

The Ferelden one which Uldred and his blood mage followers created a Circle so unstable that Cullen considered it worse than Kirkwall? How to wield magic is not the same as how to apply magic ethically. And that line of inquiry may lead mages to question if the Circles themselves are ethical.

 

 

 

 

And after the mages are taught, they're allowed to join the Wardens, or fight in Blights, or attach themselves to nobles. If mages are kept under surveillance most of the time, magic isn't being entirely eschewed. Entirely eschewing magic would look more like the Tranquil solution, which you'll notice wasn't employed despite Alrik's agitating.

The Grey Warden mages who were given freedom, such as Anders and Fiona, ended up revolting against the Circles. It's as samson says, magic is valuable to people who can exploit it. The Circles and Chantry believe in retaining the skills of mages without having to treat them as a person. How is that treating mages with dignity? Do you think the mages will truly be content to forever play the role of prized pet to the nonmages? It's similar to Leliana's relationship with Marjorlaine, you love them only when you can control them. Naturally, when they see their persecution, they'll lash out as she did.

 

 

 

 

 

The one bit of this I agree with you on is that blood magic has its uses. But it also has strong enough potential for abuse that I am very leery about it being widely known. If I were to create a program to teach blood magic, I would have the mages who knew it carefully vetted before learning it and pick and choose each bit the mages learned very carefully. And if I concluded that a mage knew it who wasn't supposed to I'd have the matter looked into by the mages I trusted strongly enough that if they've turned I probably need to Annul the Circle. (If there are no such mages at that Circle Blood Magic should not be taught there.)

 

(You'll note that spirit summoning is, in fact, taught at the Circle. Rhys and Anders both learned it there. Demon summoning should not be taught there. Or anywhere. Using spirits that aren't demons is dangerous enough.)

 

Using spirits is always dangerous. Using them to kill, if that's what you meant, is a bit riskier.

 

Well at least you are open about blood magic. Spirits used to kill is no more risky than spirits used to heal. If a demon intends harm, he'll do it unless the mage is vigilant enough. The Inquisition already uses Cole to kill. So long as those spirits operate in an ethical manner, I see no problem with it. Their abilities to read mind could help in fighting off maleficarum, criminals, and abominations. It seems like a more effective criminal justice system than Rites of Annulments anyways.

 

 

 

 

Mages had the freedom to explore most of the safer forms of magic, and the ones who try new things (within those limits) aren't "persecuted" any more than the ones who don't. I agree that exploring Blood Magic would probably be useful, but the options we have for how things go forward are Circles under Vivienne and Cassandra (who won't allow blood magic) and the College under Leiliana (and I'm worried about the implications if the College of Enchanters is doing so without oversight.) So, blood magic study of the sort I want is probably not going to happen.

So much freedom that they have to turn to the Mage Collective to do their research? Even the Divine had to be covert to research the Rite of Tranquility. I disagree. I believe biased ignorant nonmages who don't know a thing about magic suppressed academic study out of ignorance. Such fear of pragmatism is the problem. Oversight wouldn't be a problem if the nonmages developed a non-biased way to root out corruption other than persecution. and mages are persecuted no matter how much you pretty up the Circles. The Avvar-spirit relationship used to root out corruption, why not employ those methods? Despite so many contrary protests of it not working in a Circle fortress setting. it's possible and feasible if the College of Enchanters are granted the freedom to try it. Leliana and maybe even Cassandra I can see trying to employ such research but Viv, definitely not. She's too biased.

 

 

 

 

 

Tevinter is not going to challenge Southern Thedas until the Qunari problem is solved, and possibly not even then. And as for another mage rebellion... well, the mages get some of what they wanted in any ending to this game. A woman who acknowledges that the Templars need to be controlled better ends up on the Sunburst Throne in any situation. Most of the worst of what the mages suffered is over with for now, and if that works better the next Divine will presumably have the brains to take note. Eventually the lessons that pushing the mages too far leads to bad things might be forgotten, but that's probably going to take a while considering the devastation the mage rebellion caused.

 

To some degree I think that testing the limits is a good idea. But there is at least one art (demonology) where the limits don't matter so much as your limits do, and finding your limit means an abomination or a plague of demons, or likely both.

Maybe. Or maybe they will solve the Qunari problem. It'd be nice to see Tevinter regain it's glory a little in an expansion. Who's to say it won't happen. Or maybe it will be taken over by the Qunari. But Tevinter could be something Calpernia wanted it to be if Bioware made it so. And if it does, I can definitely see it challenging the Sunburst Throne or at least becoming so much of a threat to the White Chantry that it may be mentioned in an epilogue of a future DA game.

 

Demonolgy is no different the spiritology. What if that research can benefit spirit healers? It's perfectly safe so long as the study is controlled for danger.

[Sifr]

The vote wasnt sanciones by the Divine, she let them discuss reforms of the Circle and the cure of tranquility, when Fuona tried to succeded from the Chantry before, the Divine disbanded the College, so Fiona was doing something illegal when she proposed the vote.

 

Except that the Divine did sanction the conclave at White Spire to discuss those very issues, especially reforms and the future of the Circle. Meaning that any talk of disbanding the Circle and reforming it outside of Chantry control was bound to be on the table, even if that outcome was something the Chantry did not want to have happen.

 

The College also still exists, it was only the previous conclave that was shut down and forcibly disbanded during the previous attempt to vote on independence. Futhermore, it was never illegal to vote on independence, as the point of the conclave was for the Circle to discuss issues that affect all of them and they were allowed the right to both discuss and vote on them, including in this instance by Justinia.

 

The only reason no-one ever put the vote forward before was because the Chantry's authority was never in doubt and because no-one dared to put forth the motion, not because any particular rule prevented it.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Anyone who thinks annulments are never wrong should read he magehunter shield description. Also, the chantry forbids studying anatomy because they think it's blood magic. Seems the chantry encourages ignorance and stupidity

[Drasanil]

Your willing to risk it because you believe your preconception (i.e., templars going bad is less risky or dangerous than the College going bad) is valid. But what if it isn't?

 

But it is, templar abilities for the most part are only really a danger to mages and they aren't at an overwhelming advantage against common soldiers. So even if they go bad, you don't need rare specialist measures to counter them. Conversely whilst Red Templars pose a bigger threat and have power somewhat comparable to mages, they're also far more easily exposed because there is something visibly wrong with them. A mages on the other hand looks no different than any other person and can operate with relative impunity if they are clever about it. Meanwhile if enough mages band together to be a larger threat, you do need specialists [templars] to effectively deal with them, otherwise you're at a severe disadvantage. A proper trained mage could decimate a regiment of soldiers before they even get in reach.  

 

 

What if the templars prove to be more dangerous than the college? We just learned they drink the blood of some ancient being that we know nothing about and can be corrupted, like the Shal-brytol or the red templars. May I be so bold as to assert that what you are willing to risk could be the folly of your biases?

 

1) Sha-brytoal aren't really corrupted, not in the sense of madness/red lyrium corruption. They're fanatical about their protection of the 'titan'.

 

2) Mages also use that "blood". So what ever point about templars going bad because of it, applies to mages equally.

 

3) It's not actual blood.

 

 

And Orsino being locked up in the Gallows didn't stop him from becoming a Harvester.

 

Orsino was only able to turn himself into a harvester thanks to highly illegal research he received from an apostate. A ridiculously sick and dangerous one Orsino went out of his way to protect. If anything that's an example supporting more mage supervision not less.

 

Locking mages up does not guarantee the overall safety of the populace.

 

Nothing guarantees that. But its the approach which best contains the risk.

 

Judging by the choices of Hawke, even the Kirkwall Circle could survive an Annulment. 

 

Funny, I don't recall the templars, who are still firmly in control at the end even if Hawke sides with the mages, letting Hawke become viscount after he opposes the annulment. 

 

 

And we are still certain that the Annulment could be an effective measure as magic becomes more of a powerful force of nature?

 

Yes.

 

The Ferelden one which Uldred and his blood mage followers created a Circle so unstable that Cullen considered it worse than Kirkwall? How to wield magic is not the same as how to apply magic ethically.

 

The very same Circle that let Wynne wander off as she pleased because she asked. The same one that let Finn wander off because he felt like it. The same one that gave Ines the Botanist leave to study flora outside to her heart's content. Uldred was a tool and Anders a professional malcontent, if anything the evidence we have of Ferelden's circle is that it was rather permissive place if you didn't go out of your way to cause trouble.

 

The Grey Warden mages who were given freedom, such as Anders and Fiona, ended up revolting against the Circles.

 

And yet you have an entire order of mages, the knight enchanters, who have plenty of freedom and authority and they never revolted against the circle. Despite being the ones in the best position to do it and militarily lead a rebellion. Even Anders was happy to go back to the circles as an instructor after DA:A until we got the character abortion that was DA2 Anders/Justice. As for Fiona well... she's not exactly one whose judgement should be held up as an example.

 

 

The Circles and Chantry believe in retaining the skills of mages without having to treat them as a person. How is that treating mages with dignity? Do you think the mages will truly be content to forever play the role of prized pet to the nonmages?

 

1) Most mages are treated with dignity. In fact they have a better standard of living than the vast majority of Thedasians. Free education, health care, shelter, food. 

 

2) Mages aren't actually required to anything by the Chantry other than pass their harrowing, Uldred was notorious for sponging off the circle and never even bothering to even help apprentices. That aside I'm pretty sure the Chantry actively avoids placing mages in the position of prized pet, having a noble abuse a mage's magic really isn't all that much better in their eyes than having the mage abuse it themselves.

 

Naturally, when they see their persecution, they'll lash out as she did.

 

With the noted exception of Kirkwall. Mages aren't persecuted, they really aren't, they live better 99% of the population in Thedas. They're lashing out because they've never known hardship and think they're being mistreated. Just look at the mage-whiner Cassandra has to deal with after you recruit them. All of his complaints are about how the normal people accommodations aren't good enough. Sounds like an oppressed minority or an entitled one to you?