111 réponses à ce sujet

[Zorinho20_CRO]

I completely agree with OP.

Mages rock.AW is da best mage of all.

 

AW is our lord and saviour and without him,no one would be able to complete Perilous.

 

AW4L

 

Btw,all people should be blond,have blue eyes,oh wait../s

[Shahadem]

The problem is that the mages can fill every role almost perfectly....ranged dps, dps, tank, support, CC. Their dps isn't on par compared to some classes, but it is definitely suitable for all of the challenges that are currently available. 

 

A good start would be to nerf barrier and place more of an emphasis on guard being the main defense for the party's tanks, and combined with taunts, the main defense for your group. Barriers could be more effective against magic/ranged attacks, guard could be more effective against melee attacks.

 

In a perfect game, the hardest challenge would require/dang near require....a team with multiple roles filled by various classes. 

 

Maybe the mage's barrier could be a 5-8 second duration, to encourage more strategy when placing it. 

 

Sorry about all of the edits...it's late. 

 

But nerfing barrier would be seriously detrimental to the experience of every mage whose only reliable personal defense is barrier.

[Shinnyshin]

Ya. You're right. Maybe that's the real problem? Perilous is too easy to require an actual tank?

Actually, I think Lego is one of the strongest Perilous classes in the game right now and I believe most people don't understand exactly what he brings to the table.  Having a Lego means that Archers/Necros/Assassins/Reavers can do their thing with impunity, sometimes not getting shot at once for entire groups and focusing only on their own output.  Having a Lego means the rest of the team is getting free +20% damage steroids nonstop.  Having a Lego means you never have to worry about bosses.

 

I find people who dismiss the Lego generally make one of two errors: they reduce his role to his ability to survive or they use the scoreboard as a measuring tool.  To address the first, it's not effective health that makes you a tank--otherwise the AW would be the best tank in the game except maybe against Red Templars.  No, it's your ability to control threat.  Lego can pull every enemy within sight directly onto himself, can knock them down and keep many of them on himself, and can survive the entire thing.  Do you have any idea how much pressure that takes off the back ranks?  The rest of your team can afford to play so much more aggressively if they have a Lego.  No lowering damage to LoS threats, no having to kite, just raw offense.  That's MASSIVE.  And he can survive the consequences of his own aggro manipulation while reducing his own cooldowns for more aggro, which is stupidly overpowered.  Plus Cutting Words is spammed a free +20% damage for the whole team.

 

As to the second point, the scoreboard, the scoreboard discriminates heavily against Legos.  It's blatantly rigged.  You get points for how much damage you take, right?  That's one reason the AW always scores so high--he's doing damage while taking damage nonstop, giving him two sources of income.  Yeah, that doesn't work for the Lego.  Because his primary form of tanking has him take literally 0 damage due to invulnerability, he gets 0 points.  It's kinda a poorly designed tracker and would be a horrific oversight if points mattered more.  So Lego's points don't really take into account his taunts, his cc (most of it), or his damage soaking--they only really reflect his damage output, which is actually higher than you'd think.

 

There is, I suppose, another reason people underestimate the Lego: they build him wrong.  A Lego who takes the wrong skills looks really, really bad and drags down everyone's opinion of Legos.  And there are definitely wrong and right options in his build, some of which are pretty counterintuitive.  Shield Wall, for example, is a total trap skill.  Counterstrike is obscenely strong and doesn't actually have a 60 second cooldown.  Nonstop autoattacking with an axe is your personal heaven and lets you break the game.  But a lot of newer Legos--or people who rely on tooltips--don't know this at all, so some of the ones you run into make the class look impotent.  It isn't.  It's ridiculously broken and will only be more broken as the game progresses.

 

If you're absolutely end game and are speedrunning Perilous with 4 Archers like Veramis did, then perhaps Perilous is too easy to require anything but an Archer.  They cleared in what, 6 minutes?  But unless you kill everything--and I mean everything--as soon as you see it, which I can tell you Elementalist/AW/Necro/Keepers don't do, then any team under the sun will benefit from a Lego.

[Drasca]

 

unless you kill everything--and I mean everything--as soon as you see it, which I can tell you Elementalist/AW/Necro/Keepers don't do

 

My AW + Necro combos do instagib. Same with Templar 12-17k AoE Spirit Damage.  Then again WB + MB is obscene exp. Just learned that MB adds support exp as well. 3 necros + 1 keeper = 35k exp perilous runs.

 

Ele Chaotic Focus Fire mine is 4-5k non crit normally and 9k non-crit vs fire vulnerable targets. Quite nice when Pull / Static Caged.

 

Reaver is swinging at 3.8k per hit sometimes double hits with rampage dragon rage, one shotting smaller mooks and 3 shotting larger ones.

 

Katari is indeed hard to play. Harder than most other kits, but easier than most people perceive. Once you get good, you start wrecking house, especially with real offensive CC support (Pull of the abyss and/or static cage). FW is defensive CC, and eles are busy casting fire spells to cast barrier first (unless they're a chaotic focus fire mine ele).

 

MB can do about 4-6k or more AoE vs KD targets (more with freeze shatter or paralyze discharge), after CB does single to double hits for 1k each. It is fun to make enemies into roadkill.

 

Perilous not too hard to play whatever you like, for fun, if you have a decent group.

[Torkelight]

@ the OP: I'd like to see a vid of 4 mages doing perilous, after 3 days of playing, with grey weapons and no other items. I just dont believe it is possible without massive camping and then a whipe on stage 5 due to being overrun, if not before. You however, might have joined a group with three mages who were perilous ready, while you were not and they carried you. Of course if you play against demons you'd only need one AW to complete a perilous run. If you bring more people other factions becomes childs play too. Bottom line, I'm pretty sure you got carried hard. And you ask what now? Well I guess now you'd have to actually contribute.
 

 

Actually, I think Lego is one of the strongest Perilous classes in the game right now and I believe most people don't understand exactly what he brings to the table. 

My most played class obviously. And I agree.

I've mentioned this before but a lego build with Counterstrike + To the Death + War Cry + Walking Fortress will be able to taunt everything, giving the whole group +20% damage while at the same time keeping most aggro away from them. If you also have the equipment I do you will do tons of damage. I'm running it with Caliban, 2x10% crit damage rings, Dwarven Proven Shield and 15% CD amulet, I have about 40 Constitution  without skillbonuses and about 50 cunning with item bonuses. Which leaves me with almost 50% crit chance, which at the same time gives me one second less cool down every other time I hit. With animation cancelling you can hit quite fast. Together with a 10% extra damage per enemy I do a shitton of damage, and with TTD on large mobs or bosses, even more, while at the same time drawing all aggro.

 

With this build I can solo Perilous. So I guess my comment to the OP then is that you might as well get carried by me - all by my lonesome. Why run with any mages - when you can just get carried through perilous by a tiny dwarf?

[Zorinho20_CRO]

-snip

My most played class obviously. And I agree.
-snip

[TormDK]

I would argue that the Lego has it too good in the threat management compartment, given their immense survivability to top it off.

 

Especially if we consider two things;

 

1; Armour rating will likely go up as new tiers are opened up for. Singleplayer tanks have 350-450 armour (It's been awhile since I played SP, but I remember crafting T4 dragonbone armour with that amount), where as we can get about 100 right now. Thus improving Guard's value as time progresses.

 

2; We will likely see a difficulty after Perillous, and given how insanely damage seems to scale across difficulty settings, controlling mobs will be even more important.

 

We don't know what Bioware has in store for us from a new character perspective, and thus they will likely need to either fine tune tanking across the board, or create an even more overpowered tank in a DLC down the line.

[Mushgrump]

I would argue that the Lego has it too good in the threat management compartment, given their immense survivability to top it off.

 

Lego might be your personal favorite, and you might feel comfortable with it.

However, Lego has worse survival and dps than a Keeper.

 

solo keeper can kill end boss.

 

this is what happens to solo Lego when confronted with demon boss

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Lego might be your personal favorite, and you might feel comfortable with it.

However, Lego has worse survival and dps than a Keeper.

 

solo keeper can kill end boss.

 

this is what happens to solo Lego when confronted with demon boss

 

 

I do not know what is worse,that gif or your statement about Lego.

Edit

Removed disgusting picture.

[Shinnyshin]

My AW + Necro combos do instagib. Same with Templar 12-17k AoE Spirit Damage.

While I agree with the rest of your post, you and I are using different definitions of instagib. There's a specific Perilous speed run I'm referring to where four Archers longshot kill everything long before the Walking Bomb projectile could even reach the first target. That's pretty much the best case scenario for clears which makes everything with a travel time, or worse a walking time like AW and Templar, absolutely irrelevant. That comp is likely to be the speed clear record holder for the rest of the game's duration. But outside of that extreme context, which doesn't have a single mage, yeah. Everything (except Katari) can definitely pull its weight and many drastically undersell how much some classes bring to the table. Being "bad", in most cases, just means you require a more specific team comp.

[Shinnyshin]

Lego might be your personal favorite, and you might feel comfortable with it.

However, Lego has worse survival and dps than a Keeper.

 

solo keeper can kill end boss.

 

this is what happens to solo Lego when confronted with demon boss...

I've solod every single boss as Lego on Perilous.  I've clutched every single boss as Lego when disasters have happened--with worse gear than what I currently have.  While I was much worse at the game than I am now (even if I am hiatusing).  Funny enough, Venatori is the worst one to fight because the others are so much easier and faster for Lego to kill.

 

Your statement is not...accurate.

[Torkelight]

Lego might be your personal favorite, and you might feel comfortable with it.

However, Lego has worse survival and dps than a Keeper.

 

solo keeper can kill end boss.

 

this is what happens to solo Lego when confronted with demon boss

 

 

 

You dont know what you're talking about. You might have seen Lego's but you obviously havent seen any good ones.

[Mushgrump]

I've solod every single boss as Lego on Perilous.  I've clutched every single boss as Lego when disasters have happened--with worse gear than what I currently have.

 

Your statement is not...accurate.

ya soloing on perilous is not a bragging statement,

its more of a cry for help.

and why with Lego, a class well known to not have high dps/survival.

masochist.

[Torkelight]

Everything (except Katari) can definitely pull its weight

While Katari can't really go at it alone - in a good group it can certainly pull its one weight, which I have seen many times. 

[Torkelight]

ya soloing on perilous is not a bragging statement,

its more of a cry for help.

and why with Lego, a class well known to not have high dps/survival.

masochist.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. You should stop while it's entertaining. "A class well known to not have high DPS/Survival". Facepalm.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. You should stop while it's entertaining. "A class well known to not have high DPS/Survival". Facepalm.

Just ignore.Guy is obviously trolling.

[Kenny Bania]

I agree with the OP, which is the reason I only play the AW.

[Roc]

The most serious balance problem by a long, long way is Arcane Warrior. Way too easy to solo perilous and if the player is lazy they don't even bother feigning having to play as a team, leaving their party crawling along the floor. The combination of Spell Sword and Spirit Blade makes them more or less invulnerable.

 

I love to see keepers in the party, especially ones that know their role and live to serve and protect. Not so sure about the value of Elementalist and Necro yet though. Need to play them more I think to see where they best fit in.

[BeardyMcGoo]

many drastically undersell how much some classes bring to the table

 

Previously in this sentence...

 

Everything (except Katari) can definitely pull its weight

[TormDK]

Mushgrump - for the record, my only real "main" character is the Templar, so I would always advocate for Templar improvements, especially in the threat management area, where they are very much lacking.

 

All the truely good bits, are in the Divine tree, which leaves little reason for People to spec deeply into the Sentinel tree.

[Laughing_Man]

I can only say that over the time I played DAMP I saw people perform amazingly with classes like Assassin, Alchemist, Templar, Hunter, Legioner and Reaver.

 

I played for a while with Reaver myself, and enjoyed wrecking entire crowds of mobs and getting ludicrous (for me) kill streaks.

I also tried Templar, and was very impressed with the potential of his WoH and spell purge combo.

 

And on the other side of the coin, I saw many mostly-mages or even only-mages groups get wiped out.

 

I still like mage classes more, but that's more because of lore reasons and cool factor than anything else.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

A good start would be to nerf barrier

 

[HTTP 404]

I can't say I am as awesome as a player compared to others here but I have a similar experience with OP.  I completed Perilous runs with all mage groups and it was pretty easy.  Granted, I have not played a lot of it so my experience is narrow.

[Sidney]

I don't know if you need other classes but I will say that over the last 2 weeks it is getting rarely and rarer (on threatening at least) to see any warriors. It might not be 4 mages but it is increasingly 4 ranged characters. I think the melee classes take more skill and, again exempting the ubermensch that can top any board, score lower (and some of that for the Lego is likely always gonna be true) and so people are staying away from them more and more.