35 réponses à ce sujet

[b4ld5h3ph4rd]

In ME1 I saved Kaiden just to spite that Ashley because she's a racist. But now it doesn't seem that she would have been so bad to have on the team because of the way Kaiden pisses me off to no end.

 

Things Kaiden does that makes him deserve to be punched in the mouth:

 

01. Always bringing up Cerberus

02. Taking up Ashley's team select space

03. Having a Kai Leng mask costume option from a dlc

04. Having inexplicable mood swings

05. Making up his issues so that he can brood like Batman

06. Pretending to be troubled by something just to seem like a good person

07. Making mountains out of molehills

08. Being aloof on purpose and pretending that he doesn't like it

09. Being awkward and difficult all the time

10. Having Reave when we could have brought Samara for that

 

The thing is... I don't want to go all the way back to ME1, and my ME3 save has everything set up the way I like for female Shepard with the exeption of Kaiden. Any recommendations for a ME3 save editor that exists? There is none on Mass Effect 3 Nexus.

[shodiswe]

Ashley has similar issues. I hate to say it... But all my saves has Ashley in it because I was playing a Biotic/s in ME1 and it made sense to keep Ashley for the Squad balance.

At the same time I can understand how Cerberus was a sensitive topic considering all they had done and was still doing. Nevermind the freaky reaper inspired implants..

Still, everyone just hates hearing about it

Ashley's most adorable trait is probably how you find her drunk on the floor of the Normandy in ME3. Otherwise she's just brooding at the window.
Personally I just found it unprofessional and I'm not a big drinker so I can't relate to getting that drunk.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ah, Cerberus, bringing you tomorrow's problems today. Well, it was the plot railroad why we had to work for them in ME2. Still Shepard is a moron. But in ME3, Ashley spends much of the time half way through Rannoch on the floor nearly passed out drunk. It is why I have this conversation with Ashley in ME1.

 

[Vazgen]

Kaidan actually understands that not everyone in Cerberus is a terrorist. After Jacob's mission if I'm not mistaken. Ashley doesn't have such an evolution to her character. Even when I romanced her through the trilogy I always felt that distrust in her.

[Daemul]

Kaidan actually understands that not everyone in Cerberus is a terrorist. After Jacob's mission if I'm not mistaken. Ashley doesn't have such an evolution to her character. Even when I romanced her through the trilogy I always felt that distrust in her.

To be very frank, if you work for a terrorist group, the general population WILL see you as a terrorist, especially since you would need to agree with a terrorists groups philosophy in some way for you to even consider working for them in the first place, because no rational person would consider working with them otherwise.

Yeah, you may feel you have been lied to and misled about the group, but ain't no one going to believe that. It's why when Jacob joined the war effort, he got the cold shoulder from alliance people who knew that he was once part of Cerberus, they saw him as a traitor and didn't trust him at all.

So really, expecting Ashley's opinion of people who were apart of Cerberus to change just because they suddenly realised they were working for a really bad group isn't very realistic, because just about everyone would react like her. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist in people's eyes.

[Vazgen]

To be very frank, if you work for a terrorist group, the general population WILL see you as a terrorist, especially since you would need to agree with a terrorists groups philosophy in some way for you to even consider working for them in the first place, because no rational person would consider working with them otherwise.

Yeah, you may feel you have been lied to and misled about the group, but ain't no one going to believe that. It's why when Jacob joined the war effort, he got the cold shoulder from alliance people who knew that he was once part of Cerberus, they saw him as a traitor and didn't trust him at all.

So really, expecting Ashley's opinion of people who were apart of Cerberus to change just because they suddenly realised they were working for a really bad group isn't very realistic, because just about everyone would react like her. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist in people's eyes.

I'm not saying that she's unreasonable, I totally get the reason for distrust. I just say that Kaidan tries to see something good in Cerberus. Ash seemed to think that working with Cerberus changed Shepard. Even when you convince her otherwise, she is not willing to see Cerberus as anything other than terrorists. Kaidan thought that perhaps Cerberus was not as bad as everyone sees them and understood how ME1 Shepard could've worked with them. 

[Daemul]

I'm not saying that she's unreasonable, I totally get the reason for distrust. I just say that Kaidan tries to see something good in Cerberus. Ash seemed to think that working with Cerberus changed Shepard. Even when you convince her otherwise, she is not willing to see Cerberus as anything other than terrorists. Kaidan thought that perhaps Cerberus was not as bad as everyone sees them and understood how ME1 Shepard could've worked with them.

Tbh, after the stunts Cerberus pulls in ME3, Kaidan will probably be in a party of one with that view. Ain't nobody seeing any good in Cerberus, especially not after Sanctuary.

Anyone who has ever worked with Cerberus would be best served going into hiding at that point, because people will want blood.

[Vazgen]

Tbh, after the stunts Cerberus pulls in ME3, Kaidan will probably be in a party of one with that view. Ain't nobody seeing any good in Cerberus, especially not after Sanctuary.

Anyone who has ever worked with Cerberus would be best served going into hiding at that point, because people will want blood.

And yet there are ex-Cerberus scientists that work on the Crucible, ex-Cerberus Miranda that helps to stop the atrocities at the Sanctuary, Shepard, Kelly Chambers, Ken Donnelly and Gabi Daniels, Jacob Taylor. 

Cerberus used not to be pure evil and some of its members weren't fine with Reaperification of the organization. Kaidan understands that. Ash doesn't. Which is fine, since it kinda fits her character.

[JasonShepard]

Kaidan actually understands that not everyone in Cerberus is a terrorist. After Jacob's mission if I'm not mistaken. Ashley doesn't have such an evolution to her character. Even when I romanced her through the trilogy I always felt that distrust in her.

 

If you take Ash on the Cerberus Scientist mission, she does make some remarks that suggest a similar shift in views, if I'm recalling correctly. It's been a while since I played it though. There isn't a dedicated conversation to it though, unlike Kaidan. They chose to focus Ash's dialogue on her sister getting widowed and on Ash getting drunk. I really have no idea why...

[God]

In ME1 I saved Kaiden just to spite that Ashley because she's a racist. But now it doesn't seem that she would have been so bad to have on the team because of the way Kaiden pisses me off to no end.

 

Things Kaiden does that makes him deserve to be punched in the mouth:

 

01. Always bringing up Cerberus

02. Taking up Ashley's team select space

03. Having a Kai Leng mask costume option from a dlc

04. Having inexplicable mood swings

05. Making up his issues so that he can brood like Batman

06. Pretending to be troubled by something just to seem like a good person

07. Making mountains out of molehills

08. Being aloof on purpose and pretending that he doesn't like it

09. Being awkward and difficult all the time

10. Having Reave when we could have brought Samara for that

 

The thing is... I don't want to go all the way back to ME1, and my ME3 save has everything set up the way I like for female Shepard with the exeption of Kaiden. Any recommendations for a ME3 save editor that exists? There is none on Mass Effect 3 Nexus.

 

You think Kaidan is bad? Wait till you get Ashley

 

01. Ashley whines just as loudly, and she's a lot more antagonistic. Her lack of reflection and introspection is irritating to no end, trust me. At least Kaidan sort of tries to understand Cerberus.

02. Well, yeah. 

03. Ok, now I'm starting to think this is tongue in cheek.

04. Not really. From length of time on the ship to migraines, there's a few explanations to this issue.

05. Ashley does the same. As do many other squadmates.

06. Maybe he's not trying to be a good person and is legitimately troubled.

07. Oh believe me, Ashley does the exact same.

08. Wait, what?

09. Awkward isn't really a trait you can always help. Difficult... once again, just wait until Ashley rolls in.

10. Welp, can't help you there buddy.

 

There's the Genesis comic. That's all I can think of.

[God]

To be very frank, if you work for a terrorist group, the general population WILL see you as a terrorist, especially since you would need to agree with a terrorists groups philosophy in some way for you to even consider working for them in the first place, because no rational person would consider working with them otherwise.

Yeah, you may feel you have been lied to and misled about the group, but ain't no one going to believe that. It's why when Jacob joined the war effort, he got the cold shoulder from alliance people who knew that he was once part of Cerberus, they saw him as a traitor and didn't trust him at all.

So really, expecting Ashley's opinion of people who were apart of Cerberus to change just because they suddenly realised they were working for a really bad group isn't very realistic, because just about everyone would react like her. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist in people's eyes.

 

Cerberus isn't a terrorist group. 

 

Ashley's opinions (and many others in the alliance) are based on ignorance, and lack of will to understand things that they don't. It's a lack of reflection on philosophy, and it ascribes a label to a group that doesn't define it. 

 

Ashley has a very... objectivist point of view on her morality, and it comes to be that if you're not up to her moral standard, then you're crap in her eyes. Which tells me that her moral is heavily flawed considering she herself holds a lot more reprehensible views than anyone I can think of in Cerberus. 

 

And I'd say that Cerberus is predominantly made up of rationalists. The general population does have a tendency to be irrational after all. 

 

Makes me want to take Renegade control sometimes. Set people straight. Or wiping out.

[God]

If you take Ash on the Cerberus Scientist mission, she does make some remarks that suggest a similar shift in views, if I'm recalling correctly. It's been a while since I played it though. There isn't a dedicated conversation to it though, unlike Kaidan. They chose to focus Ash's dialogue on her sister getting widowed and on Ash getting drunk. I really have no idea why...

 

I've played it repeatedly. Ashley has no comment on the situation at all, during or after the mission, beyond a general 'these people are in trouble!'

 

I was expecting a scene similar to Kaidan's the first time through, where you're kinda sorta able to talk to him about why your Shepard might have believed (or still believe in my case) in Cerberus. It's one of the better dialogue scenes about Cerberus, seeing as it's one of the few points where Shepard can sort of make a pro-Cerberus stance in ME3, whereas the large majority of the game has you being relatively anti-Cerberus and being an alliance lapdog. 

 

Granted, I was also expecting a different context to the scene; My Shepard would take a much more hardline stance supporting Cerberus and take his time to dismiss Ashley's own views, pissing her off. 

[God]

Tbh, after the stunts Cerberus pulls in ME3, Kaidan will probably be in a party of one with that view. Ain't nobody seeing any good in Cerberus, especially not after Sanctuary.

Anyone who has ever worked with Cerberus would be best served going into hiding at that point, because people will want blood.

 

I see plenty of good in Cerberus, especially after Sanctuary. 

 

And my Shepard, the war hero that he is, will literally turn those people's views against them, telling them how they're worthless crap (that they are) for having to rely on him to save them and then daring to have the gall to question those that are better than they, those who are willing to do whatever it takes to protect them.

 

Their willingness to be what they are is what makes them great. My Shepard is tempted to go renegade control so that he can ensure that groups like Cerberus take their rightful place in the universe.

[God]

Granted, I'd say I'm leaps and bounds the most hardcore Cerberus supporter on these threads these days.

[Kynare]

People are always knocking on Kaidan for being an introvert/having no friends. Why? I like that about him. Although, I'm just as socially inept and have no friends as well, so maybe that factors into it.

 

Hm... I'll just return to my stargazing while I brood over this.

[God]

Kaidan's not an awkward guy with no friends. He might be awkward in a relationship or with the opposite sex, but he's not the kind of guy who's socially inept. That'd be Liara in ME1.

[Kynare]

Yeah, I never actually felt that way about his character either. That's why I don't get why people use that as a reason to hate him.

[themikefest]

Shepard never worked for Cerberus, she worked with Cerberus

 

Kaidan is ok. I just choose Ashley most of the time

[God]

Nah, my Shepard was a full on Cerberus member and agent. He willingly joined them in ME2. 

[themikefest]

I had no problem working with Cerberus in ME2 or at least with Miranda and TIM. 

[God]

Me either. Hell, my Shepard thinks it's some of the most important work he ever did. 

[Kynare]

After that Horizon meeting, I got really irked because my character didn't say the things I really wanted her to say. After receiving that email from Kaidan, I sat down for an hour writing something that I imagined my character would have sent in reply, lol. Something that really explained her outlook on Cerberus and why she was with them.

 

It sucks that they don't really let you get into that in the game. Even in ME3, Shepard just says "We joined forces to take down the Collectors--that's it!" and it sounded so weak, because I didn't even believe that myself. Especially when you encounter TIM at the Prothean device and you can try to persuade him to give you access to his resources. Someone who had absolutely zero allegiance towards Cerberus wouldn't have been so willing to ask for that.

 

So I think Shepard genuinely grew an allegiance towards Cerberus. Mine did, anyway. She was always iffy about TIM, but the Cerberus crew was her crew, and she knew them all as good people. Too bad they all got turned into human goop in my game. 

[Fixers0]

Bioware should have never come up with the Cerberus railroading to begin with. Problem solved. 

[God]

Then you'd have a game that would barely work or be functional with even less meaningful RP abilities overall than there ended up being.

 

Railroading isn't inherently bad. You need it to advance the plot without making the game too large that its impossible to make the story fit together.

 

I think they never should have railroaded how you can characterize your Shepard, especially in ME3. My Shepard feels about the alliance what a lot of Paragon players feel about Cerberus in ME2. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Then you'd have a game that would barely work or be functional with even less meaningful RP abilities overall than there ended up being.

 

Railroading isn't inherently bad. You need it to advance the plot without making the game too large that its impossible to make the story fit together.

 

I think they never should have railroaded how you can characterize your Shepard, especially in ME3. My Shepard feels about the alliance what a lot of Paragon players feel about Cerberus in ME2. 

 

The problem with the Cerberus railroad is that it's so poorly justified. And while Shepard is allowed to ****** and moan about it in pretty unspecific ways the options to legitimately challenge Cerberus/TIM over their many questionable or just outright dumb decision making is never presented, which makes the ultimately irrelevant complaining about Cerberus an unsatisfying consolation price. A lot of these issues do stem from ME2's central plot being terribly sloppy though -- which I guess is a sign that the writer's should have revalued the whole Cerberus thing.