199 réponses à ce sujet

[Terodil]

My problem with telemetry is that it's a strictly static, quantitative data source. It only shows data the system designers told it to collect. It may help analyse the key drop issue by contrasting the numbers for instances opened vs. instances successfully completed, for example, but it cannot help identify equally fundamental issues such as crafting bugs, or Ux issues.

 

In essence, telemetry is quite similar to automated testing (just with a user-provided data source), whereas customer feedback is the analogue to conventional testing by professional testers / end users.

 

Automated testing is brilliant to cut testing efforts for software components that evolve, i.e. where it's important that previously working functionality still works after a new version comes out. But do not doubt that the real meat in software QA always comes in the form of feedback from qualified, experienced testers, and is indispensable when innovation is disruptive.

[In Exile]

My problem with telemetry is that it's a strictly static, quantitative data source. It only shows data the system designers told it to collect. It may help analyse the key drop issue by contrasting the numbers for instances opened vs. instances successfully completed, for example, but it cannot help identify equally fundamental issues such as crafting bugs, or Ux issues.

In essence, telemetry is quite similar to automated testing (just with a user-provided data source), whereas customer feedback is the analogue to conventional testing by professional testers / end users.

Automated testing is brilliant to cut testing efforts for software components that evolve, i.e. where it's important that previously working functionality still works after a new version comes out. But do not doubt that the real meat in software QA always comes in the form of feedback from qualified, experienced testers, and is indispensable when innovation is disruptive.

Oh, you're entirely right in your critique of the method of telemetry Bioware uses. I'm not sure however if Bioware is relying just on that telemetry. I'd wager a lot of their decisions on KBM are influenced by the sales of PC games vs. console sales.

[Terodil]

Ho-hooom. Yeah. Thing is, they said that they much prefer to rely on their own telemetry than on feedback from their customers. It's basically either a declaration of bankruptcy (because they need telemetry to fix game-breaking bugs that can be caught via automated testing), or a declaration of disinterest (because they consider anything that goes beyond the functionality testable via telemetry as more or less irrelevant). Want to take a pick? >.>

[Lewie]

The pc controls are absolutely fine. It did take me a few hours. 

 

Less healing and oh my god people have to consider playing in real time... 

 

It will take a few years for people to see past their complaints though.

[slimgrin]

Still waiting on bindable mouse buttons

Still waiting on re-bindable LMB RMB

Still waiting on holding LMB RMB to move

 

Hoping for a better UI designed with a keyboard and mouse in mind and not just adding arrows to the console UI.

Hoping for Click to loot

Hoping for Click to move

 

Praying for better communication from the Developers!

 

I can't believe PC gamers bought this crock of sh*t. Several months out and they still haven't fixed these things? And these companies whinge about piracy. Well no wonder, when you ask 60 usd from PC gamers and you give them a pile of dung.

[Lewie]

Or, you must have the latest pc mouse with 50 buttons that you map your keyboard that could take off with enough power, is that it?

 

Is this the problem? Do people have more key bindings than sense? 

 

If you overcompensate then deal with it.

 

This game needs minimal and basic controls that do actually work. 

[Jeffry]

I can't believe PC gamers bought this crock of sh*t. Several months out and they still haven't fixed these things? And these companies whinge about piracy. Well no wonder, when you ask 60 usd from PC gamers and you give them a pile of dung.

I actually pre-ordered the game on PC from the local video game store was not sure about it, but, you know, they were giving us a cool Dragon Age themed custom-made coffee mug for free, so...

[Lewie]

A coffee mug? 

 

Sod all of it, me and my teabag will stay way over here. 

[DragonAddict]

PC gamers were told DAI is optimized for the keyboard and mouse.

 

 

We all paid money for DAI

 

 

At launch, DAI is not optimized for PC keyboard and mouse

 

 

Then we're told its fine and we are to adapt???

 

 

What an insult!!!

 

 

Maybe us unadaptive PC users all should torrent the game and get it for free.......or we could pay for it.

[Elhanan]

you just inadvertently summoned Elhanan, & Melca36 to descendupon your thread with their "righteous condemnation"!
 
lol, seriously though, we all are wondering the same.. Its painful for some, and clunky for others at the very least. Unresponsive, and sluggish if its now an "acrion" title!
 
Pay no mind to the bioware employees that follo laiming "the game is just fine", or "your too lazy, or ignoran to adapt"...

No need to comment as it is not needed my myself. But since I was invited, the game is fine as is for my game, as well as many others.

[Boogielicious]

the game is fine as is for my game, as well as many others.

 

Well, the game is not fine as is for my game, as well as many others.

 

Oooooh, see what I did there?  Yeah, we can play this all day.  The bottom line is, it's a matter of what you're accustomed to.  It's fine for some (and that's great, I'm sincerely happy for you & others that have no issue) but not fine for others.  It really is that simple.

So while I'm glad some people have no complaints, and accept that, those same people should accept that everyone is not them, have a different playstyle, and are not pleased.

[Elhanan]

Well, the game is not fine as is for my game, as well as many others.
 
Oooooh, see what I did there?  Yeah, we can play this all day.  The bottom line is, it's a matter of what you're accustomed to.  It's fine for some (and that's great, I'm sincerely happy for you & others that have no issue) but not fine for others.  It really is that simple.
So while I'm glad some people have no complaints, and accept that, those same people should accept that everyone is not them, have a different playstyle, and are not pleased.

Funny; you do not sound happy.....

The game does seem to need some fixes, but some Players also seem to need to read prereqs before installation. My rig is not top end, and only uses a basic KB&M, and all has been great thus far. I have no special skills or training, so the issue seems to be with varied Tech. And that may take some time to conjure a fix, as it would seem the more common gear is OK; problem seems to be with either the low or high end items.

[AlanC9]

Oh, you're entirely right in your critique of the method of telemetry Bioware uses. I'm not sure however if Bioware is relying just on that telemetry. I'd wager a lot of their decisions on KBM are influenced by the sales of PC games vs. console sales.

Probably. I'll bet that other decisions were influenced by looking at other PC games. I can see how they wouldn't see noncombat click-to-move, click-to-loot, and toggleable loot highlights as essential features when millions of Skyrim players get by just fine without those features. Unmodded Skyrim-PC gets well-deserved grief, but not for those things.

[Rizilliant]

Oh, you're entirely right in your critique of the method of telemetry Bioware uses. I'm not sure however if Bioware is relying just on that telemetry. I'd wager a lot of their decisions on KBM are influenced by the sales of PC games vs. console sales.

Yes, i sure the decision to import basic controller controls to pc was specifically related to cost, and cost only.. The fact remains, that they did sell it on PC, and PC main control component are m+kb.. They stated the controls would be that of previous games, and delivered none of it.. Whether you enjoy, or agree with click to move/loot, or rmb/lmb movement is moot.. It is how the past games were made, and how we were told it would be. Disabilities make it literally "painful" for some to use WASD.. Which is in no small part, why some play this genre, and type of game! 

[Jeffry]

A coffee mug? 

 

Sod all of it, me and my teabag will stay way over here. 

 

Spoiler

 

- I'd guess resin on the outside, stainless steel on the inside. Imo it was an interesting gift, not many retailers go the extra mile to bring you something unique at no extra cost for you.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Why the hell would anyone want click to move? What is this, the nineties or something?

Because we could before? Because some of us are old school RPG players who have been doing it that way forever and that's what we prefer?

And have you not played a MOBA recently? They are click to move based combat systems that are very current.

[Lewie]

Spoiler

 

- I'd guess resin on the outside, stainless steel on the inside. Imo it was an interesting gift, not many retailers go the extra mile to bring you something unique at no extra cost for you.

Oh..

 

You were serious.

 

Nice mug. 

[mutantspicy]

Ehhhh.... I don't think this holds up.  For one, there are some clear commonalities in much of the criticism of the UI and control scheme for KB/M.  For starters, the game was pitched as "for the PC," and some common and well-established features of PC control schemes are missing.  Note for the lawyerspeakers: "they meant PC with a controller" is incorrect but thanks for playing.  That's not how it was pitched, and it's not the common meaning of something being "designed for the PC."

 

To say they're not doing anything because they can't hit 100% of the issues is to not release a game.  Every software is released without 100% of desired, or even promised, features.  Doesn't mean you give up, go home, and decide to herd sheep instead.  It's falling for the same false logic that is intended to excuse lack of communication, no news in News and Announcements, no responses in the Feedback subforum labelled as a way to get info "directly" to BW staff: some of you are really mean so we're not talking to any of you, and this forum is a privilege.  Actually, this forum's access is granted only by purchasing the game.  So I paid for it.

 

There is an obvious line there where an extreme of behaviour is not to be tolerated from an individual doing it, but that's a far cry from painting this paid access as "being part of the community is a privilege."  Actually, I'm a paying customer.

 

Even discounting the enormous overlap in many of the control issues - either established standard on modern hardware, like binding keys and extra mouse buttons, or some of the most frustrating aspects pointed out by many - there was still a commitment made to addressing these concerns.  It's one of the last posts we got on the subject, but there it is.  

 

Finally, if it really is difficult to address the majority of clear issues with the controls and UI.... then that itself is a strong indication that it is not a well-designed control scheme or UI, and should be fixed in some way, even if that way is not the specific suggestion offered by any one person.

I don't disagree.  But again as I read thru this thread.  I'm not really seeing any common ground here, which lends to your last point. 

 

But I did make a simple suggestion which I think would really help.  And would be extremely easy to implement in the controls menu. 

A simple toggle to invert the current Right Mouse Button controls.  This way you could set it so the mouse always moves your crosshair, unless you hold the RMB down, and then the camera moves. 

[AlanC9]

The fact remains, that they did sell it on PC, and PC main control component are m+kb.. They stated the controls would be that of previous games, and delivered none of it.

Did they actually state that the controls would be the same as previous games? I don't recall that, but since I'm largely indifferent to control schemes I wouldn't have paid much attention.

[Bizantura]

Oh dear, I am green of envy of your coffee mug!!

[In Exile]

Probably. I'll bet that other decisions were influenced by looking at other PC games. I can see how they wouldn't see noncombat click-to-move, click-to-loot, and toggleable loot highlights as essential features when millions of Skyrim players get by just fine without those features. Unmodded Skyrim-PC gets well-deserved grief, but not for those things.

Not to mention some of these features were apparently in DAO but I didn't even know they existed - like the mouse thing - or seem so confusingly trivial that it's hard to wrap my head around the issue (e.g. holding a mouse button to rotate the camera).

[Jeffry]

Not to mention some of these features were apparently in DAO but I didn't even know they existed - like the mouse thing - or seem so confusingly trivial that it's hard to wrap my head around the issue (e.g. holding a mouse button to rotate the camera).

 

Ofc they were in DAO and DA2, otherwise many people wouldn't be so upset. We are upset because we miss those features and at least I see their removal as absolutely pointless They weren't bothering anyone and nobody had to use them if he didn't want to. (Btw you can click to move / click to loot and hold both mouse buttons for running forward even in WoW).

[DragonAddict]

I've play so many PC games its beyond count and yes, that's a keyboard and gaming mouse.

 

 

I love the fact you can look completely around with the mouse and move with it.

 

 

Only games I've played that don't have this feature anymore are DA2 and DAI.......

 

 

Using keys to move and look around totally blows.

 

 

 

Skyrim, beautiful.

 

 

DAO Isometric view

[In Exile]

Ofc they were in DAO and DA2, otherwise many people wouldn't be so upset. We are upset because we miss those features and at least I see their removal as absolutely pointless They weren't bothering anyone and nobody had to use them if he didn't want to. (Btw you can click to move / click to loot and hold both mouse buttons for running forward even in WoW).

My point is that if *I* were designing a system to have all that I valued from DAO I wouldn't have included the mouse to move thing. Not because I wanted to spite users but because it wouldn't even occur to me that it was anything more than fluff.

People are too quick to assume maliciousness when it comes to some of these things.

[Jeffry]

My point is that if *I* were designing a system to have all that I valued from DAO I wouldn't have included the mouse to move thing. Not because I wanted to spite users but because it wouldn't even occur to me that it was anything more than fluff.

People are too quick to assume maliciousness when it comes to some of these things.

 

Well, this is very similar to the main problem with DAI - the difference between what the devs thought we'd like and what we'd actually like. Together with many other factors (like Skyrim selling more copies) this is why DAI is the way it is (steered towards open world locations, action gameplay, collecting things, platforming, etc).