199 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Huh, imagine that. You disregard both the 12.000+ replies in the 'PC community concerns' thread, plus the low metacritic score of 5.8 /10. How come you're not asking why the PS4 version scores higher and gets 7.8 on the same crappy site? Shouldn't it also score low? Or could it be that the PC version actually has problems the PS4 does not?
 
Here's a brain-teaser for your arse. You can ponder it while eating noodles: When Dragon Age Origins was released we did not have a beefy 'PC community concerns' thread regarding m/kb controls and UI, and neither did Origins score low on metacritic, instead it holds an 8.6 /10. Now why is that? 
 
You said it. Bioware knows how to make good PC controls and UI, now will we get it for Inquisition?

Only speaking for myself, but metacritic's results and reviews are invalid. While my own score for DAI is close to their Pro Review score, their totals are skewed, and anyone can post a review; not just users of the games. Same day reviews and scoring are opposites, and even a faie result is tainted because of this. Pass.

As for controls, while they could be better for more or less advanced systems, there seems to be little to be needed for basic ones in my experience.

[Reverend1313]

I am PC gamer and still don't grasp why PC gamers don't understand that controller is now a PC gaming device, just like keyboard/mouse.

 

When I play driving games I use a steering wheel, when I play sims I use a fly joystick, with some hardcore FPS I use mouse, controller is perfect for games where control of the movement is the key.

 

Use the best or more enjoyable control device for each situation, keyboard/mouse is not the only solution. I am playing Inquisition with my Xbox One controller and I am having a hell of a good time with it.

 

Its not a complex argument that most of us PC gamer's are making here. 

 

PCs default input method = KB/Mouse

Console default input method = controller

 

Develop accordingly...

 

And yes yes PC/Consoles have many different input methods like wheels & joysticks. But you don't see developers releasing Call of Duty on console with a default input method of a racing wheel....

[Reverend1313]

Only speaking for myself, but metacritic's results and reviews are invalid. While my own score for DAI is close to their Pro Review score, their totals are skewed, and anyone can post a review; not just users of the games. Same day reviews and scoring are opposites, and even a faie result is tainted because of this. Pass.

As for controls, while they could be better for more or less advanced systems, there seems to be little to be needed for basic ones in my experience.

 

Your logic and statistical analysis is kinda flawed. If you throw out all the stuff you are saying screws up the results...all those factors were still viable when metacric reviews for DAO and DA2 took place. So if you throw out those then the good reviews for every game would be invalid. Point of this is...while statistically inaccurate as Metacritic might be,  its accurate enough for someone to "paint a general picture". 

[Elhanan]

Your logic and statistical analysis is kinda flawed. If you throw out all the stuff you are saying screws up the results...all those factors were still viable when metacric reviews for DAO and DA2 took place. So if you throw out those then the good reviews for every game would be invalid. Point of this is...while statistically inaccurate as Metacritic might be,  its accurate enough for someone to "paint a general picture".

Not my work, but appears to be valid:

papercut_ninja, on 05 Jan 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

As has been pointed out, the haters who give the game a 0 and the fanboys who give it a 10 does not statistically cancel each other out. If you have 1000 haters who give the game a 0, and 1000 fanboys who give the game a 10 the average score is 5. If you add 1000 balanced reviews that score somewhere between 5 and 10 with an average of 7,5, that only brings the average up to 6 ((1000x0) + (1000x10) + (1000x7,5))/3000.

So the more polarized the userbase and discussion around the game is, the more the average scores will be drifting towards 5,0.

[Hexoduen]

Only speaking for myself, but metacritic's results and reviews are invalid. While my own score for DAI is close to their Pro Review score, their totals are skewed, and anyone can post a review; not just users of the games. Same day reviews and scoring are opposites, and even a faie result is tainted because of this. Pass.

As for controls, while they could be better for more or less advanced systems, there seems to be little to be needed for basic ones in my experience.

 

As I wrote I label metacritic a "crappy site ", and I personally think Inquisition deserves more than 5.8 /10.

 

But disregard the results I would not. Crappy as they may be, and tainted by trolls or whatever, is still shows there is some sort of problem in the PC version of Inquisition that make some users rate the game extremely low. Since the PS4 version on the same site holds a 7.8 /10, apparently the PS4 users on this site are not as angry with the game as the PC users are.

 

As for the controls, I'm glad Bioware made a thread for PC community concerns, and I'm glad they have in fact improved PC controls since launch. I don't think we're there yet, there is still a lot to improve, but I'm sure the game will be better to play on PC in the coming months.

[Elhanan]

As I wrote I label metacritic a "crappy site ", and I personally think Inquisition deserves more than 5.8 /10.
 
But disregard the results I would not. Crappy as they may be, and tainted by trolls or whatever, is still shows there is some sort of problem in the PC version of Inquisition that make some users rate the game extremely low. Since the PS4 version on the same site holds a 7.8 /10, apparently the PS4 users on this site are not as angry with the game as the PC users are.
 
As for the controls, I'm glad Bioware made a thread for PC community concerns, and I'm glad they have in fact improved PC controls since launch. I don't think we're there yet, there is still a lot to improve, but I'm sure the game will be better to play on PC in the coming months.

Same kind of things can be reflected on legitimate sites, and one does not to work as hard to separate the weeds. For myself, metacritic is a major example why one has to mistrust the Internet.

[Reymoose]

Same kind of things can be reflected on legitimate sites, and one does not to work as hard to separate the weeds. For myself, metacritic is a major example why one has to mistrust the Internet.

 

I have to call out your hypocrisy here. You're making this statement, yet in countless posts you state the GOTY and scores DA:I has gotten, with no evidence as to the validity of said awards or reviews. Metacritic is absolute nonsense, I agree, and needs to go away, but I generally tend to *not* overlook the contrast between user and website reviews, because if you actually read both, you tend to be more informed than reading one or the other.

 

As for the controls, to keep on topic, LMB to attack is terrible for an RPG, because it's an FPS control scheme, and it's like that for a reason. Hint: It has to do with movement and 3rd person.

[otis0310]

To be honest if one takes into consideration the sloppy writng and the disjointed story and combines that with the crazy desgin decisions like the action paced combat and wide open areas.   Now you add on top of that the combination of the horrible bugs and generally bad AI and top it off with the horrible controls. . .

 

I'd say giving the game 5.8/10 is being extremely generous.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I recently tried KBM Action Mode in actual combat (not just sniping at range) for the first time, and I couldn't even manage to make Blackwall face the right direction. So I can see why people find it frustrating.

Luckily, I have no plans to use Action Mode in this way ever again.

What I don't understand why anyone would have expected adequate action combat.

[Elhanan]

To be honest if one takes into consideration the sloppy writng and the disjointed story and combines that with the crazy desgin decisions like the action paced combat and wide open areas.   Now you add on top of that the combination of the horrible bugs and generally bad AI and top it off with the horrible controls. . .
 
I'd say giving the game 5.8/10 is being extremely generous.

My opinion is different; enjoy the story and design, prefer Tactical mode, love the areas, experience few glitches and have the AI fairly under control, as well as the KB&M themselves. Easily give it 4/5 or 85/100. To be honest, that is....

[Reverend1313]

They still haven't fixed the zoom level in tac cam correct? I know you can install cheatengine as a work around but a bubblegum and duct tape /sledge hammer way of fixing the game. I'd be happy to use Tac Cam if I could easily see whats going on but when I had the game (before I got my money back) it wasn't what I considered usable.

 

Note "my opinion".

[Hexoduen]

I recently tried KBM Action Mode in actual combat (not just sniping at range) for the first time, and I couldn't even manage to make Blackwall face the right direction. So I can see why people find it frustrating.

Luckily, I have no plans to use Action Mode in this way ever again.

What I don't understand why anyone would have expected adequate action combat.

 

To partly quote user Ansa regarding the removal of auto-attack in the action cam:

 

"I understand that you wanted console players to mash something on their joystick (pun intended), but please, for the love of what is holy, give us an OPTION to turn it on or off ... So those of us with no joystick can, you know, focus on TACTICAL aspect of battle instead of having to mash the auto-attack button. Please.

 

- I cannot click to walk to an enemy?

Basically, with the absense of auto-attacks and click-to-move, playing a melee character turns out to be.. not fun at all.

You have to manually approach every enemy with movement keys and make sure you face it properly... Basically, this is resulting in half the time your warrior or rogue hitting empty air."

 

I primarily play mage, but even so I hate how we lost auto-attack and click-to-move in the action cam. From this third-person view we're left with only one control scheme; that of the button-mashing controller

[Sylvius the Mad]

To partly quote user Ansa regarding the removal of auto-attack in the action cam:

"I understand that you wanted console players to mash something on their joystick (pun intended), but please, for the love of what is holy, give us an OPTION to turn it on or off ... So those of us with no joystick can, you know, focus on TACTICAL aspect of battle instead of having to mash the auto-attack button. Please.

- I cannot click to walk to an enemy?
Basically, with the absense of auto-attacks and click-to-move, playing a melee character turns out to be.. not fun at all.
You have to manually approach every enemy with movement keys and make sure you face it properly... Basically, this is resulting in half the time your warrior or rogue hitting empty air."

I primarily play mage, but even so I hate how we lost auto-attack and click-to-move in the action cam. From this third-person view we're left with only one control scheme; that of the button-mashing controller

BioWare mighy argue that if you want to focus on the "tactical aspect" of combat, you should perhaps be using the tactical camera.

While I'll concede that the action camera looks terrible (I really hadn't tried it before), but I really like the WASD camera controls for the Tac Cam, so I've been playing a game with auto-attack and click-to-move all along.

As I approach combat, I pause the game and enter Tac Cam. Then I find somewhere useful to put the camera so that it can see the whole battlefield and I start giving orders.

The only thing I think is missing is auto-move to loot and interact.

My advice is simply never to use Action Mode except when exploring.

[DragonKingReborn]

BioWare mighy argue that if you want to focus on the "tactical aspect" of combat, you should perhaps be using the tactical camera.

While I'll concede that the action camera looks terrible (I really hadn't tried it before), but I really like the WASD camera controls for the Tac Cam, so I've been playing a game with auto-attack and click-to-move all along.

As I approach combat, I pause the game and enter Tac Cam. Then I find somewhere useful to put the camera so that it can see the whole battlefield and I start giving orders.

The only thing I think is missing is auto-move to loot and interact.

My advice is simply never to use Action Mode except when exploring.

 

That's definitely how I do it.  If people like the action cam combat, good for them.  I can't stand it.  I was actually not enjoying the game at all in my first playthrough until I decided tac cam only for combat, no exceptions.  Once I did that, my enjoyment of combat increased immeasurably.

[DaemionMoadrin]

BioWare mighy argue that if you want to focus on the "tactical aspect" of combat, you should perhaps be using the tactical camera.

While I'll concede that the action camera looks terrible (I really hadn't tried it before), but I really like the WASD camera controls for the Tac Cam, so I've been playing a game with auto-attack and click-to-move all along.

As I approach combat, I pause the game and enter Tac Cam. Then I find somewhere useful to put the camera so that it can see the whole battlefield and I start giving orders.

The only thing I think is missing is auto-move to loot and interact.

My advice is simply never to use Action Mode except when exploring.

 

I did it exactly the other way around. Since the Tac Cam frustrated me to no end, I stayed in action cam for the entire game. It's not like there's anything tactical about the combat in the first place. I basically only controlled my Inquisitor and let my party do whatever they wanted. It worked out nicely. I treated this game as the action adventure it is and ignored its attempt to appear tactical.

[AlanC9]

I did it exactly the other way around. Since the Tac Cam frustrated me to no end, I stayed in action cam for the entire game. It's not like there's anything tactical about the combat in the first place. I basically only controlled my Inquisitor and let my party do whatever they wanted. It worked out nicely. I treated this game as the action adventure it is and ignored its attempt to appear tactical.

That's how I played most of DAO, actually.

[DaemionMoadrin]

That's how I played most of DAO, actually.

 

DA:O's combat system doesn't change once you zoom out into Tac Cam. It's the same, you only get a better overview. I didn't find it necessary except for boss fights, since my companions were reliable thanks to working tactics and I only rarely had to intervene personally.

[In Exile]

To partly quote user Ansa regarding the removal of auto-attack in the action cam:

 

"I understand that you wanted console players to mash something on their joystick (pun intended), but please, for the love of what is holy, give us an OPTION to turn it on or off ... So those of us with no joystick can, you know, focus on TACTICAL aspect of battle instead of having to mash the auto-attack button. Please.

 

- I cannot click to walk to an enemy?

Basically, with the absense of auto-attacks and click-to-move, playing a melee character turns out to be.. not fun at all.

You have to manually approach every enemy with movement keys and make sure you face it properly... Basically, this is resulting in half the time your warrior or rogue hitting empty air."

 

I primarily play mage, but even so I hate how we lost auto-attack and click-to-move in the action cam. From this third-person view we're left with only one control scheme; that of the button-mashing controller

 

We didn't lose click-to-move as much as the AI simply cannot handle it. Try click-to-move in tactical camera and you'll see the AI lose it over a pebble. While they could find a toggle for auto-attack in action cam (at least in theory that would have to be the implementation, like the walk toggle) there's no way to do click to move. 

[In Exile]

Thanks for the advice. I still find it awkward and a struggle for a warrior and rogue, it's a major improvement. With that being said, the tactical camera zooms out really far in some places and in others, it's not zoomed far enough to even see the enemies. 

 

The tactical camera isn't meant to be used top-down, because among other things this view is pretty useless. The best zoom - which admittedly it struggles with - is the DA:O "just before isometric" zoom, where it's a really far up 3/4 tilt camera. 

[Jeffry]

We didn't lose click-to-move as much as the AI simply cannot handle it. Try click-to-move in tactical camera and you'll see the AI lose it over a pebble. While they could find a toggle for auto-attack in action cam (at least in theory that would have to be the implementation, like the walk toggle) there's no way to do click to move. 

 

The game at least could have had click to interact for harvesting nodes, loot, talking to NPCs, etc. I wouldn't mind if my character took a small detour on the way to pick up an elfroot 2 meters away from me as long as I don't have to do it manually with that stupid running animation or constantly toggling between running and walking every single bloody time I want to loot the battlefield.

[In Exile]

The game at least could have had click to interact for harvesting nodes, loot, talking to NPCs, etc. I wouldn't mind if my character took a small detour on the way to pick up an elfroot 3 feet away from me as long as I don't have to do it manually every single blood time with that stupid running animation or constantly toggle between run and walk every time I want to loot the battlefield.

Fair enough. I mean now after dealing with the UI the aggravation seems preferable. I'm not sure we'd have said that on release.