72 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadohz]

OP you should be kicked just for spamming shouts.

 

It's pretty simple. It's a noob slash pug strategy that's effective. Like any strategy, it has it's pros and cons. It works well on all difficulties (yes even Rountine for brand new players). It doesn't require a high-level of communication to pull off. To answer your specific question, it's because they are being lazy.

[VilniusNastavnik]

There are actually various spots where you can camp and funnel them through. The entry room just has the healing font so you can do a quick health boost if someone is about to drop

[The Allslayer]

The advantage, and maybe it just comes down to this, is a break in the monotony.  It is a lot more fun to run around, use terrain to your advantage, and just enjoy the experience rather than just keeping firewall up at the door or aiming long-shot at the clump of garbage try to get past the dwarf.

 

I would like to point out that for the Red Templars, parties that don't know to kill the horrors will often still wipe even using the door as a choke point.  Having a couple players out there killing them before the whole map is turned to horror and knights is a good thing.

 

I see it the complete opposite.You're continuing the monotony, you just spent the entire match running from one spawn to another remember? I'm letting them come to me for a change. It's more fun having a giant scrap with multiple enemies than fighting one or two at a time. It's great when the AI goes nuts and the entire zone charges at you too, its just a shame you still have to run all the way through to get to the next zone.

[haxaw]

It's great when the AI goes nuts and the entire zone charges at you too, its just a shame you still have to run all the way through to get to the next zone.

 

So what you're telling me is you want a class with both Counterstrike and Fade Step, so you can pull the map and then speed to the end?

 

I'm in.

[TMB903]

It really shouldn't be all that difficult to comprehend. Choke points + AOE spells make the match much much easier and you don't have 494837272 archers pew pewing away on you. In any form of combat flanking greatly increases your chance of victory and by locking down the entry door we greatly increase our odds while the AI loses it's numbers advantage.

[X Equestris]

Primarily because it protects you from ranged attack from multiple directions. Granted, it isn't a great strategy against the demon commander, since he can break your hold on the choke point fairly easily, but it does give me a decent shot of making it out alive.

[Kmaru]

Camping is the best way to deal with enemies, one entrance, so u know where they will come from. Running like mad here and there is not coop, it's more individualism, why then playing with others?

As an Arcane warrior i prefer camping at the entrance, cause the more ennemies the more powerfull, if i was running from here and there i'll use the protection shield in seconds, my strenght, the power in my attacks etc.

The keeper also can't resurect, comrads that are far from her,

The Hunter can't give strenght to the comrads that are also far from him etc etc

 

Anyway to me that is the best strategie ever. U will save more potions, u will be more powerful and deadly as a team, and people can give u a hand when crawling on the ground with serious wounds.

[phoenix fang55]

Basic military tactic, funnel your enemey into a chokepoint, chokepoints give a major advantage.

 

Honestly, I say it all depends on what char you are playing, I can give strategies that I use on certain maps and Chars.

 

Elementalist-use that room, only one point of access and there are plenty of times I can get up to 3 or even more firestorms going, plus fire mine, an antivian fire grenade, immolate and the upgraded winter's grasp, was doing a solo today so I could get gold medals more easily, and mind you it was only routine, but got a kill streak of 25

 

Legionare- The tank, lol, venetori and demons its definately better to use the room, just to funnel archers and wraiths to you. Red templars its actually a little better to kite, just easier to spread out some of the enemies, and RTC can get mean in tight quaters.

 

Assassin- I prefer my team to stay in the room and attract the enemies and I'll run around outside picking off as many adds as I can so they can focus on the commander. Aiming for Archers, horrors, knights and wraiths first.

 

Katari-Depends on the map, In the elven ruins, the one end map is that giant square, which is perfect for him, basically you can venture out, let your team deal with the commander as you run back and forth knocking stuff over. Otherwise, in the room, let enemies line up, bowl them over, panic them with war horn and then, if things work right, charge back into the room to rinse and repeat.

 

Hunter- AGain I like my allies to be in the room, I go plant the flag, let them draw the initial aggor, hunt down the commander and then steal/leaping shot as much as possible, if I do it right I can easily get them down to half health by the time they hit the room, if I really do it right I can outright solo the boss.

 

Necro-Room, lots of tightly packed enemies, please, yes, please some more.

 

Keeper- Doesn't matter, stick with teamates, barrier them, and static cage/chain lightning things as needed.

 

Reaver-Let someone draw in the boss, then rampage/rage burst them, basic idea is to just murder the boss as fast as possible.

 

Templar- My old build was built for holding that room, line in the sand, unbowed, shield wall, and wrath of heaven, if I did my job right, only the boss got in, got murdered, and then everything either got held up or stunned and didn't have a chance to touch my teamate, but the combo nuke is also great at the door.

 

Alchemist-still fiddling with this char, but with a skittle popping build its easy for them to make that single entry point hell to get through.

 

AW- Tightly packed enemies are better, so the room in general is nice for them.

 

Archer- in the room I've gotten a kill streak of ten off a single longshot.....

 

In general, yes, I support the room, its an easy strat that takes little communication to pull off, and serves a lot of the classes quite well, Though red templars make me nervous in the room, and certain rooms are just horrid while others make it a cake walk. And the easiest run I ever had was on perilous with a keeper, all we did was kite around the map, took longer but no one went down and we just whittled away the enemy till the boss was left standing and then we stood still and destroyed it.

[QuickerBladeEHGH]

I never thought of splitting the teams up and having them go East and West. Couldn't teams run into potential problems that way too? What if a Demon Commander downs someone, and the downed person's partner is either too busy or getting hammered from demon slashing and fade ghosts? That would mean the other side has to go all of the way over to revive someone.

 

The East-West method does change things up but I don't see how it's automatically better than staying inside. Camping isn't a guarantee of safety, and on one map the area is painfully cramped and dangerous, but it seems to work on a majority of matches. Even moreso for PUG and no mics, which is often the case.

[holdenagincourt]

It's a fine strategy as the others have already explained, and eliminates a lot of communication and coordination costs. And unless something went very wrong in zone 4 you can easy access font if people start taking too many hints.

 

The more pressing question at this point is why people feel the need to remake this thread every week. The incessant concern trolling about zone 5 camping is becoming a bit played out and I don't think the DAMP meta has so fundamentally changed in the last few days that the previous threads are no longer germane.

[Hadred]

From my experience, every time a group stays out of the room in Routine or Threatening difficulty the ranged mobs are too spread out, people forget to kill them and they start picking group members off one by one.  I'm better geared now, so I will try to devote myself to archer-killing duty in those instances.  

 

The Red Templars especially irritate me as they have some strong ranged enemies.  It's a risk, but I still prefer to use the room for Red Templars and hope whoever has aggro on the boss keeps him in the back of the room.  Demon Commander I'll try to take out of the room and kite near it if I have aggro, that way the rest of the group can take potshots on it(And hopefully keep me clear of other mobs while I kite.)

 

[Pee Jae]

My favorite character is the Necromancer. Fade Cloak in a confined space surrounded by enemies? Yes, plz. I can tank DC or RTC. Venatori notsomuch because she teleports all over the damned place.

 

It's simple, really. Stay in the room and take ranged fire from one direction. Leave the room and take ranged fire from ALL directions.

[Diego Vargas]

Let's be serious here, the real issue here is most people who rush out of the room on the harder difficulty levels just dont get that they just cant rush2win.  Strangely the demographic I have seen that seem to be infected with this notion that they can go solo all of zone 5 are usually melee classes (of which we almost always see the 2h hander / legionaire and templars).

 

What people need to realize is zone 5 is SPECIFICALLY designed to crush that behavior and kill you.  Zone 5 is meant to let classes like keeper and elementalist shine by controlling the choke point with blizzards/static cages and firestorms.  It is also meant to let you throw pitch grenades and antivan fires.

 

Thats just how this level flows, the only exception i have ever seen to this rule is the assassin who is going to guerrilla adds, but that means they are 1) stacked 2) built to immediately go into stealth after a kill.  

[VilniusNastavnik]

Let's be serious here, the real issue here is most people who rush out of the room on the harder difficulty levels just dont get that they just cant rush2win.  Strangely the demographic I have seen that seem to be infected with this notion that they can go solo all of zone 5 are usually melee classes (of which we almost always see the 2h hander / legionaire and templars).

 

What people need to realize is zone 5 is SPECIFICALLY designed to crush that behavior and kill you.  Zone 5 is meant to let classes like keeper and elementalist shine by controlling the choke point with blizzards/static cages and firestorms.  It is also meant to let you throw pitch grenades and antivan fires.

 

Thats just how this level flows, the only exception i have ever seen to this rule is the assassin who is going to guerrilla adds, but that means they are 1) stacked 2) built to immediately go into stealth after a kill.  

The lego built correctly can solo threatening and not need to be in the starting room to funnel. There is one room in Orlesian chateau where, versing reds, you can trap the commander and have him spin on the spot to the point where you can just swing at him.. there are also barricades to stand behind and bring them to you at this same spot.

[russ4ua16]

What I like is that most groups don't even use the choke point right. Standing in the door is safer than running out in the open but breaking line of sight is twice as effective as that. Back around the corner. Force those ranged mobs to get in melee reach. Take ranged damage out of the equation.

[Sidney]

I don't see the camp work -- I'm surprise to see so many claimining it does work.

The theory might be right, the practice I've seen is you can't hold the choke point. Whatever is trying to hold it - AW or Tank gets overwhelmed and since you really don't have a ZOC things still run around you anyways. If you are trying to hold it with ranged characters well there is no real cover - if you can see them they can see you save a few AOE things that can sorta wrap around corners. That means theRe is no real benefit as all the archers on their side can shoot at you while you shoot at them. The choke also always fails under the boss at the very least and once that doorway falls the players are now bottled in and getting torn apart trapped in their own trap. It feels about as useful a strategy as camping the LZ in Reactor was.

Maybe it is the lack of coordination among PUGs I always run with or the lack of equipment that allows them to mow things in the choke point down fast enough but staying mobile seems to offer the best rewards. If you are mobile it really feels like only the DC is a problem with his pop outta nowhere attack.

[haxaw]

I don't see the camp work -- I'm surprise to see so many claimining it does work.

[...]

Maybe it is the lack of coordination among PUGs I always run with or the lack of equipment that allows them to mow things in the choke point down fast enough but staying mobile seems to offer the best rewards. If you are mobile it really feels like only the DC is a problem with his pop outta nowhere attack.

 

I honestly haven't had your experience. Camping is the safest way to PuG and requires the least coordination among various tactics.

[russ4ua16]

Sounds like a lack of dps

[Setz]

Camping is the safe route. It can have it's fallbacks if the burst classes aren't taking out the gathering ranged masses, but mostly it's safe. The easiest way to do it with a team would be to run circles around the map killing mobs in their path. If the team is well coordinated and can stick together, you end up fighting less mobs at a time, and can generally stay away from the hard hitting bosses. But all it takes is one person to end up separated and on their own and your whole group would go down. Obviously this doesn't apply to routine.

[SofaJockey]

What I like is that most groups don't even use the choke point right. Standing in the door is safer than running out in the open but breaking line of sight is twice as effective as that. Back around the corner. Force those ranged mobs to get in melee reach. Take ranged damage out of the equation.

 

This.

 

Standing in the doorway getting shot is slightly better that standing in the open getting shot.

But why not take position out of sight, with a flanker on the other side, so that when they come trotting in to find you, you can clobber them without being seen.

 

Ranged damage can absolutely be minimised by reducing line of sight and not being seen.

 

 

This does not mean there are not situational exceptions for some rooms and classes.

Sometimes a rolling fallback works well, again using doorways and pillars as line of sight cover.

[Laforgus]

Points:

 

Easy to control the Crowd

Best Choke Point in any Area 5

Best protection for Chars with weak Def

If any Teammate dies is easier to crawl in than looking for him around outside.

Only enemy Boss gets in the rest dies outside

Keeper can Watch everyone

 

Cool Point:

Firewall Entrance and FireStorm

Two legionaries Blocking the Entrance

Long Shot Rulez

 

The Bad:

ZOMG the Demon Commander!

 

 

In Resume:

 

It doesn't matter if you are a new to the game or a Veteran, we are not here to enjoy the view, so is reasonable to pick this strategy if you just want to get things done, fast and with less possible troubles.

 

If you are with a group of friend and want a nice challenge, change of pace or just a lot of freaking time step outside.

[Sidney]

I honestly haven't had your experience. Camping is the safest way to PuG and requires the least coordination among various tactics.

Maybe I am running with poorly equipped people way too often. Camping usually goes about like this: first few mobs get plastered. the boss OTOH cannot be stopped in the Chokepoint. Either all the fire goes to him and the mobs flow in or people keep at the mobs and the boss starts to tear away at the players which causes fire on the choke point to slack and the mobs get in. Now, just like in any fortification scenario once your defenses are breached your protection is now your trap. Now you've got mobs + boss flooding into your former redoubt and there is nowhere to go, missile units have clear fields of fire on you, it is almost impossible to flee the room. Death ensues quickly because anyone downed has to be revived under enormous duress and one down quickly becomes 2 down. That isn't to say I haven't seen it work but when it works it is typically someone who has a really high end weapon that owns the field (but then again with good enough equipment you can use any strategy I think) but for the more typical party it only works vs the VC but, again, almost anything works vs the VC.

[haxaw]

Maybe I am running with poorly equipped people way too often. Camping usually goes about like this: [...]

 

I think it's more a matter of tactics than gear. Once the boss enters the room, the person he/she/it is chasing should kite and stay alive. The rest of the team should still focus on the trash stream. Otherwise, exactly as you described, you quickly get overwhelmed and pinned down. The only tactical change that should happen when the boss enters the room is everybody should be aware of what the boss is doing so as not to die as collateral. Aside from that, the name of the game is still taking out the trash.