64 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

First, I would like to say... FIRST!

 

Second, here's the theory in full, please let me know what you think, and add to this if you can:

 

Fade text

 

• WE ARE HERE
• WE HAVE WAITED
• WE HAVE SLEPT
• WE ARE SUNDERED
• WE ARE CRIPPLED
• WE ARE POLLUTED
• WE ENDURE
• WE WAIT
• WE HAVE FOUND THE DREAMS AGAIN
• WE WILL AWAKEN

It's pretty clear to me that this is referencing the old gods. Notice that it says they are sundered and crippled before mentioning their pollution, which to me suggests that they're in a weakened state from being put to sleep in the first place. My guess is that they mean they're separated from the taint, their god mojo. Even though polluted suggests not a normal state, it's not something we can really assume.



Anyway despite the truth of that, the next interesting big is that they're still enduring and waiting after all that, and that they've "Found the Dreams again," and that they will awaken. Well, they're already polluted, referring to the archdemons who have woken up. That suggests and hints to me that one, they aren't talking about the dreams of those they control or who they worship, but the fade. And two, they're not fully "woken" when tainted and this might not be what they're talking about. It gives importance to all of them needing to be awaken. We. Which is interesting for how divided old gods supposedly were.



What I think this means is that Solas, sealed them away because even in their slumber, they couldn't die, and he needed their bodies to act as pillars to hold the world away from the fade. Based on this text:

__http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Old_Elven_Writing__


The workers mentioned in the text, running around soulless, that is what points to Darkspawn and what suggests the old gods. The spheres merging at the end suggests the old god's deaths may be necessary as a step for our world to converge with the fade.

I think that if the old gods are "killed", possibly even if not tainted first, then their souls we thought destroyed will still find a way to reassemble themselves in the fade.



There is a little more helping this idea that the old gods aren't necessarily a separate entity, or weren't all the time:



__http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Ancient_Elven_Writing__

This suggests a few possible things. The first to me is that it's possible that Ghilan'nain was actually one allied with the old gods, the forgotten ones even though we still know her name and legend. It would explain why Mythal still didn't show him favor in the end, and the god of beauty is an actual old god, the last one we killed. But what also makes me believe that is the description at the bottom:

For one moment there is an image of a shifting, shadowy mass with blazing eyes, whose form may be one or many. Then it fades.

See where I'm going with this? The taint acts as a sort of hive mind to all infected. If the old gods all have the taint as their old god mojo, what happens when multiple archdemons are around? I think this suggests that the old gods are indeed a part of something greater and bigger, and killing them is just helping them return to that state at full power, while Morrigan's ritual, likely an elven ritual, serves to keep their souls here.

And remember, that elves helped to develop the Warden joining ritual with information left over from Arlathan in the first blight. So that adds to this idea in general really, that it's all tied with elves, as always, lol.

And even if Ghilan'nain isn't an old god, that man was obviously tricked, much like Tevinter was into having the nerve to "fly high amongst the gods." Very old goddy indeed.

One way or another, Solas' reaction suggests the grey wardens are ****** up somehow. It could just be the pillar explanation, but what he said also to Blackwall about if he was sure killing them would stop the blights, that to me is a good supporting conversation to this as well.

And whether or not people think this is likely, one should consider this pic:

__http://40.media.tumblr.com/0f8b4452c43a73b40d0f2995c64e55d9/tumblr_nghqvd3ukx1ts23yuo1_1280.jpg__

Notice that the song ceased being something in their heads, but an independent and literally audible sound, so loud that it shook the earth around them. If true, then it suggests the old gods do wish to be tainted. Because they are confirmed to actively be calling out.

That concludes the theory. The Grey Wardens are fools as always, and assume that the old god's souls are "cancelled out". But they never stopped to ask themselves... why the hell would that be the case, rather than both souls simply merging and going to the fade?

[Avejajed]

Why do I feel like the Solas thread will dominate this forum.

[Ajna]

SECOND! Ohhh shiny...

 

Edit: *shakes fist at Ave*

[Monica21]

First, I would like to say... FIRST!

 

Second, here's the theory in full, please let me know what you think, and add to this if you can:

 

 

I'm super excited by this forum and yay for you being firsties, but I have to wait to get home to read this with my brain actually working. Poo. But yay for a Lore forum!!!

[Jerkules17]

I originally thought (before DA:I)that the Dread wolf was the maker,and the Forgotten gods were the Tevinter gods. Boy was I wrong.  

[TanithAeyrs]

Interesting theory with some good codex entries to back it up. The only part that feels a bit shaky to me is that the Old Gods are intentionally calling out. Could their song instead be the last remnant of the ancient song that is referenced multiple times (I know Cole does in at least one dialog and there are several codex entries that I am too lazy to look up right now).

[rapscallioness]

Nice post, OP. It's alot to unpack, but I do have a question. Didn't Solas actually like the idea of the Fade Spirits and mortals being able to freely traverse back and forth? As opposed to wanting to block the Fade off from the world? (We got into a fight abt it actually.) Much like the image of the overlapping spheres with flowers inside.

 

And I have a feeling the witless, soulless workers may actually be their--whoever wrote this- view of mortals. Not necessarily darkspawn. Pillars of the Earth may be the Eleven gods---holding up "earth", or the domain of the mortals. And the mortals are seen as their workers-their slaves. much like the ancient elves were slaves, and did not know it, to the supposedly good gods.

[rapscallioness]

*my computer does not seem to like DA wikia. Ever.

 

The texts you sourced, were these from the Arbor Wilds? Did it mention who was supposed to be speaking?

[rapscallioness]

at any rate, i do remember that yavana in one of those comics--iirc-- also alluded to the idea that the death of all the dragons would bring doom.

 

so, may be something there.

 

edit: ah, yes. the blood of the dragons is the blood of the world. and the silent grove was a haven for them, lest mankind hunt them to extinction.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Yavana

 

editedit: but is she talking literally abt dragons? or the old gods that take on the form of dragons? because there is old gods and there is archdemon which are not necessarily the same thing. the archdemon is corrupted by the taint carried by the darkspawn which makes them, too, mindless killing machines.

 

so, solas and mythal obviously want to preserve the old gods--pre-tainted old gods, that is. but why? because they are pillars of the earth and keep the fade separated from the world? yet, solas seems to want that overlap.

 

and then solas is quick to say that there is nothing in the lore that points to a connection between the old gods--presumbly the ones tevinter worshipped, and the elven.

 

idk, i'm getting mixed signals here. lol!

[Koneko Koji]

Interesting thoughts, there's definately a connection between the Old Gods and the Darkspawn that goes beyond the taint of the Blight - because we're repeatedly told that the Old Gods only become Arch Demons when they are tainted; but their calling affects the Darkspawn and makes them seek them out - this has to be some connection beyond their powers as divinities, because otherwise surely they would call to sympathetic Tevintans like they did the original Magisters.

[Mims]

Why do I feel like the Solas thread will dominate this forum.

 

My first thought: 'Hey, they gave us an entire forum!' 

 

 

 

For one moment there is an image of a shifting, shadowy mass with blazing eyes, whose form may be one or many. Then it fades.

See where I'm going with this? The taint acts as a sort of hive mind to all infected. If the old gods all have the taint as their old god mojo, what happens when multiple archdemons are around? I think this suggests that the old gods are indeed a part of something greater and bigger, and killing them is just helping them return to that state at full power, while Morrigan's ritual, likely an elven ritual, serves to keep their souls here.

And remember, that elves helped to develop the Warden joining ritual with information left over from Arlathan in the first blight. So that adds to this idea in general really, that it's all tied with elves, as always, lol.
 

 

This is a very interesting take on the old gods/life of the world connection. I definitely think that killing the old gods is a bad idea.

 

The whole idea of the blight and the taint being something like a corruptive 'song' immediately begs the question: who is the one singing? The old gods can be corrupted. There's very good reason to believe that the elven gods were corrupted and driven mad. What is the end game? 

 

It is possible that it is a completely mindless, freak occurrence. Something like a disease that has infected Thedas. 

 

It could be that it is the elven gods themselves driving the song, and the 'song' is more of a side effect of this natural occurrence attaching itself to an extremely powerful magical entity. 

 

Or it could be, like you say, something created with a definite purpose. With something or someone compelling the hivemind. The Forgotton Ones do seem like a good bet, since they are the direct rivals of the pantheon at the time the blight may have first appeared. But on the other hand we don't know a lot about them. 

 

I don't have an answer, but it is something I wonder about. 

[rapscallioness]

Interesting thoughts, there's definately a connection between the Old Gods and the Darkspawn that goes beyond the taint of the Blight - because we're repeatedly told that the Old Gods only become Arch Demons when they are tainted; but their calling affects the Darkspawn and makes them seek them out - this has to be some connection beyond their powers as divinities, because otherwise surely they would call to sympathetic Tevintans like they did the original Magisters.

 

 

hmm, yes. and their calling only affects those that are tainted. so, you have to wonder why? what is the connection between this song and the taint?

 

then ofc, red lyrium comes into the picture with a song that can e heard by even the untainted. and red lyrium is supposed to be blighted lyrium.

[Colonelkillabee]

Lots of questions, lol. I'll get to them all soon more or less, but one I can answer now (on my phone) is the codex entries come from the arbor wilds, yes an no it doesn't say who's saying it.

 

The other one I can answer on the fly is that I believe Solas wishes the world could go back to the way it was, fade and thedas as one, but knows that the world isn't yet ready for it. Like an abomination, I think the reaction would or could be rather catastrophic unless some preparations are made. Pure speculation of course. But that's my guess.

 

Remember he says when arguing with him that "Short of bringing the fade back to thedas so that I can change reality at will, I cannot help them," heavy paraphrasing. Which to me shows that he certainly doesn't plan on doing that, at least not yet.

[MoonDrummer]

Right... so are the old gods and the forgotten ones the same people?

[xJLxKing]

I always found it weird that the Old Gods called out to the Darkspawn. Unfortunately, you theory sounds good only because we have very little facts to go by. With the so few facts that we do have, it's very easy to make any kind of theory. 

 

The one thing I want to mention is that the game tends to ask specific questions to give specific hints to where they are heading.  They never said, omg what's gonna happen after all the Old Gods are dead. They just imply what will happen with the Darkspawn, which I think is a better question

 

 

And once again, we don't really have much to go on to say that the Old Gods and the Elven Gods are the same. Yes, some theories really sound nice but I think there is more to it.  

 

The quote you posted doesn't make sense too much to the Old Gods. Think about the phrase 

• WE HAVE WAITED
• WE HAVE FOUND THE DREAMS AGAIN

​Doesn't it make sense that it talks about the Darkspawn?

[rapscallioness]

Lots of questions, lol. I'll get to them all soon more or less, but one I can answer now (on my phone) is the codex entries come from the arbor wilds, yes an no it doesn't say who's saying it.

 

The other one I can answer on the fly is that I believe Solas wishes the world could go back to the way it was, fade and thedas as one, but knows that the world isn't yet ready for it. Like an abomination, I think the reaction would or could be rather catastrophic unless some preparations are made. Pure speculation of course. But that's my guess.

 

Remember he says when arguing with him that "Short of bringing the fade back to thedas so that I can change reality at will, I cannot help them," heavy paraphrasing. Which to me shows that he certainly doesn't plan on doing that, at least not yet.

 

 

Huh. Back before the veil and separation. That was probably also the time when the elves were immortal and magic was effortless. because then there was no separation. no veil.

 

Like sandal said..the sky ripping open; all the magic back; ppl being the way they were before, etc. so, maybe it was not just the proximity to humans that caused the elves to become mortal, but rather the veil.

[Koneko Koji]

I always found it weird that the Old Gods called out to the Darkspawn. Unfortunately, you theory sounds good only because we have very little facts to go by. With the so few facts that we do have, it's very easy to make any kind of theory. 

 

The one thing I want to mention is that the game tends to ask specific questions to give specific hints to where they are heading.  They never said, omg what's gonna happen after all the Old Gods are dead. They just imply what will happen with the Darkspawn, which I think is a better question

 

 

And once again, we don't really have much to go on to say that the Old Gods and the Elven Gods are the same. Yes, some theories really sound nice but I think there is more to it.  

 

The quote you posted doesn't make sense too much to the Old Gods. Think about the phrase 

• WE HAVE WAITED
• WE HAVE FOUND THE DREAMS AGAIN

​Doesn't it make sense that it talks about the Darkspawn?

 

Do you think this is why darkspawn like the Architect and Mother have started cropping up?

[rapscallioness]

Right... so are the old gods and the forgotten ones the same people?

 

and this succinctly expresses my question. i think they may be, but i just don't know yet.

[Colonelkillabee]

Huh. Back before the veil and separation. That was probably also the time when the elves were immortal and magic was effortless. because then there was no separation. no veil.

Like sandal said..the sky ripping open; all the magic back; ppl being the way they were before, etc. so, maybe it was not just the proximity to humans that caused the elves to become mortal, but rather the veil.

I agree, others have said this before too, and that makes a lot more sense.

[Colonelkillabee]

and this succinctly expresses my question. i think they may be, but i just don't know yet.

A lot of the astrariums heavily suggest they indeed are.

[Colonelkillabee]

As for if this is talking about dark spawn rather than the old gods, I'd say they're one and the same more or less, as the theory goes.

[rapscallioness]

the idea that the old gods and some faction of the elven pantheon are the same gets prickly.

 

solas is a bit too quick saying that bit abt nothing in the lore connects them.

 

yet, just from learning what i've learned today--i think Solas/Fen Harel could be Dirthamen god of secrets--resembling very much that mosaic Cory was standing on in the last battle. And Dirth could be....Dumat. different names same being.

 

that may be why he despises the idea of the wardens killing all the old--as yet untainted--gods still asleep.

 

may also be why Solas even chose Cory to give the orb to, Dumat's high priest.

 

god of secrets. god of silence. imagery with hands over mouth.

 

the tevinter magisters, it appears from Cory, were tricked into the golden city (if it ever was golden). unleashing the blights. there's always been the question of why would dumat do this?

 

if dumat was really an elven god, perhaps it was an effort, a magic, a curse, to rid the lands of the humans through the blight. But it backfire, which seems to happen. and engulfed the whole of the lands. after initially teaching the humans, the humans got out of control. wanted more and more, became more of a threat to the elven. so they needed to be wiped out.

 

if anything like that was true, and got out, it would be awful for the elves.

 

edit: yes, i know dumat was supposedly killed after he got away the first time. but they are tricksy.

 

 

**okay, my speculation is full to bursting right now.    gotta take a break. i wonder what BW will do with all this? hope it's something interesting whatever it turns out to be.

[xJLxKing]

Do you think this is why darkspawn like the Architect and Mother have started cropping up?

Well the mother was awakened by the Architect. The architect himself was confirmed to be a Magister like Cory

 

With that said, what the broodmother did say fits into the Codex. She kept on nagging about how she wanted to hear the song again.

[Jaspe84]

Didn't Solas or someone say in the game that Ancient Elves were immortals and greetings could last decades and casting spells could take even longer to cast, so maybe the "song" that Old Gods are singing is a spell being cast but it takes aeons to cast and Darkspawn are simply trying to prevent that from happening,

well not Darkspawn themselfs obviously since most of them are mindless "husks" but someone or something that is controlling them or maybe even created them.

Maybe its a sustained spell that keeps the veil in place as to separate fade from thedas and as we know Solas would like to see a world without a veil, eh....i don't know but atleastt it's something to ponder about.

[SmilesJA]

The question is why are the Old Gods, called "Old"? Did they rule at an age before documented time?