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[Arvaarad]

Let's talk about the uncharted lands north of Par Vollen, across the ocean.

The qunari are said to come from there. The humans may have come from there, much earlier, though the records are less clear (humans first appeared in the north, but it's never explicitly stated that they came south from another continent).

Bull's dialogue suggests that even the qunari don't remember why they left. "I don't know. We had to leave. The stories aren't clear." That also suggests that, despite having seafaring ships, the qunari do not trade to the north, nor have any contact with their continent of origin.

There's also been no peep about that continent from any Dreamers we've met, who might in theory be able to make contact through the Fade even if no ships travel there.

Most interestingly, David Gaider has hinted that the next World of Thedas book will have more info on these lands.

So what's going on up there? What forced the qunari (and maybe humans?) to leave? Do they even share the same Fade? Everything about these lands sounds... ominous.

What are your theories?

[rapscallioness]

Well, I have no sources to cite, but..hey:

 

lessee: the humans from what i recall, the original barbarian tribes fled from their origin place, too. they were apparently fleeing from some sky goddess. and yet there are the avvar and some cults that still worship the lady of the skies. whether or not they are the same..idk.

 

then there's the pyramid of par vollen text that has humans in that area that seemed advanced and were the first lands of thedas the qunari conquered. the images in their temples that seemed to e held in high regard were tall and horned beings. yet this was before the qunari showed up there.

 

there' some question abt qunari blood being different than what it should--and no i don't believe that's just a reference to the PC being vashoth. Along with the mosaic--ack, i forgot which one, ah, "the Sacrifice" it was called. it showed a particularly ugly looking tevinter (we assume tevinter)--which was odd and remarked upon. they were doing blood sacrifice. one of the victims looked like a qunari, but was later "airbrushed" out to hide that. why?

 

and qunari were called a mistake, not even a race.

 

It seems the qunari as we know them were run out by the kossith, and have evolved/developed quite differently.

 

Maye there is storyline there for the future and that's why the writer's were being so anal at calling qunari kossith, etc. cuz they knew something we did not.

 

It's also interesting to note that the humans seemed to have brought the old gods with them, or for some reason, the first to be susceptible to their whispering. It was not until the humans showed up that the old gods showed up. and humans were the only ones they whispered to. from that came the human empires.

[rapscallioness]

*can't find that fleeing from a sky goddess reference anywhere.

 

but i found it interesting that the barbarians hold the great bear in high esteem--as a guardian of wisdom and knowledge. and from another lore thread by Colkillabee, i learned about the elven god Dirth...that was the keeper of secrets. he, too, held the bear in high regard because it was the only one that did not sell out its secrets that Dirth had given them.

 

Tbh, i'm beginning to think think there is a northern connection between the humans; kossith; dragons and quanari. like maybe the kossith were/are? actually humans, and in some effort to become more "divine" , they engaged in some dodgy dark magic to couple the blood of humans and dragons to the Nth degree. And gave us qunari.

[Ashagar]

Of the ancient humans we seem to have two major groups of ancient human tribes that moved into the areas of thadas known in-game where the elves and dwarves had their empires. 

 

The first were the Neromenians who came from the north, perhaps the continent across the sea. They seemed to be divided into two groups a northern branch that settled in what's now the Tevinter Imperium and worshiped the maker and later the old gods as well and another southern group that settled in whats now Orlais, Navarra and the free marches which had Animist beliefs. 

 

The second group is the Alamarri who apparently came not from the north but the distant west. These were the ancestors of the Avvar, Chassind and Fereldens and worshiped a sky mother, a earth father and various other deities.

[Arvaarad]

*can't find that fleeing from a sky goddess reference anywhere.

I think that's one of the stories Solas tells if you ask "tell me about a spirit you encountered"? I vaguely remember him talking about the human tribes uniting because a lonely spirit chased away her prey.

[Kaibe]

Thedas: where all the bad **** happens.

I'd imagine the north is something along the lines of
Not Thedas: where slightly less terrible **** happens.

But what if worse things are happening there, and that's why we don't know?

[Avejajed]

I think Halla goddess Gillly went and made all kinds of crazy fucked up hybrids and the Qunari are one of those attempts at playing frankenstein.

Pure speculation, of course.

[Arvaarad]

But what if worse things are happening there, and that's why we don't know?

After all, the qunari did leave it in favor of Thedas. How bad must it be, that the southern continent seemed like a nice, pleasant place to live?

[SomberXIII]

Jade Empire!  lol

[Caddius]

I think that's one of the stories Solas tells if you ask "tell me about a spirit you encountered"? I vaguely remember him talking about the human tribes uniting because a lonely spirit chased away her prey.

Yeah. Specifically, it's the Alamarri, which at that point included the Avvar and Chasind as well. They were split off from the Neromenians group and fled to modern-day Ferelden. According to Solas, the 'shadow goddess' was some spirit that was lonely and chased off her prey. It's rather ambiguous. We don't particularly know why the Neromenian and those that followed migrated from Par Vollen to modern-day Tevinter and beyond. But we can assume it's the usual. Overpopulation, climate change, fleeing warfare or oppression, natural disasters, etcetera...

But I find Sten's banter with Loghain quite telling. To paraphrase,

"Tell me, what did the Qunari come to Thedas for?"

"You know the answer."

"*bemused* Do I?"

"Yes. Why did humans come here?"

"Humans have always been here."

"Have they? The elves tell another story."

"That happened so long ago, it can reasonably be said that humanity has been in Thedas forever."

"You have a strangely short view of eternity, then." 

While Iron Bull is probably more informed of the Qunari's past than Sten, being a member of the Ben-Hassrath, it's still quite interesting.

Then there's the 'Those Across the Seas' mission, and the apparent horned creatures in Par Vollen pyramids and the murals Gatsi looks at, all of which predate the Qunari invasion. Hopefully the next World of Thedas book will offer more than just a page or two of vague information. Hopefully they'll be a world map. 

Par Vollen appears to be an island, though it's cut-off in most maps. Rather small island to incorporate all of those different tribes. The ancestors of the Rivaini seem to have migrated from islands beyond the Donarks.

[Ashagar]

Huh I was under the impression that the Alamarri were a separate group that had migrated from the distant west as opposed to the Neromenians who came from the north, they certainly seemed to had different religious and cultural traditions than either the Northern or Southern Neromenians.

[Caddius]

Huh I was under the impression that the Alamarri were a separate group that had migrated from the distant west as opposed to the Neromenians who came from the north, they certainly seemed to had different religious and cultural traditions than either the Northern or Southern Neromenians.

I'm afraid there doesn't seem to be solid sources on it. But I think by 'split from the Neromenian', it doesn't mean that they were Neromenian.

It's like a lot of the fabled barbarian migrations of Antiquity. You have a few of the strongest tribes leading the way, and a few dozen smaller, weaker ones following them. The smaller tribes decide to settle down in a smaller, more isolated region while the strong ones insist on seizing the best land.

I imagine the Neromenians were a giant tribe, large enough to split into the Four Ancient Kingdoms that eventually formed the Tevinter Imperium. And the Alamarri were another large one that followed in their wake during the Great Migration, and hung out in modern-day Tevinter for a time. But as tensions increased, and whatever this business with the shadow goddess was happened, they migrated.

[TK514]

I would expect to find the insular and unwelcoming shadow of a once mighty empire. One that used magic and/or science to create a race of slaves with intelligence and fortitude to handle the menial tasks by combining their lowest caste citizens with beasts of unbridled power.

This Empire came to rely on this slave race they had created, and reacted poorly when said race started to question their place in the world. In a reversal of the Quarian/Geth scenario, the forces of the Empire managed to drive out their creations, forcing the former slave race to flee south with their new culture and strong lessons on the nature of war.

Without its long relied upon slave caste, however, the Empire collapsed in on itself. It's economy in shambles and with no class willing to perform menial labor, repairs from the war to vital infrastructure went unmade except on the individual level. What once was a combined nation is now enclaves built around powerful individuals who, while ostensibly allies, probe each other for weaknesses and raid one another to procure increasingly scarce resources.

At least that's what I expect BioWare to write, or something close enough to be recognizable.

[Ashagar]

That's possible or the next game will have said empire invading, taking out the qunari just to show how dangerous they are and ripping into the Tevinter Imperium and the northern nations like Attila the Hun .

 

Bonus if they are A: religiously dogmatic that holds both the Chantries' versions of the maker to be heresy to how the one true god should be worshiped or B: if they are fantasy counterpart Aztecs, Vikings or Canaanites.

[Lebanese Dude]

Canaanites.

 

YES

[Arvaarad]

I would expect to find the insular and unwelcoming shadow of a once mighty empire. One that used magic and/or science to create a race of slaves with intelligence and fortitude to handle the menial tasks by combining their lowest caste citizens with beasts of unbridled power.

The one thing that makes me hesitate about this theory: Corypheus knows that "your race is not even a race, it is a mistake".

How would he know that, if they already looked like that when they came south to Thedas?

[TK514]

The one thing that makes me hesitate about this theory: Corypheus knows that "your race is not even a race, it is a mistake".
How would he know that, if they already looked like that when they came south to Thedas?

The mistake part could have been their creator's allowing them too much intelligence or free will.

[Andreas Amell]

If the Kossith and the early humans migrated south to Thedas there had to have been reasons. Maybe their lands, or continents were ruined somehow by great catastrophe. That disaster could lead to the next big franchise or be related to ancient Elven history. I personally refer to them as the Shattered Lands.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I'm saying zombies. No. Wait. Dragon zombies!

 

 

[Ashevajak]

The one thing that makes me hesitate about this theory: Corypheus knows that "your race is not even a race, it is a mistake".

How would he know that, if they already looked like that when they came south to Thedas?

 

I always assumed Corypheus was just kinda racist.  By which I mean amazingly racist, given the historical Tevinter standard on these things.

[Ashagar]

Given he calls a dwarven inquisitor a glorified dirt grubber I'd agree he's extremely racist but it doesn't mean he's not acting on knowledge he knows and others don't when he says that.

[Arvaarad]

I always assumed Corypheus was just kinda racist. By which I mean amazingly racist, given the historical Tevinter standard on these things.

But I think Corypheus is right about qunari. If a Vashoth inquisitor talks to OGB'd Kieran, he'll also say something that implies the race was created from another.

If Corypheus knows about that, but doesn't know about the Titan thing that's going on with dwarves (something Kieran mentions to Cadash, and which Dagna vaguely stumbles on) that suggests that the experiment/"mistake" that created qunari must have been after they landed in Par Vollen. Or at least recent enough that the ones who landed talked about it enough that Tevinter learned of it.