560 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

 

 

 

The DR is selfish, no one have a problem to claim this even who decided to take that path

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

I have already said this and i will repeat it again.

Trusting a liar with a being that is capable of immense destruction,a being that is highly susceptible to the corruption,without knowing for certain what are Flemeth plans,without knowing at the time if the very untainted soul was still capable to emit the song, or if the darkspawns would have find the child somehow ,after all the blood that the ferelden people have paid,when you can kill the Old god and survive the same,is selfish. 

The only naive folks are the one who keep continue to babble that the DR was not selfish ,like you claim.

For all of yours babble about responsibility

(when i talked about Wynne,int the other topic) you're using double standards for your Warden,with the DR you avoid your responsability as a Warden which is KILL THE OLD GOD URTHEMIEL ,not just the carcass body that is the AD.

The DR is selfish, no one have a problem to claim this even who decided to take that path,yes Anti-hero in this specific case for my standards bye.

 

Pretty much most of this is just your bias toward morrigan.

In first place she didn't lie about anything when it comes to ritual , second there is nothing about being highly susceptible to the corruption ,third flemeth didn't have child only morrigan had ,fourth it didn't again you didn't revive old god only transfered its soul to the child so again there is no old god for darkspawn to taint....Pretty much all things you have pointed were demolished in dai save for flemeth capturing it ,what doesn't matter because again you don't give it to the flemeth only morrigan.

 

Again DR isn't selifish unless you make your motives selfish.

 

You failed hard here ,I suggests to read what i have wrote in about wynne thread.In another thread i was talking about wynne talking about responsibility all the time when she herself did throw away responsibility more than once i never said i was responsible.

 

Also no, your responsibility is to stop blight what you do regardless.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Why does everyone assume that you actually want to fulfill your responsability as a warden? You are essentially forced into being a Warden against your will in practically all the origins. For instance, why would a Dalish Warden who only became one because they became tainted by so happy to have their soul annihilated? Not everyone plays a Warden who actually wanted to be a Warden.

[TheKomandorShepard]

We were more talking about grey wardens responsibilities in that matter rather than about HoF having to care about them.

There are many motives that can drive HoF.

[Vorathrad]

What Komandor said; I was talking about your mission as a Grey Warden. If your character cares about it or not is for the player to decide.

[Vorathrad]

Elven powers should belong to elves.
These Humans are all thieves.

Yes! Elven glory!

[Nixou]

Elven powers should belong to elves.

 

 

Given what we learned about ancient Elvhenan, "Elven powers should belong to elves." is starting to sound like "Dixie's resources should belong to planters' heirs"

 

Trusting a liar

 

 

An interesting point about Morrigan is that she's actually rather honest. Sure, she's not half as knowledgeable about ancient lore as she claims, but that comes from the Dunning–Kruger effect, not duplicity. She genuinely believes that her mother wants to possess her, genuinely believes that there is value in preserving ancient magic, and if she warmed up to the Warden, genuinely wants her lover or good friend to survive the Blight.

 

That doesn't mean she's right: if anything, Inquisition clearly shows that she's biting way more than she can chew, but all things being considered, she's rather sincere and straightforward about her goals.

[Vorathrad]

 

Given what we learned about ancient Elvhenan, "Elven powers should belong to elves." is starting to sound like "Dixie's resources should belong to planters' heirs"

 

 

An interesting point about Morrigan is that she's actually rather honest. Sure, she's not half as knowledgeable about ancient lore as she claims, but that comes from the Dunning–Kruger effect, not duplicity. She genuinely believes that her mother wants to possess her, genuinely believes that there is value in preserving ancient magic, and if she warmed up to the Warden, genuinely wants her lover or good friend to survive the Blight.

 

That doesn't mean she's right: if anything, Inquisition clearly shows that she's biting way more than she can chew, but all things being considered, she's rather sincere and straightforward about her goals.

 

 

She lies by omission when it's convenient for her to do so, which is actually what good liars do. Whether she regrets it or it's the same to her as long as she achieves her goals, it very much depends on how much you like the character. 

[Aren]

Why does everyone assume that you actually want to fulfill your responsability as a warden?

This! Komandor read this! the voice of reason,this is exactly of what i was talking about.

You're mission as a GW is to kill the old god,if you don't want to it's fine,but not tell to me that you have taken your responsibility as a GW,because you're just kidding yourself,this is the voice of reason..

[Aren]

 

 

 

An interesting point about Morrigan is that she's actually rather honest. 

She lie during FLemeth quest when the Warden ask to her of why she was sent,it was not even a lies by omission just a pure lie.

[TheKomandorShepard]

This! Komandor read this! the voice of reason,this is exactly of what i was talking about.

You're mission as a GW is to kill the old god,if you don't want to it's fine,but not tell to me that you have taken your responsibility as a GW,because you're just kidding yourself,this is the voice of reason..

Again no it isn't ,your job as grey warden is to stop blight and fight darkspawn.Killing old god isn't grey warden job ,in first place grey wardens never killed an old god.

Second, from what i see he was talking about HoF that doesn't care about grey wardens what is irrelevant here because it is up to player and whether your warden hates grey wardens or love them they can still take DR with different motives in mind. . 

[Akiza]

Why does everyone assume that you actually want to fulfill your responsability as a warden? You are essentially forced into being a Warden against your will in practically all the origins. For instance, why would a Dalish Warden who only became one because they became tainted by so happy to have their soul annihilated? Not everyone plays a Warden who actually wanted to be a Warden.

Someone who is not willing to find contrived mambo jambo explanation unlike "Komandor"

a character who has decided to deviate from the GW path and responsibility and i'm fine with this,the voice of reason!.

 

In first place she didn't lie about anything when it comes to ritual ,

second there is nothing about being highly susceptible to the corruption ,

third flemeth didn't have child only morrigan had ,

fourth it didn't again you didn't revive old god only transfered its soul to the child so again there is no old god for darkspawn to taint....Pretty much all things you have pointed were demolished in dai save for flemeth capturing it ,what doesn't matter because again you don't give it to the flemeth only morrigan.

 

Again DR isn't selifish unless you make your motives selfish.

 

You failed hard here ,I suggests to read what i have wrote in about wynne thread.In another thread i was talking about wynne talking about responsibility all the time when she herself did throw away responsibility more than once i never said i was responsible.

 

Also no, your responsibility is to stop blight what you do regardless.

Magnificent and colossal text of bullshits

 

1)SHe lie,she lie,she lie,during Flemeth quest as "Secret rare" pointed out,and yes the lie revolve around the DR because she doesn't reveal to you that the reason of why she was sent was about the DR, she say something else a lie(the Warden can ask this twice even outside of Flemeth quest),do i have to take the conversation from the toolset?!

Also in WH she said that she intend to use the child for something, to create his destiny, to use him as a means to an end ,details of which she does not provide in Redcliffe under the Warden questions, these are called lies by omission(you don't  know the meaning of lies by omission that's your problem) as everyone have already pointed out,lie+lie by omission, case closed.

 

2)The souls of the old gods are highly susceptible to the darkspawn taint,go read the lore,the only thing that is required for an AD to reborn is his soul,his body is not required.

If the untainted soul is reached by the taint, you will have the AD once again rebuilded from scratch,it doesn't matter that the soul is untainted after the ritual,it still remain highly vulnerable and susceptible to the darkspawn taint,just like all the others living old gods,whom soul are untainted.

case closed.

 

3)The DR belong to Flemeth,it is her knowledge it was just passed to Morrigan,now what this means?

It means that it was Flemeth's plan all along,if the DR is performed she will start the hunting,but if your Warden si stupid enough to not consider this as a valid reason to reject the DR or more likely if your warden recognize the danger but are still willing to risk for personal survival,that is irresponsible and selfish,no one have a problem to admit this,the warden avoid responsability.

case closed.

 

4)Go to read poin two,you preserved his soul,what it means? 

It means that the old God Urthemiel still exist inside Kieran,they are two different entities,they are not the same person,there is no merging the old god still maintain his will and is in prefect control of himself,Kieran is incapable,incapable to use the power of the old god for his own benefit.

Again what this means? It means that Urthemiel still exist and that if his soul is reached by the taint boom! you will have the AD once again 

case closed.

Tainted old god souls=AD

 

Pretty much all that you have said doesn't make sense,because you give it to Morrigan fully knowing that it was FLemeth's plan all along and that the risk of her coming back is more than a mere possibility(oh look is canon it's happened),the Warden is selfish in the decision,avoid personal responsibility full

knowing the risks.

there are many reason behind the Ritual but being a GW is not one of them,case closed,the DR is not the GW paths and with it you avoid responsibility as a GW

case closed

 

 

[Aren]

in first place grey wardens never killed an old god.

 

What?!

Zazikale old god of chaos

Toth old god of fire

Andhoral old god of chains  

are pretty much dead killed by the GW (souls  included)

I will just pretending that you're not sober... 

[TheKomandorShepard]

What?!

Zazikale old god of chaos

Toth old god of fire

Andhoral old god of chains  

are pretty much dead killed by the GW (soul  included)

in the default Mhariel killed this one as well.

They have killed an archdemon not an old god as you or another warden do regardless of your choice.

[Secret Rare]

They have killed an archdemon not an old god as you or another warden do regardless of your choice.

Nope,they used their soul to destroy the one of the old god that was inside of the AD,they killed the old gods.

with the DR  of DAO you kill the AD,with the other 3 endings you kill Urthemiel as well,is pretty simple.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nope,they used their soul to destroy the one of the old god that was inside of the AD,they killed the old gods.

Again they have killed an archdemon, not an old god what they fought was an archdemon not old god anymore.

[Secret Rare]

Again they have killed an archdemon, not an old god what they fought was an archdemon not old god anymore.

Actually you're just arguing about technicalities,the fact that they killed an Old god in the form of an Archdemon does not disqualify the fact that they killed the old god as well with the AD,which is something that cannot happen with the DR in DAO,that is the difference between them,one is meant to kill the AD(the DR) the other to kill the AD and the Old god(US),they are not by any means the same thing.

So when you say the GW never killed an Old God,solely supported with this type of technicalities, you conveniently avoid to remember that the soul of the respective old gods that were inside the previous AD were destroyed alas killed.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Actually you're just arguing about technicalities,the fact that they killed an Old god in the form of an Archdemon does not disqualify the fact that they killed the old god as well with the AD,which is something that cannot happen with the DR in DAO,that is the difference between them,one is meant to kill the AD(the DR) the other to kill the AD and the Old god(US),they are not by any means the same thing.

So when you say the GW never killed an Old God,solely supported with this type of technicalities, you conveniently avoid to remember that the soul of the respective old gods that were inside the previous AD were destroyed alas killed.

 

 

Because they are important here ,old god is gone replaced by archdemon so you are killing an archdemon in both cases you destroy an archdemon with that DR restores its soul to its uncorrupted form read old god.

 

Of course none of that matters to what i was saying as grey wardens job is to stop blight and fight darkspawn ,you stop blight by killing an archdemon regardless of your choice.

[Qun00]

Yeah, the Grey Wardens don't accomplish anything.

They just love killing themselves for no reason. Yup.

[Secret Rare]

Also i didn't mention the fact that Gaider already confirmed that the Dark ritual do not provide any strategical advantage in battle (is purpose is only to save 1 GW at the cost of preserve the Old god essence).

if the DR is performed to work,(and this is something that Morrigan never reveal in-game another lie by omission because i'm sure that she know this) a GW need to strike the final blow,otherwise the magic will not work,and the AD essence will travel to another Darkspawn.

[Qun00]

Riordan explained how it works.

The grey warden takes the Old God's soul into himself. Since two souls can't share a single body, they're destroyed together.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Again they don't kill old god because it isn't old god anymore only archdemon so they can't kill something that doesn't exist anymore.Old god became archdemon and if you did DR archdemon is gone but old god is restored or rather his soul.

 

 

No they don't solve problems permanently they have no idea in first place what will happen with darkspawn when they will kill every archdemon what pretty much some characters with great knowledge suggested may be bad idea. 

 

 

And how do you know what senior warden would do?In first place it is matter of individual we are talking about... and that is avoiding fact that those guys wanted to summon army of demons. Job description is pretty much fight with darkspawn and stop the blight if we deal with it by any mean necessary.

 

It isn't necessary to kill archdemon you are right, but neither is dying ,DR is just alternative solution pretty much i have already compared to shooting your enemy in the face instead jumping with your enemy from the cliff. Depending whether you trust morrigan or not it may be simple victory without unnecessary cost. 

[Aren]

Yeah, the Grey Wardens don't accomplish anything.

They just love killing themselves for no reason. Yup.

Thedas people are always ungrateful..........  (i'm one of them i confess i don't care of the GW)

Also with their sacrifice the old god essence is killed not  disposed into the hands of crazy goddess/ witches

(if a man can even reedem himself then is just a  for this game i have Blackwolly ).

So long Bioware will provide to my someone who has to atone,i'm happy.

My DAO slogan is

No pain Loghain.

[Akiza]

Riordan explained how it works.

The grey warden takes the Old God's soul into himself. Since two souls can't share a single body, they're destroyed together.

No i give up with the Komandor,he  believe that the GW do not kill the old god soul when they  sacrifice themselves against the AD,is a dead line with that user.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

No i give up with the Komandor,he  believe that the GW do not kill the old god soul when they  sacrifice themselves against the AD,is a dead line with that user.

 

They kill archdemon and destroing its essence/soul (or at least they think they do), while DR removes corruption from its essence and reverts it back to what it was before it was corrupted.