560 réponses à ce sujet

[biccs_pudding]

She says that right after rubbing it in your face that it's not your choice.

 

"Rubbing it in"? She stated a fact, nothing more, in a particularly non-condescending way. Could have said it a lot more Morriganly like "My presence here is something you have to grudgingly endure, Inquisitor (*grimacing*). Unlike your minor victories so far, 'tis beyond your control." Or something like that. She even says "The assignment was given to me, regardless of my personal interest, though I do not oppose it. [...] What I possess I place at your disposal, to make use of or ignore as you desire."

 

Aside from a little hissy fit at the well, there's nothing particularly offensive she says to the Inquisitor the entire game, regardless of his friendliness. The same cannot be said about the Warden or anyone else for that matter.

 

 

As for Skyhold Morrigan has always had a respect for power and influence.

 

Like she respected an unfriendly Warden? King Alistair? Loghain? Empress Celene? The Divine? Vivienne? Flemeth?

No, I don't think that opposing influential individuals concerns her one bit, Fade magic or no. She had no particular reason to be in the Inquisitor's good graces, seeing that she leaves his/her company pretty soon anyway.

 

 

Eh Morrigan didn't like making a fool of herself even in origins. And throwing a tantrum would've achieved nothing and worse if she had ditched them she'd doomed herself as well as them.

 

The scene she made after denying her the DR was exactly that, as the haters would often point out. God knows I love the character a great deal but as Flemeth said "She always had a flair for the dramatic."

[AnimalBoy]

I accepter. Why? Because Morrigan was already my love interest so why not? That and i wasn't going to give up my life.

[ModernAcademic]

Team Loghain is the most awesome and deserve the epic redemption ending.

 

Team DR+Loghain and proud of it.   Loghain haters can go kiss an ogre's big, fat ***.

 

Kieran couldn't have a better progenitor.  

[Ryzaki]

"Rubbing it in"? She stated a fact, nothing more, in a particularly non-condescending way. Could have said it a lot more Morriganly like "My presence here is something you have to grudgingly endure, Inquisitor (*grimacing*). Unlike your minor victories so far, 'tis beyond your control." Or something like that. She even says "The assignment was given to me, regardless of my personal interest, though I do not oppose it. [...] What I possess I place at your disposal, to make use of or ignore as you desire."

 

Aside from a little hissy fit at the well, there's nothing particularly offensive she says to the Inquisitor the entire game, regardless of his friendliness. The same cannot be said about the Warden or anyone else for that matter.

 

 

 

Like she respected an unfriendly Warden? King Alistair? Loghain? Empress Celene? The Divine? Vivienne? Flemeth?

No, I don't think that opposing influential individuals concerns her one bit, Fade magic or no. She had no particular reason to be in the Inquisitor's good graces, seeing that she leaves his/her company pretty soon anyway.

 

 

 

The scene she made after denying her the DR was exactly that, as the haters would often point out. God knows I love the character a great deal but as Flemeth said "She always had a flair for the dramatic."

 

Fair enough I'm just going to take that as me being annoyed at her being forced. *shrug*

 

I never said opposing power concerns her. That said you're right about her having little reason to be in the Inquisitor's good graces (outside maybe them being more liable to trust her with the well because of it).

 

One would think Orlais would've straightened her out of such displays if nothing else.

[Ryzaki]

It's not really the kid. Bioware recognized that Morrigans morality in DAO is insanity. This is why she toned it down even without Kieran.

 

Which honestly is why I prefer the Redeemer ending. Everything gets tied up so neatly.

[biccs_pudding]

Fair enough I'm just going to take that as me being annoyed at her being forced. *shrug*

 

That's understandable, she left a lot of people with grudges in Origins. I just personally find it hard to understand why people still uphold those grudges when she obviously changed for the better (those who only played DAI didn't have a problem with her whatsoever) and doesn't have that much screen time anyway. But I guess I shouldn't dwell on it much.

 

 

 

I never said opposing power concerns her. That said you're right about her having little reason to be in the Inquisitor's good graces (outside maybe them being more liable to trust her with the well because of it).

 

Yeah, the well could have been a reason had she known about it beforehand, but she didn't. They go into the Arbor Wilds to secure an Eluvian, no one expected the well to be there, nor knew how powerful it was.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

1 lie isn't lying for an entire year , as i said she just didn't told you the truth there is difference.

 

But i love how you count her every lie even the smallest as you yourself never told a lie.

 

And no that doesn't make her a liar only traitor , because she intended to help you thus she just failed to fulfill the agreement.

snip

[Donquijote and 59 others]

The DR was easy for me because Alistair will just do whatever my Warden tells him to anyway.

 

 

Actually this is a lot of weird.

Alistair is a minion of the Warden for player agency, his character was a very devoted warden who believed in their ideals, someone who wanted to kill Loghain because Loghain wronged the Wardens.

He would have rejected the ritual just by thinking at Duncan and his cause,but he did not because he was programmed as a mindless minion at redcliffe.

Loghain instead didn't liked the Wardens so it is not difficult to picture him doing the ritual even if he don't like it.

[Ryzaki]

That's understandable, she left a lot of people with grudges in Origins. I just personally find it hard to understand why people still uphold those grudges when she obviously changed for the better (those who only played DAI didn't have a problem with her whatsoever) and doesn't have that much screen time anyway. But I guess I shouldn't dwell on it much.

 

 

 

Yeah, the well could have been a reason had she known about it beforehand, but she didn't. They go into the Arbor Wilds to secure an Eluvian, no one expected the well to be there, nor knew how powerful it was.

 

Simply because it's the untouchable factor. Alistair annoyed me too but I could screw him over. *shrug* She's also chaotic stupid evil in a game where no one else is that stupid.

 

Yep but as soon as she figures it's there she's cagey and thirsty. It's just weird. That backfire was amusing though.

 

I'll just take it as a character fix that was badly needed.

[Secret Rare]

 

 your mother was someone who would've encouraged you to kill your own parents for your gain and completely flipped on that after squeezing you out I don't see the relevance.

And my point was babies don't make someone morally bankrupt a better person. Period. It doesn't work that way. You're not going to go from someone who encourages someone to kill their parents for their gain and an all about me personality to giving a damn about others just because you had a child.

 

lmfao at feminist manophobia. You have gots to be kidding me. That certainly is a level of stupidity I didn't expect to see.

I share the sentiment mostly.

Since i had the misfortune to bring Morrigan to confront Caladrius with a warden from a CE origin.... there she lost everything as a character to me,what a shame really since despite her evident lack of compassion i still liked her until that point when she literally forced me to consider her more as an enemy rather than a member of the group.

During that quest she literally insisted twice to crush the prisoners either with slavery or either with  a sacrifice.....

[German Soldier]

 

 

 

If the Warden didn't accept the DR in Origins and/or they stabbed her in Witch Hunt: "We did not part on good terms. I regret a great deal, but that most of all."
 
 

One moment the first statement is correct,if Morrigan is stabbed in Wh however if i'm not mistaken the line was another it was something like "we parted on poor terms"

[biccs_pudding]

Simply because it's the untouchable factor. Alistair annoyed me too but I could screw him over. *shrug* She's also chaotic stupid evil in a game where no one else is that stupid.

 

I rather saw her as misguided, inexperienced and unconnected to the world of men (in no small thanks to Flemeth). Part of her is still a child in terms of proper development (proper as in "not raised in the woods with rabid Templars chasing her every Tuesday") with naive or distorted assertions of the world, making a strange mix with some otherwise mature or even wise philosophies. It intrigued me from the get go. Fixing that was a personal challenge for me, and it paid off pretty nicely. Stupid is imo something that can't be fixed. Like Oghren.

That said, I don't think Gaider was in total control of his own writing of her 100% of the time.

 

 

One moment the first statement is correct,if Morrigan is stabbed in Wh however if i'm not mistaken the line was another it was something like "we parted on poor terms"

 

Uhm, isn't that the same thing? I directly quoted her from the vid I linked earlier. It's possible that it slightly varies though I don't think the difference between "not good" and "poor" is that significant.

[Incantrix]

Dark ritual.

 

A few minutes of torture seeing the man she loves screw morrigan was worth the several years she'd get to spend with him. Besides, Morrigan and She were friends anyway so it was kinda like a friendly mutual favor. 

[In Exile]

I rather saw her as misguided, inexperienced and unconnected to the world of men (in no small thanks to Flemeth). Part of her is still a child in terms of proper development (proper as in "not raised in the woods with rabid Templars chasing her every Tuesday") with naive or distorted assertions of the world, making a strange mix with some otherwise mature or even wise philosophies. It intrigued me from the get go. Fixing that was a personal challenge for me, and it paid off pretty nicely. Stupid is imo something that can't be fixed. Like Oghren.

That said, I don't think Gaider was in total control of his own writing of her 100% of the time

 

It's more than that, though, because sometimes she says thinks that are just plain dumb. Like her view on not helping Teagan - there's clearly a huge upside for anyone interested in self advancement there, i.e., being owed a favour from, if Eamon is dead, one of the most powerful lords in the realm. And from a pragmatic POV, if Eamon is dead, then Teagan has to absolutely survive as Arl of Redcliffe (the alternative being Teagan's young son, who wouldn't be fit to rally anyone against Loghain). 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Dark Ritual, because self preservation is more sensible and logical than self sacrifice. 

[Ryzaki]

I rather saw her as misguided, inexperienced and unconnected to the world of men (in no small thanks to Flemeth). Part of her is still a child in terms of proper development (proper as in "not raised in the woods with rabid Templars chasing her every Tuesday") with naive or distorted assertions of the world, making a strange mix with some otherwise mature or even wise philosophies. It intrigued me from the get go. Fixing that was a personal challenge for me, and it paid off pretty nicely. Stupid is imo something that can't be fixed. Like Oghren.

That said, I don't think Gaider was in total control of his own writing of her 100% of the time.

 

Nah it's not misguided it's straight up stupidity. Redcliffe is a prime example. You gain nothing by leaving everyone to fend for themselves. (It just makes your job harder) the smartest (if a bit cold) thing to do in that situation would be to use the redcliffe villagers as meatshields. Not allow them to be used against you.

 

Then she spends the whole game antagonizing who she needs for the DR (especially facepalm worthy if your pc is a female). But prides herself on manipulation? Her ridiculousness in DAO continues to baffle me.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

-The first lie at her hut was the first time in which Morrigan lied the beggining of the year.

In this case she did not limited herself in hiding the truth like you said in this case she said a lie because she told to the warden to not know while in truth she did know thus misleading them.

Flemeth didn't lied she did what you said, not Morrigan.

 

 

-A lie isn't relevant in itself , depend on a lot of things  surely one that concerned the warden life was important.

 So long as you aren't fooling the leader of the team a friend or a lover  or the subject of that lie isn't important i don't care for a lie.

 

-Well  one can't be a "traitor" without a reason,in this case  the reason being the fact that she and Flemeth told to you that her reason to join was to help to defeat the blight ,while in truth she lied because was the creation of the OGB and she refuse to remain under that goal.

She didn't failed to fulfill the agreement,she didn't want to which is different if someone can't' join the final battle because is sick is one thing and this person fail to fulfill the mission for an understandable motivation,Morrigan didn't failed she willingly refused.

 

 

Except morrigan in that case lied about something else not ritual so... ,  she mostly avoided topic when asked about her motives.

 

This lie wasn't very relevant and in fact didn't threatened the mission or life or the warden , in fact quite contrary it can save life one of wardens unlike lies some of other companions like Leliana.

 

Eee no , she did join to help you defeat blight and she did help you in that task , but her primary was DR those tasks aren't mutually exclusive. LoL , yes she did fail and now you are playing with words. when i say she ate pie you say she didn't ate pie she consumed it what is pretty much the same thing. 

[Seracen]

Ritual every time.  Yes, the heroic death is all well and good, but ultimately pointless.  You get so many more interesting little wrinkles in the story if the Hero of Ferelden is alive (and even more if Leliana or Morrigan are romanced).  Moreover, the inclusion of Kieran is awesome all around, both for the power he represents, and how he forces Morrigan to grow as a character.  Additionally, the passing of the Old God powers to Flemeth echo the post-credits Fen'Herel moment rather nicely.  Still, it's all ultimately flavor text by the time Inquisition rolls around.

[Neuro]

Simple. I saw the Calling trailer before the game was released, and was floored -- that sort of heroic last stand, in the dark, alone but unflinching, really struck a note with me, and I hoped the game would offer me something similar. When Riordan revealed the grim price for killing an archdemon, I knew for a fact that he would try but fail since he's not the protagonist, so it'd be up to Alistair or myself. And while the Calling trailer was awesome, being one of only five people to ever end a Blight was an even better way to say goodbye to my Warden. She was, in a way, always meant to die even before I knew that the game would allow it. So I threw her at the archdemon and didn't regret it for a moment. There's no other ending I could ever choose.

 

Also, I loathe the thought of letting a friend (Alistair) die in my place. I like playing "heroic" characters, and what hero hides behind another's death? Sparing Loghain was never even an option for me.  Similarly, I utterly despise Morrigan like few other characters ever, saw not a single redeeming feature in her through the game, and thus would never have listened to her -- much less gambled for the safety of the world on her say-so.

 

I agree w/ dis post sooo much.  Full of win.  Cheers.

[Ryzaki]

Dark Ritual, because self preservation is more sensible and logical than self sacrifice. 

 

To be fair you can sacrifice someone that's not yourself. Redeemer has as many pros than DR honestly. (If not more since we don't have to worry about the old god soul fueling crazy ancient elves).

[Tidus]

Ryzaki,Redemption has it flaws and self preservation kicks in more then most realize.

 

Experiences of my youth taught me many life long lessons and the very last thing I would want is a man that wanted me dead standing behind me armed. No redemption here for Loghain.

[In Exile]

To be fair you can sacrifice someone that's not yourself. Redeemer has as many pros than DR honestly. (If not more since we don't have to worry about the old god soul fueling crazy ancient elves).

What did Riordan do at the time to justify the degree of faith in what he says? Throughout the game we learn that Wardens blatantly and purposely lie to their recruits, and even their more senior Wardens. Riordan tells you how to supposedly kill the AD. But there's no reason to believe him anymore than Morrigan. Either way you have no way to verify what you're told.

[biccs_pudding]

It's more than that, though, because sometimes she says thinks that are just plain dumb. Like her view on not helping Teagan - there's clearly a huge upside for anyone interested in self advancement there, i.e., being owed a favour from, if Eamon is dead, one of the most powerful lords in the realm. And from a pragmatic POV, if Eamon is dead, then Teagan has to absolutely survive as Arl of Redcliffe (the alternative being Teagan's young son, who wouldn't be fit to rally anyone against Loghain). 

 

 

Nah it's not misguided it's straight up stupidity. Redcliffe is a prime example. You gain nothing by leaving everyone to fend for themselves. (It just makes your job harder) the smartest (if a bit cold) thing to do in that situation would be to use the redcliffe villagers as meatshields. Not allow them to be used against you.

 

I don't think leaving the villagers to fend for themselves is dumb at all. Cold and ruthless, sure, but game-logic aside willingly putting yourself and your team (aka the only surviving Grey Wardens around who could possibly end the Blight and thus save countless other lives) in harm's way in a non-Blight-related issue for a single village is way too risky. Same with the Circle, actually. I think people are way too comfortable with the goody-two-shoes playthroughs in RPGs nowadays because the meta formed them to be tehnically superior to any other way, and DA is no exception (I hear that the Witcher kind of is, but I'm not too familiar with that one). They would think twice about it if a random one of your party members dies in a cutscene during the battle against the undead, which is entirely possible from a roleplaying standpoint.

 

At the point of speaking to Teagan about helping Redcliffe out no one actually knows the exact mechanics of the undead attacks. It is just described as some bloody mess that may or may not be related to the Arl's condition. "Using the villagers as meatshields" is not much an option at that moment, and again from a roleplaying standpoint why would they want to do that if they could just simply wait out the night and leave the castle when the undead already receded?

While RPGing I prefer to think big. Yes, the villagers are people, they are suffering, they are not at fault for the massacre they have to face and have no hope of fighting it alone yadda yadda. But all this is a minuscule issue compared to the Blight, which we are technically the best people to end, therefore our little team indeed holds bigger value than a village of a few hundred peasants, Teagan puppy eyes or no. I don't fault either Sten or Morrigan for what they are saying to Teagan. In that situation, in their shoes, without game meta knowledge, I would probably say the same thing and I don't think I would be evil for that. It's not what I did in my canon playthrough, I reluctantly helped, but only because of meta.

 

About Eamon's legacy and Redcliffe's rulership, yes it's a risk to ignore Redcliffe's plight and go straight for an Arl that may not be alive and risking the next-in-line's life at the same time, leaving only Connor who would indeed not be fit to oppose Loghain. But as I said risking your entire team's hide in a battle that might kill us all, Teagan included for all we know isn't objectively better at all.

Let's see the "ignore Redcliffe's plight" scenarios for a bit (this does not include later info about Connor, the Demon, the Sacred Ashes and whatnot):

We find Eamon alive, Teagan dies in battle -> we have an Arl who will most likely help us if cured, regardless of what we did with the village (we don't have to be friends for Eamon to hate Loghain)

We find Eamon dead, but Teagan survived the battle -> we have a new Arl who hates our guts, but would stand up agiainst Loghain nevertheless if he has any brains (again, we don't have to be friends for Teagan to accept the direness of the Loghain situation)

We find Eamon dead, and Teagan also dies -> we're screwed, we get no Landsmeet

 

The odds are against Teagan here. Note that alternatively the last scenario could be replaced with "our team perishes, even if there's a Landsmeet it's pointless".

 

 

Then she spends the whole game antagonizing who she needs for the DR (especially facepalm worthy if your pc is a female). But prides herself on manipulation? Her ridiculousness in DAO continues to baffle me.

 

Offering a way around death is a tempting enough offer even for a non-friend, from her point of view. I don't think she even calculates with the possibility of the Warden willingly choosing the US (which is regardless of a friends-with-her state btw), for she doesn't understand the concept of sacrifice due to her upbringing (which again, I don't count as stupidity, just naiveté and inexperience with the world). She also couldn't calculate with Loghain, as in someone who the Warden would happily toss to the AD and he would even love it. I don't think it could have been foreseen by anyone. As for Alistair, he does whatever the Warden tells him to do and Morrigan knows this since Lothering, pretty much. His grievances don't matter for a second.

As you can see in this thread among many others no doubt, she wasn't entirely off the bat.

[Catilina]

With Ertenion Surana was a simple choice: he was in love with Morrigan. Dark ritual.

With Elana Surana was more difficult: she was in love with Allistair (and Zevran, ofc...), and she seen Allistar's face, when talked with him from Morrigan's offer... She enthronized Allistair with Anora, and Sacrificed herself. (Poor Zevran...)

My Elissa Cousland, who being queen of Ferelden with Allistair, dont have moral problems with the ritual. Dark ritual (Allistair)

[German Soldier]

Dark ritual.

 

A few minutes of torture seeing the man she loves screw morrigan was worth the several years she'd get to spend with him. Besides, Morrigan and She were friends anyway so it was kinda like a friendly mutual favor. 

It isn't a matter of "torture of the ritual" it is the effect what it is relevant which is pack the soul of the old god and give it to crazy elven gods that's why the 3 other endings are there to prevent that from happening,sorry if i don't trust Mythal or the Dread  wolf or Urthemiel when all that they did in their own way was to shape the world at their whism.

 

Dark Ritual, because self preservation is more sensible and logical than self sacrifice. 

Not for me if that self preservation come with the insane risk to let the soul of an old god reborn for no reason whatsoever with the risk that it could have been tainted again or found by Flemeth.

 

...

 

What did Riordan do at the time to justify the degree of faith in what he says? 

This make no sense,i don't need to trust Riordan solely because he is a senior warden or because he is trustworthy,i trust him because i have evidence from the previous blight,one can say

"So that's why  Corin and Gharael died afterall with the related archdemons Zazikale and Andhoral,this make sense" and their death against the archdemons is an historical fact.

Also what reason he have to lie to you by telling to you that you would die in order to kill the archdemon and that he want to be the first one to sacrifice himslef?

What you said make no sense at all to me.