Its seems writers have to put one "evil" character in to the story, just because. But instead of evil, it comes across stupid.
See also: Dark Side and Closed Fist choices in previous Bioware games. By and large, Bioware's writers have always had trouble writing believable intelligent and selfish characters.
Dark Ritual, easy choice.
Get laid. ecc ecc...
you seems to have a very low opinion of how the male mind works.
Not all males are pigs who only think of having sex with any woman who happens to be attractive (well attractiveness is subjective)
you seems to have a very low opinion of how the male mind works.
Not all males are pigs who only think of having sex with any woman who happens to be attractive (well attractiveness is subjective)
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Sacrifice, not because of GW honor but because I do not want to survive at the cost of giving away a son of mine.
To die for what they have not yet created? If you create, and you survive, you have a chance to look for him. But an interesting position.
After careful consideration, my answer is:- Neither.
My Warden romanced Morrigan the friendship path (gain her approval, get the grimoire, wait for Morrigan to ask if there can be more between us and then bang her). Then, he recruited Loghain and made hardened Alistair co-rule with Anora.
When Morrigan proposed the Dark Ritual, he rejected it because Morrigan does not give any tangible reasons for preserving Urthemiel's soul. Is she going to study or conduct research with it ? What could an untainted Urthemiel's soul be used for exactly ?
This leads to the second reason to be against the Dark Ritual. Making Kieran shoulder the burden of housing the Old God soul without him having any say on it is no different from Dorian's parents wanting to force him to be someone he is not and his father was willing to use blood magic to make that happen. Recall that Morrigan and the Warden engage in a blood magic ritual to force their offspring to lead a life that he did not ask for. In many ways, it is no different from parents who treat their children as merely a tool to carry out their dashed hopes and wishes instead of a sentient being that should choose their own path someday.
That is probably the biggest reason of me being against the Dark Ritual. I was the firstborn of an Asian family, the son who was shouldered with all the wishes and hopes of his parents and as such, was never really allowed to choose a life path he wanted until I rebelled and we had massive arguments where I won. I do not want an innocent child to be shouldered with the burden of carrying the soul of a powerful ancient being without him having any choice in it, much in the same way I do not want anyone to be raised and driven to study solely to be a medical doctor that gets married, gets a big house and pops out the typical 2.5 kids and have hobbies that his parents had to approve and control, has to eat food that his parents had to approve and control, etc.
When the time comes, Loghain made the killing blow and the Warden survives to step into the Eluvian with Morrigan (who is surprisingly warm and receptive of him even though he did not do the Dark Ritual).
In Inquisition, you get a normal Kieran that is a very sweet and adorable kid instead of the autistic OGB Kieran. Furthermore, you end up with Stroud over Loghain who you can sacrifice at Adamant.
The only reason to refuse a dark ritual, with a "good" char, If you do not believe Morrigan, and you think: the child will be evil. I think.
This obviously exclude the whole "This was a Flemeth idea from the start" and " i do not know what an old god is"
back on Morrigan
She grew up in such a manner that long term deception of the one she loved (assuming you romanced her) was fine. She grew up in such a way that she wanted to slaughter the mages not because they may be a threat, but because they did not share her views and subjected themselves to the Chantry. She objects if you don't kill them all.
That's not "ruthless" or a simple lack of compassion, that's utter contempt and lack of respect for life.
Give an old god to a person like that was insane to me,Morrigan had time to prove herslef yet to me she was undeserving because she was insane in DAO and the risk was too high.
This leads to the second reason to be against the Dark Ritual. Making Kieran shoulder the burden of housing the Old God soul without him having any say on it
True that! i hate when someone wish to plan the life of others from the start,i mean where is the freedom and fun in that?
the Warden survives to step into the Eluvian with Morrigan (who is surprisingly warm and receptive of him even though he did not do the Dark Ritual).
Well i'm impressed ,because on that situation it is your warden who should be mad at her for her betrayal not the other way around.
edit
I did consider what she did a betrayal if she was romanced by the warden while the DR was not performed.
I did consider what she did a betrayal if she was romanced by the warden while the DR was not performed.
On top of that I personally dislike how Morrigan try to emotionally blackmail the Warden if they are not interested in her plan and all out leave if you refuse to give in to her very unfair tactics. Not to mention if Loghain is recruited he is a perfect choice to sacrifice and there is no need for the dark ritual at all.
On top of that I personally dislike how Morrigan try to emotionally blackmail the Warden if they are not interested in her plan and all out leave if you refuse to give in to her very unfair tactics. Not to mention if Loghain is recruited he is a perfect choice to sacrifice and there is no need for the dark ritual at all. [/size]
It is a matter of priority ,Alistair friendship is not worth the security of the world and it is not worth to risk with the Evanuris why i should care about the friendship toward one single person over the security of the world?Unfortunatelt, choosing that option ruins the Warden's friendship with Alistair.
Also, the hero should always be the one to slay the mighty beast.
Yes I do remember Morrigan trying to make a last ditch effort by claiming that Loghain would get all the accolades among the humans and I scoffed because from my dalish perspective, so what? These weren't her people anyway.
It was the same for my elf,why she should care to be remembered by those shamlens?
All of whom she care is her clan that is why i refused to play DAA ,i'm not doing anything more for humans
On top of that I personally dislike how Morrigan try to emotionally blackmail the Warden if they are not interested in her plan and all out leave if you refuse to give in to her very unfair tactics. Not to mention if Loghain is recruited he is a perfect choice to sacrifice and there is no need for the dark ritual at all.
That only works if we apply plot armor and gamer foreknowledge. As far as the characters are concerned, there is a very real chance all....three of them may die even before they get to the archdemon.
Unfortunatelt, choosing that option ruins the Warden's friendship with Alistair.
Also, the hero should always be the one to slay the mighty beast.
I think that shows a level of immaturity on the part of Alistair.
"Hey, I don't get to kill a guy whom I blame for the death of my mentor and father-figure, despite the fact that I outright said we were late for the signal while on the tower of Ishal, so I'll step up to be king just so I can order his execution, and if this conscription goes forward I will leave the Wardens and let the country possibly burn because I didn't get my way."
The only time he actually does anything when leaving the Wardens is if he is to be King and marry Anora, in which case he's going around gathering the country's troops but still refuses to fight because he has no interest in fighting alongside Loghain.
I understand where he's coming from but it's entirely childish.
Unfortunatelt, choosing that option ruins the Warden's friendship with Alistair.
Also, the hero should always be the one to slay the mighty beast.
I don't give enough of a damn about Loghain to keep him around, so Alistair never gives me any problems.
I don't give enough of a damn about Loghain to keep him around, so Alistair never gives me any problems.
That is one of the big reasons why I refuse the DR. Plus, Morrigan is such an utter assh*le that it automatically landed on the "HELL NO!" discard pile of supremely bad ideas because there was no reason whatsoever to trust her, even without considering the fact that she had been lying and withholding information all the time.
I think that shows a level of immaturity on the part of Alistair.
"Hey, I don't get to kill a guy whom I blame for the death of my mentor and father-figure, despite the fact that I outright said we were late for the signal while on the tower of Ishal, so I'll step up to be king just so I can order his execution, and if this conscription goes forward I will leave the Wardens and let the country possibly burn because I didn't get my way."
The only time he actually does anything when leaving the Wardens is if he is to be King and marry Anora, in which case he's going around gathering the country's troops but still refuses to fight because he has no interest in fighting alongside Loghain.
I understand where he's coming from but it's entirely childish.
Agree
this is from TEWR and i agree to his post
Alistair will be fine and follow us if we
1) kill Connor or Isolde
2) Wipe out the Circle
3) Preserve the Anvil where Dwarven souls will be forged into Golems
4) Kill the Dalish Elves. Or the Werewolves
5) Leave Redcliffe to the zombie horde
6) sell Elves into slavery -- which would give us no reason to condemn Loghain
7) work with a possessed corpse at one point
8) murderknife people left and right
and so on and so forth. So for Loghain to be the thing where he draws the line just makes him seem like a child who has no concept of where he stands on anything. He'll voice his disapproval about the other things but that he is more willing to accept slavery and follow the Warden rather then work with Loghain makes me really see him as a fool.
So what did you do? DR or US?
Dark Ritual, as I answered earlier in this topic.
I like Morrigan and her cynicism. She's a good moral compass if she disapproves I know I've done something right.back on Morrigan
After careful consideration, my answer is:- Neither.
My Warden romanced Morrigan the friendship path (gain her approval, get the grimoire, wait for Morrigan to ask if there can be more between us and then bang her). Then, he recruited Loghain and made hardened Alistair co-rule with Anora.
When Morrigan proposed the Dark Ritual, he rejected it because Morrigan does not give any tangible reasons for preserving Urthemiel's soul. Is she going to study or conduct research with it ? What could an untainted Urthemiel's soul be used for exactly ?
This leads to the second reason to be against the Dark Ritual. Making Kieran shoulder the burden of housing the Old God soul without him having any say on it is no different from Dorian's parents wanting to force him to be someone he is not and his father was willing to use blood magic to make that happen. Recall that Morrigan and the Warden engage in a blood magic ritual to force their offspring to lead a life that he did not ask for. In many ways, it is no different from parents who treat their children as merely a tool to carry out their dashed hopes and wishes instead of a sentient being that should choose their own path someday.
That is probably the biggest reason of me being against the Dark Ritual. I was the firstborn of an Asian family, the son who was shouldered with all the wishes and hopes of his parents and as such, was never really allowed to choose a life path he wanted until I rebelled and we had massive arguments where I won. I do not want an innocent child to be shouldered with the burden of carrying the soul of a powerful ancient being without him having any choice in it, much in the same way I do not want anyone to be raised and driven to study solely to be a medical doctor that gets married, gets a big house and pops out the typical 2.5 kids and have hobbies that his parents had to approve and control, has to eat food that his parents had to approve and control, etc.
When the time comes, Loghain made the killing blow and the Warden survives to step into the Eluvian with Morrigan (who is surprisingly warm and receptive of him even though he did not do the Dark Ritual).
In Inquisition, you get a normal Kieran that is a very sweet and adorable kid instead of the autistic OGB Kieran. Furthermore, you end up with Stroud over Loghain who you can sacrifice at Adamant.
^That's not cool especially because as argumentation she imply that "after one night it could be barely called a child"
I do wish more people included Kieran in the equation when discussing the Ritual's morality.
Morrigan's proposal involves using a child as a mere tool for her personal goal, and... we're supposed to be cool with that.
Well it isn't that she wanted to cook and eat him. 
From what i recall she said she wanted to raise him and child would be unharmed , of course whether you trust her is another thing but if we metagame we know Kieran is fine.
^That's not cool especially because as argumentation she imply that "after one night it could be barely called a child"
Aside from the fact that the ritual take place in Redcliffe while is completed after at least 1 week (because you know Morrigan, we don't kill the archdemon exactly that night but 1 or 2 week later) but that's not even the issue the effect of the ritual are supposed to be permanent so in the end her argument does not make much sense to me.
I think it is screw up on devs part as devs didn't think it through , as you can talk to Morrigan after DR in denerim and there is extra dialogue line for the warden "i want to talk about last night".
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