560 réponses à ce sujet

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Well it isn't that she wanted to cook and eat him.

 

From what i recall she said she wanted to raise him and child would be unharmed , of course whether you trust her is another thing but if we metagame we know Kieran is fine.

 

 

 

That's subjective,you may call it fine but to me OGB seemed a little bit retarded until Flemeth removed that thing.

Unlike Kieran FLemeth behaviour was not altered when she took the soul into herself, that just show that she was a better host for Urthemiel that Kieran ever was.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's subjective,you may call it fine but to me OGB seemed a little bit retarded until Flemeth removed that thing.

Unlike Kieran FLemeth behaviour was not altered when she took the soul into herself, that just show that she was a better host for Urthemiel that Kieran ever was.

LoL , i wouldn't call it retarded quite contrary OGB seems to have more insight on topic of races and generally show more knowledge than normal Kieran.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

LoL , i wouldn't call it retarded quite contrary OGB seems to have more insight on topic of races and generally show more knowledge than normal Kieran.

To me it seemed pretty retarded like that lunatic of  Sandal,sometime he seemed a normal child sometime he changed his behaviour it was like to talk to two persons.

Also it wasn't his knowledge it was the one of Urthemiel.

[TheKomandorShepard]

To me it seemed pretty retarded like that lunatic of  Sandal,sometime he seemed a normal child sometime he changed his behaviour it was like to talk to two persons.

Also it wasn't his knowledge it was the one of Urthemiel.

He would be retarded if he had lesser ability to function than others, pretty much kid was at worst weird and creppy at times .

Well sure , but he shared body with him.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

He would be retarded if he had lesser ability to function than others

That's not what i meant.

Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder  is a mental disorder on the dissociative spectrum characterized by the appearance of at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states that alternately control a person's behavior, accompanied by memory impairment for important information not explained by ordinary forgetfulness,that's why the OGB is retarded.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's not what i meant.

Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder  is a mental disorder on the dissociative spectrum characterized by the appearance of at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states that alternately control a person's behavior, accompanied by memory impairment for important information not explained by ordinary forgetfulness,that's why the OGB is retarded.

Except , that he doesn't show two different personalities (in same game state) as much we know could simply be affected by old god soul thanks to he has more insight and knowledge.So OGB Kieran may be just slightly different than normal Kieran due to Old god soul.Hell even if showed to possess 2 distinctive personalities it still wouldn't make him retarded.  

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Except , that he doesn't show two different personalities (in same game state) as much we know could simply be affected by old god soul thanks to he has more insight and knowledge.So OGB Kieran may be just slightly different than normal Kieran due to Old god soul.Hell even if showed to possess 2 distinctive personalities it still wouldn't make him retarded.  

Yes they are two distinctive personalities,one which belong to him and the other which belong to that critter of Urthemiel

Remove the soul and one of the two personalities is gone,and once again those insights do not belong to him those are from Urthemiel ,  it is Urthemiel who give some of his speech.

[TheKomandorShepard]

yes they are two distinctive personalities,one which belong to him and the other which belong to that critter of Urthemiel.

And you judged it on what basis, and how do you know what kind of personality Urthemiel had ?

 

 

Remove the soul and one of the two personalities is gone,and once again those insights do not belong to him those are from Urthemiel and they are gone when it is removed.

From where you took that information?

[Qun00]

Well it isn't that she wanted to cook and eat him.

From what i recall she said she wanted to raise him and child would be unharmed , of course whether you trust her is another thing but if we metagame we know Kieran is fine.

Physical harm is irrelevant to the concept of being used by someone else. Nobody says "I feel used... but at least s/he didn't kill me."

Treating a human being like an object/tool is wrong in one way or another.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Physical harm is irrelevant to the concept of being used by someone else. Nobody says "I feel used... but at least s/he didn't kill me."

Treating a human being like an object/tool is wrong in one way or another.

I would argue here, every country treats you as a object/tool rather than individual and thanks to that they are running.

 

I don't think that Kieran felt used by Morrigan, or at least he didn't show any sign of feeling that way, though i guess you are talking more from dao standpoint .  

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Well it isn't that she wanted to cook and eat him.

 

From what i recall she said she wanted to raise him and child would be unharmed , of course whether you trust her is another thing but if we metagame we know Kieran is fine.

 

I doubt many parents with high expectations who choose to force on their own desires on progeny wanted to cook and eat their children. Did Dorian's parents wanted to cook and eat him ? No, they expected him to live up to their legacy and when Dorian refused, they decided to use a blood ritual to turn him into a compliant vegetable to accomplish that task. Who is to say that Morrigan might not attempt such a thing ?

 

You are simply being absurd and deflecting the issue at hand which is forcing a child to live up to a legacy you want them to instead of simply raising their children and letting them live on their own terms when they are old enough to leave the nest. Morrigan clearly did not intend for OG Kieran to be anywhere but within her reach, her sight and her control. Its a different story with normal Kieran though.

 

Which is why if you roleplay as a Warden who believes in freedom of choice and ethics, you have to say no to the Dark Ritual.

[Qun00]

I would argue here, every country treats you as a object/tool rather than individual and thanks to that they are running.

I don't think that Kieran felt used by Morrigan, or at least he didn't show any sign of feeling that way, though i guess you are talking more from dao standpoint .

OGB Kieran will only fully grasp what was done to him and why when he is older. Then again, Flemeth has already taken it from him so he won't have as much reason to care.

From DAO's standpoint, yes. That is when the decision is made, after all.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I doubt many parents with high expectations who choose to force on their own desires on progeny wanted to cook and eat their children. Did Dorian's parents wanted to cook and eat him ? No, they expected him to live up to their legacy and when Dorian refused, they decided to use a blood ritual to turn him into a compliant vegetable to accomplish that task. Who is to say that Morrigan might not attempt such a thing ?

 

You are simply being absurd and deflecting the issue at hand which is forcing a child to live up to a legacy you want them to instead of simply raising their children and letting them live on their own terms when they are old enough to leave the nest. Morrigan clearly did not intend for OG Kieran to be anywhere but within her reach, her sight and her control. Its a different story with normal Kieran though.

 

Which is why if you roleplay as a Warden who believes in freedom of choice and ethics, you have to say no to the Dark Ritual.

 

Most of parents have expectations imposed on their children (even concering social, moral or religious matters), Dorian father pretty much tried cook his brain so pretty much i was close. It can be said about every parent in Thedas , what if they will try to use blood magic to force their child to meet their expectations.

 

Well considering that we don't know what Morrigan planed to do with child if something at all other than just preserve old god soul, we don't know if he had free choice or not.

 

Well if kid doesn't exist he doesn't have freedom of choice either way if he is alive he may have freedom or not (as i said that is true pretty much for every human).

 

 

OGB Kieran will only fully grasp what was done to him and why when he is older. Then again, Flemeth has already taken it from him so he won't have as much reason to care.

From DAO's standpoint, yes. That is when the decision is made, after all.

I don't know how Kieran would think about it , but i personally wouldn't care.

[Qun00]

Most of parents have expectations imposed on their children (even concering social, moral or religious matters), Dorian father pretty much tried cook his brain so pretty much i was close. It can be said about every parent in Thedas , what if they will try to use blood magic to force their child to meet their expectations.

Well considering that we don't know what Morrigan planed to do with child if something at all other than just preserve old god soul, we don't know if he had free choice or not.

Well if kid doesn't exist he doesn't have freedom of choice either way if he is alive he may have freedom or not (as i said that is true pretty much for every human).

Comparing ordinary situations to an extraordinary one is a poor argument. Most parents in Thedas aren't mages. And social/religious expectations still allow the possibility of choice, while Kieran had it made for him before he was even born.

It's just as bad as the "a country uses people too" line, considering that people still do choose how they'd like to contribute. More importantly, a mother should never look at her child as an object.

As for what did Morrigan plan for him? "Nothing" isn't the answer, that's for sure. I will quote, "Kieran had a destiny and now it's in Flemeth's hands".

Regardless, the boy was mentally altered in the process and he never asked for that.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Comparing ordinary situations to an extraordinary one is a poor argument. Most parents in Thedas aren't mages. And social/religious expectations still allow the possibility of choice, while Kieran had it made for him before he was even born.

It's just as bad as the "a country uses people too" line, considering that people still do choose how they'd like to contribute. More importantly, a mother should never look at her child as an object.

As for what did Morrigan plan for him? "Nothing" isn't the answer, that's for sure. I will quote, "Kieran had a destiny and now it's in Flemeth's hands".

Regardless, the boy was mentally altered in the process and he never asked for that.

 

That they aren't mages doesn't mean that they can hire mage to do that.Same for Kieran fate , there is nowhere said Kieran will be Morrigan slave as she herself never specified what she expected from him.

 

So may Kieran look above.Well quite a number of mothers (and parents) do that , especially among nobility.

 

That is just vague statment she never specified what she meant by his destiny, that could as well mean that Kieran was destin to accomplish great things.

 

Every person is menally altered and they don't chose that is pretty much aim of upbringing, kid didn't even had personality to alter it is just he developed his personality with old god soul as one of factors in his life.

[Qun00]

Again with the forced comparisons. We're going in circles here.

Take it from where I left, Bayonet Hipshot. All yours.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Again with the forced comparisons. We're going in circles here.

Take it from where I left, Bayonet Hipshot. All yours.

There are no forced comparisons, it is just how world works and comparisons serve as proof of that.

[Qun00]

There are no forced comparisons, it is just how world works and comparisons serve as proof of that.

Shame that we're talking about Thedas, then.

And comparisons aren't automatically legitimate. Try putting a little thought into them next time.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Shame that we're talking about Thedas, then.

And comparisons aren't automatically legitimate. Try putting a little thought into them next time.

And Thedas isn't world , Thedas was shaped in the image of real world (even if it sometimes was clumsily done) just with extra fantasy elements like magic or new species.

 

No they aren't automatically legitimate but my comparisons concerning child were correct because same things are done by parents all over the world and every parent have potential to force their expectations on their children.   

[Qun00]

An extraordinary situation can only be compared to another extraordinary situation.

Regardless, I already know you're a rather stubborn guy and this will be dragged for pages with both parties wasting their time.

[TheKomandorShepard]

An extraordinary situation can only be compared to another extraordinary situation. Regardless, I already know you're a rather stubborn guy and this will be dragged for pages with both parties wasting their time.

Not rly , we are discussing Morrigan potentially trying to enforce her expectations on her child what isn't exclusive to this example.

[AFA]

In my canon run, my warden did the ritual (he was a blood mage anyways, so no biggie with the morals).

 

I did an Awakening playthrough where I didn't do the ritual (Al made the sacrifice). Witch Hunt becomes much more powerful when you are chasing Morrigan to get your love child back, rather than old god baby. She was my ex in that playthrough (I got the ring, then ended up with Leliana) which added another dimension.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

And you judged it on what basis, and how do you know what kind of personality Urthemiel had ?


From where you took that information?

Simple by make a comparision between the human and the OGB.
The OGB is the same as human Kieran except when that soul influence prevail on him.
When it is removed he return to be in term of personality like human kieran.
It is Urthemiel who sometime prevail and speak at kieran place.
Their souls are not merged

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Pretty much i agree with Qun00 and Bayonet Hypshot i see the Dark ritual as the anti_freedom

[TheKomandorShepard]

Simple by make a comparision between the human and the OGB.
The OGB is the same as human Kieran except when that soul influence prevail on him.
When it is removed he return to be in term of personality like human kieran.
It is Urthemiel who sometime prevail and speak at kieran place.
Their souls are not merged

Comparing Human and OGB to determine that Kieran has 2 different personalities in same worldsate is pointless because OGB developed his personality with different factor affecting  his life, so once again point is moot because this may be OGB true personality .