Besides all that, I'm leery on allowing an Old God to survive. These things cause Blights, so I'm not clear as to what the value is in letting Urthemiel live.
Yep with Loghain i avoid the whole ritual affair which is unpleasant for me,and allow to both Flemeth and SOlas to become more powerful.
Yep with Loghain i avoid the whole ritual affair which is unpleasant for me,and all this to let Urthemiel live? Are we serious he need only to die.
With this
Spoilerand yes i do believe that Morrigan has received her punishment in DAI,the soul is removed from her son,basically she has conceived him for selfish desire(is even more of a punishment if she used Loghain or AListair cosmic justice) and now all her expectations are destroyed,she has only make her own son suffer ,a failure like the whole ritual affair,for what i have listed to me the only legit Kieran is the human one,because stupid old god deserve only to die i see no value in that lizard.
Morrigan doesn't strike me as particularly selfish in her desire to keep Urthemiel alive, only a bit ignorant about the potential consequences of her... environmentalism? Like someone who wants to protect endangered tigers by trying to keep them in their house. Like sure, you could keep them alive that way but that's not very safe for anyone.
edit: I suppose she's selfish in that she throws a right fit if you don't help her.
Before I played Origins (I started with Inquisition), I thought US would make a good and dramatic end to the story... But then I played Origins and boom, I changed my mind. I played a quite vengeful but somehow kind female Cousland who became friend with Morrigan and romanced Leliana. Morrigan was there at the beginning and my warden trusted and understood her, so she accepted the DR. Plus she didn't want to be like the other grey wardens and die that easily. She also didn't want to leave Leliana (poor girl, everyone dies around her) and she thought she would be more useful alive than dead and gone.
So yeah, pretty selfish, like Morrigan -but who isn't ?
I also liked playing awakening with my Cousland... the meeting with Howe was pretty cool.
This being said, I still hesitate between both. The US is so epic.
So yeah, pretty selfish, like Morrigan -but who isn't ?
My Warden she is not selfish,well only time she was selfish was when she give the middle finger to Morrigan,it was not about the Old god i don't even care of that dragon,it was about Morrigan,you're being secretive with me all the time? Take that you lost 1 year without gain nothing and i survive as well,the satisfaction 
!
To all the Ultimate sacrifice Wardens,well done German soldiers salute all of these brave heroes.
No, it's a win win based completely meta game knowledge. There is literally no reason to not do it outside of rping which is what I said.
Bioware games were never meant for choices with consequences this is why the DR do not backfire or give a payback
(you have an alternative content not more content)
It was a get out of death card at the cost of the moral compass of your hero(you refuse to take responsability as a general of the army),it has it's value but it doesn't appeal for the sort of hero that i prefer to roleplay.
I saw the redemption and the Ultimate sacrifice to be a more honorable route and more fitting for my protagonist (Prince Human noble)
However, it seems to be all part of a greater plan and longer story, hence why we'll only find out what she will do with this power in the next games.
Wow, this thread became a cluster ****. Let's see if it's okay for me to still post this without someone biting my neck off.
Based on many playthroughs I've had and my own tastes, I favor the Dark Ritual. My favored ending state is a solo King Alistair, so Loghain isn't around to be Archdemon chow. I like Kieran, so I want to make sure he exists(which I'm aware he can do without the DR). I like the development of Flemeth and then Solas gaining Uthamel's soul. so the Dark Ritual is used to make this happen.
However, it seems to be all part of a greater plan and longer story, hence why we'll only find out what she will do with this power in the next games.
She will do nothing. Solas will do nothing. It's over. As long as the Dark Ritual was only one of several ending choices, dividing the lore between world states where the Old God soul does and does not exist at the same time, this entire subplot will never amount to anything. Flemeth removing the soul from Kieran was the end of the road for this whole thing - now the soul doesn't exist in anyone's world states, and the writers can move on to the plots that affect every player. Ritual, Sacrifice, it doesn't really matter anymore at this point. We won't be seeing our Wardens again either way, even if yours is still alive, and the soul has fizzled out into nothing.
Notice how they learned their lesson from DAO - DA2 and DAI, for all the inner branching they do, eventually funnel back into a single ending (or with variations so vague and generic that they can be easily handwaved), and neither offer the promise of some major world-breaking change that can only be addressed again in the future by taking This Very Specific Optional Path. Major branching endings are interesting, but ultimately unsustainable for an ongoing series where events tie so closely together like this.
But it definitely isn't something a true Grey Warden would do.
Which is rather clever actually: Why did Flemeth choose to save two novice Wardens instead of Duncan? Because experimented Wardens would never have accepted the Dark Ritual, while newcomers had yet to be molded into well-disciplined Grey Wardens and were much more convinceable.
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Major branching endings are interesting, but ultimately unsustainable for an ongoing series where events tie so closely together like this.
That's true, but there are workarounds, like introducing substitutes who take on the dead or never-born characters' role: take the Mass Effect Story for instance: Wrex can die on Virmire, in which case Wreav act as a substitute and allows the story to progress with an Urdnot leader for the Krogan; the Rachni Queen can be killed, in which case she's substituted by a Breeder; there's always a council, whether they are survivors of the Battle of the Citadel or new members elected after their predecessors' demise.
The Dragon Age series itself has used this trick: there's always a Warden-Commander in Ferelden, regardless of Origin's protagonist ultimate fate.
So bringing Kieran as a major character isn't that difficult: write a storyline involving, say, a young mage knowledgeable in ancient Lore, and use either Kieran or a substitute character who plays essentially the same role. In fact, I'm surprised that they didn't use that trick in Inquisition (in case of DR or romanced Morrigan, you get Kieran, otherwise, you get a slightly younger-than-Kieran girl conceived while Morrigan was on the run so everyone gets the "Motherhood mellowed Morrigan and made her less selfish" plot-line)
LOL everyone who chose sacrifice died for nothing. Choose DR. You get a way better scene with Flemeth and your Warden and Alistair or Loghain get to live with the choice not backfiring.
) or for the Morrigan/Flemeth telenovelas
Which is rather clever actually: Why did Flemeth choose to save two novice Wardens instead of Duncan? Because experimented Wardens would never have accepted the Dark Ritual, while newcomers had yet to be molded into well-disciplined Grey Wardens and were much more convinceable.
Cure Calling. No drawbacks whatsoever apparent. Really no reason not to.
The entire DAO experience was build more around the Ultimate Sacrifice and the sacrifice of the Wardens,there was no other ending i could have choose for that game
Likewise. "In death, sacrifice" is what makes the Wardens stand out as a group. How rare is it in a computer game that there is actually a price to pay for the powers handed out like they're free candy on Halloween? As someone who always craves for a story to be something different from the usual powertrip without consequences or accountability, I'd loathe for the Calling to be cured because that would invalidate the whole premise of the Wardens, the one interesting thing about them. A good character death can be a very powerful storytelling experience, and that is what the sacrifice was for me. Emotional, but not tragic. Immensely satisfying.
I do not play game for survival(and i'm mainly a fan of shooter
which is sadly what the DA franchise is all about
Which is rather clever actually: Why did Flemeth choose to save two novice Wardens instead of Duncan? Because experimented Wardens would never have accepted the Dark Ritual, while newcomers had yet to be molded into well-disciplined Grey Wardens and were much more convinceable.
she saved a young Warden because the senior aren't suitable.
Heh, I'm glad I'm not the only one who by now has that impression that Bioware primarily cares about a small circle of NPC supermages. "This franchise is about Thedas, not the player character" is a convenient smokescreen for that. At least the Warden has the option of going out under the player's control instead being disappeared. On-screen, in a blaze of glory, saving the world, and in defiance of becoming Morrigan's obedient tool. So in retrospect, the sacrifice is even more appealing in my eye than it was back in the day, not less.This strong impression that it's not really supposed to be my story is the prime reason that so totally tanked Inquisition's endgame for me.
Likewise. "In death, sacrifice" is what makes the Wardens stand out as a group. How rare is it in a computer game that there is actually a price to pay for the powers handed out like they're free candy on Halloween? As someone who always craves for a story to be something different from the usual powertrip without consequences or accountability, I'd loathe for the Calling to be cured because that would invalidate the whole premise of the Wardens, the one interesting thing about them. A good character death can be a very powerful storytelling experience, and that is what the sacrifice was for me. Emotional, but not tragic. Immensely satisfying.
Besides all that, I'm leery on allowing an Old God to survive. These things cause Blights, so I'm not clear as to what the value is in letting Urthemiel live.
Well based on what Morrigan says, I believe she harbors some hope that saving Urthemiel will present the opportunity to break the blight cycle, rather than continue to see one blight after another another render chunks of the continent uninhabitable. Even after they run out of archdemons, we can expect incursions driven by self-willed darkspawn as time goes by.
I do agree that this is the true Grey Warden's path. Choosing the DR means your character isn't willing to pay any price to end the Blight.
It's true, and in a way, it's a good thing that the game gives you this option:
Dragon Age Origins has the same problem than earlier Bioware games: straight-up evil choices are often stupid choices:
It makes sense for a ruthless yet pragmatic and perspicacious Warden to demand explanations from Zathrian after learning about the Keeper's deception and vendetta; to save the Circle mages; to stay and defend Redclife then look for a way to save Connor without sacrificing anyone then look for a way to heal Eamon; to fix problems in Denerim in order to build up goodwill before the Landsmeet, to spend time getting to know his/her traveling companions...
The game's plot is structured in such a way that more often than not, the choices with the greatest payoff down the road happen to be the chivalrous one, meaning that a smart selfish Warden is pretty much going to take the same decisions as a goody-two-shoes Warden.
The Dark Ritual is the moment when you get to establish your Warden's temperament in no uncertain terms: chose the Ritual, and even if your Warden brokered peace between the Dalish and werewolves, saved Eamon, Connor and Redclife, saved the kidnaped elves and was adored by his/her companions as the epitome of stalwartness, s/he is established for good as a selfish person, willing to dabble in forces s/he barely understands in order to save his/her own skin in the short term. Duncan's final decision was a mistake: he chose to induct into the order someone who had the strength but lacked the virtues and in the end got to live and enjoy the ill-gained fruits of his/her selfishness
The Dark Ritual is the moment when you get to establish your Warden's temperament in no uncertain terms: chose the Ritual, and even if your Warden brokered peace between the Dalish and werewolves, saved Eamon, Connor and Redclife, saved the kidnaped elves and was adored by his/her companions as the epitome of stalwartness, s/he is established for good as a selfish person, willing to dabble in forces s/he barely understands in order to save his/her own skin in the short term. Duncan's final decision was a mistake: he chose to induct into the order someone who had the strength but lacked the virtues and in the end got to live and enjoy the ill-gained fruits of his/her selfishness
I call it being smart rather than selfish after all why commit pointless suicide unless you want to die or don't trust morrigan. I compare it to killing your enemy instead jumping with him from the cliff.
I do agree that this is the true Grey Warden's path. Choosing the DR means your character isn't willing to pay any price to end the Blight.
That said, I don't think it destroys the theme completely. In the next Blight, slaying the Archdemon still will require someone's death in exchange.
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