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[Hair Serious Business]

In both DAO and DA2 I was all for "Free mages" and very anti-templar myself,because in both DAO and especially DA2 templars were nothing more then abusive high-nose pricks...but in DA:I...

Now put how "free mages" act.Does any of mages who are free ever proved that they deserve their freedom?What is first thing we all noticed? Blood magic,mages who became bigger pricks then templars in past games,mages who wishes to repeat history,mages who justify themselves till end!

Ignore all fact about mages rebellion and just go straight for "demons" the "true enemy of mage"...though after DA:I and especially Solas's personal mission I wonder who is enemy of who in this story!? As Solas once said in conversation that spirts become demons once their purpose is twisted and guess what and who constantly twists spirts and creates new demons? F*cking Mages! I cried real tears when I did Solas's personal mission,it was way beyond sad.Why? I saw spirit called by force and made against it's own will to kill and serve mages that summoned it until in end it became so corrupted that it ended up twisted in "Pride Demon" that you needed to destroy.I saw that same spirit thanking you in tears because you freed it before it died,then I saw fool mages that summoned it still justifying themselves and playing victims of this story. This really made me think hard about whole "demons possesion thing".If demons started to exist only if spirit was corrupted,that means that all these demons are nothing more then corrupted spirits thanks to mages.So seriously I wonder are demons threat to mages,or mages to them since they came to exist thanks to mage's foolishness!?

I know one thing as far as I go,templars from DA2 are right now rainbows and sunshines compared to mages.All sympathy I had for mages is dead Solas's personal quest and discovery of how poor spirits became twisted thanks to just one man's stupidity was that last limit that made me completely unable to feel any sympathy about mages anymore.These guys corrupted lands with their greed with darkspawn,these guys made demons,these same guys keep f*cking everything up and when it comes to these guys I'm now more then happy to put Vivienne as Divine because worst deserve worst and my sympathy for mages and their "cause" has disappeared thanks to mages in DA:I and to "new discovery" of how demons came to be,because just imagining all these spirits that went trough all pain because of men's greed that in end twisted them and corrupted them against their will is more then enough to make me vomit! Thank you mages for this,real thanks 

[line_genrou]

I remember a codex in DAO saying tha mages usually turned to blood magic/became abominations when they felt cornered while being hunted down by templars, so they used that as a last desperate resort

DA2 being **** crapped on all that when pretty much every mage you encounter became a blood mage

[Shaftell]

You know what's really weird? I have been pro mage since DAO. I have played DAO and DA2 many many times, and I always stick pro mage. That's how stubborn of a player I was. DAI finally did it for me. I am on my second playthrough and I am doing a Pro Templar run for the very first time in this franchise. It actually feels good to be on the different team for once.

[Barquiel]

That's how I felt about the templars, they have pretty much asked for their fate imo. That being said...Kirkwall mages certainly do their best to give the rest of the mages a bad name

[Hair Serious Business]

You know what's really weird? I have been pro mage since DAO. I have played DAO and DA2 many many times, and I always stick pro mage. That's how stubborn of a player I was. DAI finally did it for me. I am on my second playthrough and I am doing a Pro Templar run for the very first time in this franchise. It actually feels good to be on the different team for once.

Yeah same here and templar's quest is epic.

 

I remember a codex in DAO saying tha mages usually turned to blood magic/became abominations when they felt cornered while being hunted down by templars, so they used that as a last desperate resort

DA2 being **** crapped on all that when pretty much every mage you encounter became a blood mage

Still demons came to be by mages first hand.Demons originally were just spirits who later became twisted because of men's greed pretty much.So all "demon threat" and "fear of possession" thin is actually mage's fault because they created that threat themselves.

 

That's how I felt about the templars, they have pretty much asked for their fate imo. That being said...Kirkwall mages certainly do their best to give the rest of the mages a bad name 

 

Yeah DA2 templars really were pricks but in DA:I mages take that place as No.1.

[X Equestris]

I'm unable to feel sympathy for their leadership in DAI, that's for sure. Fiona made some absolutely stupid decisions, and they adversely impacted the mages that were still with her.

[Hair Serious Business]

I'm unable to feel sympathy for their leadership in DAI, that's for sure. Fiona made some absolutely stupid decisions, and they adversely impacted the mages that were still with her.

Ugh,never liked here even before DA:I when I read the book I was just "Die already" when I saw her back in DA:I my desire to kill her grew even bigger.

[Laughing_Man]

*facepalm*

 

So Solas was very sad and angry that his spirit friend was corrupted by a few stupid mages, big fracking deal.

 

What about the horror stories of children being abused, abducted from their mothers, mages raped and abused, tranquility used as punishment and leverage for just about everything, mobs lynching mages due to chantry propaganda, etc.

 

The Mage - Templar issue is too complicated and involved, both from moral and practical standpoints, for you to simply come and hand wave it all away, and simply use one anecdotal story to vilify the entirety of mage kind that had nothing to do with it.

 

I find your post childish in the extreme.

[Urazz]

I felt sympathy for both the regular people that were mages and the regular templar soldiers.  It felt more like the leaders on both sides were corrupt or complete idiots. When I side with the mages, I conscript them since Fiona doesn't get replaced but I have the Templars as partners when I side with them as they can get Ser Barras as their leader if he survives.  If Fiona could have been replaced as leader of the mages, then I would've been perfectly fine with making the mages equal partners instead of conscripting them.

[Hair Serious Business]

*facepalm*

 

So Solas was very sad and angry that his spirit friend was corrupted by a few stupid mages, big fracking deal.

 

The Mage - Templar issue is too complicated and involved, both from moral and practical standpoints, for you to simply come and hand wave it all away, and simply use one anecdotal story to vilify the entirety of mage kind that had nothing to do with it.

 

I find your post childish in the extreme.

Demons came to be from spirits! Only way for spirit to become demon was if some dear a$$ of a person came and twisted their purpose with their own selfish agenda! 

So how about you think then who corrupted so many spirits and turned them in demons in first place! Beside it is not just what we found out thanks to Solas it is whole mage thing that makes me more wanting to side with templars then them in DA:I!

[berelinde]

It was damage control, really. The writers did such a fantastic job of convincing DA2 players that templars were nothing but a huge bag of ducks, they might have gone a bit far in the other direction this time. There are still enough random templars (not even red templars, just random schmucks) mistaking shovels for staves and killing whoever's holding it to show the stupidity of both sides. Fiona did something colossally stupid, yes, but is her shortsightedness worse than Lord Seeker Lucius's? I'd say they're on par.

 

It was kinda nice to see the mage/templar conflict more as a choice between stripes  or spots rather than between black and white. In DA2, I couldn't side with the templars without being filled with self-loathing. In DAI, I will probably always prefer the mages, but I have a much easier time liking my characters who go with the templars. 

 

The mage-templar conflict was never one that could be solved by choosing a side. It's too complicated, with too much history to consider on both sides, for it to be a simple decision. One might argue that an outsider might not have any right to make a decision about it at all... but one might also argue that anyone who has a stake in the matter is already biased. Both views are right... and both views are wrong.

[Aaleel]

Really didn't change my thought on mages.  The entire game was how a group could go wrong under certain circumstances.  Mages with demons, Templars with red lyrium, and Wardens with the taint.  

 

I really don't see why I would look upon mages more negatively than the other groups.

[Laughing_Man]

Demons came to be from spirits! Only way for spirit to become demon was if some dear a$$ of a person came and twisted their purpose with their own selfish agenda! 

So how about you think then who corrupted so many spirits and turned them in demons in first place! Beside it is not just what we found out thanks to Solas it is whole mage thing that makes me more wanting to side with templars then them in DA:I!

 

No. Spirits *can* be corrupted, but there is nothing to indicate that most demons are not the way they are because they originally embody qualities like desire, pride, rage, etc.

 

In any case, this had very little bearing on the Templar - Mage issue. Besides, Templars care about a spirit's farewell even less than the average mage.

 

In essence, the problem is a problem between mortals, the spirit world comes second at best.

[Ashagar]

I felt sorry to a point for the ordinary rebel mages and Templars on both sides but it seems that the sane reasonable leaders on both sides got killed at the conclave or murdered after surviving the conclave so they wouldn't interfere with Corypheus's plans.

[Aaleel]

It was damage control, really. The writers did such a fantastic job of convincing DA2 players that templars were nothing but a huge bag of ducks, they might have gone a bit far in the other direction this time. There are still enough random templars (not even red templars, just random schmucks) mistaking shovels for staves and killing whoever's holding it to show the stupidity of both sides. Fiona did something colossally stupid, yes, but is her shortsightedness worse than Lord Seeker Lucius's? I'd say they're on par.

 

It was kinda nice to see the mage/templar conflict more as a choice between stripes  or spots rather than between black and white. In DA2, I couldn't side with the templars without being filled with self-loathing. In DAI, I will probably always prefer the mages, but I have a much easier time liking my characters who go with the templars. 

 

The mage-templar conflict was never one that could be solved by choosing a side. It's too complicated, with too much history to consider on both sides, for it to be a simple decision. One might argue that an outsider might not have any right to make a decision about it at all... but one might also argue that anyone who has a stake in the matter is already biased. Both views are right... and both views are wrong.

 

I really don't see how so many people say DA2 was anti Templar.  Every mage you met for the most part in DA2 was crazy for no reason.  When the mage that escaped from the circle came home and the first thing he could think of was to kill his wife I was pretty much done with the whole thing.  Won't even go into Orsino.

[frostajulie]

Funny how once again blanket generalizations are used to judge an entire people. My inquisitor was a mage Solas was a mage, Viv and Dorian were mages, My Hawke was a mage my HoF, Morrigan, Wynne, First Enchanter Irving were all mages none of them did anything bad but you have just tarred them with the same brush.  Douchecanoes are on both sides of the issue and I am still hardcore pro mage.

 

Why should any mage have to prove they deserve their freedom?  Have you ever done so?  Did any non mage character ever have to prove they were deserving of freedom before earning it?  No.

 

I can see and appreciate seeing the grey in an issue that has never been black and white but all you did is childishly switch extremes.

[berelinde]

I felt sorry to a point for the ordinary rebel mages and Templars on both sides but it seems that the sane reasonable leaders on both sides got killed at the conclave or murdered after surviving the conclave so they wouldn't interfere with Corypheus's plans.

You're probably right. One of the templars in Haven, Lysette, says "Faith and dedication don't get you closer to the important meetings," and Cassandra harrumphs that Chancellor Roderick is a peon, but as bumbling and incompetent as he is, he's all that's left. Same probably goes for the mages.

[berelinde]

Funny how once again blanket generalizations are used to judge an entire people. My inquisitor was a mage Solas was a mage, Viv and Dorian were mages, My Hawke was a mage my HoF, Morrigan, Wynne, First Enchanter Irving were all mages none of them did anything bad but you have just tarred them with the same brush.  Douchecanoes are on both sides of the issue and I am still hardcore pro mage.

 

Why should any mage have to prove they deserve their freedom?  Have you ever done so?  Did any non mage character ever have to prove they were deserving of freedom before earning it?  No.

 

I can see and appreciate seeing the grey in an issue that has never been black and white but all you did is childishly switch extremes.

I don't know why the forum isn't letting me like this post, but I would if I could!

[Vicious]

Their leadership has ALWAYS been the problem.

 

The circle tower in ferelden is a good example, you've got a good grand enchanter, a good knight commander "if the grand enchanter says it's safe then it's safe." ('Shut up Cullen.') and yet their leadership still got possessed by a pride demon and went right off the deep end. Yet unpossessed rank and file mages were were aplenty.

 

 

DA2 same thing, Orsino unable to protect his charges, turning a blind eye to psychos and blood mages that would inevitably get caught thus leaving him even MORE unable to protect his charges, etc. Up there in the top 10 worst grand enchanters i'm sure.

 

and DA:I, same thing. Rank and file Mages, you got good apples 'not too sure about this tevinter thing,' bad apples 'mages must rule all!' and of course, a completely idiotic leadership 'lets become slaves and servants to magisters cause thats totally a different and better idea than we had before that in no way can backfire!'

 

 

 

And unlike, say, DA2 where Cullen openly rebelled against Melissan err i mean Meredith and was joined by his fellow Templars, Circle Mages don't seem to rebel against bad leadership in any of the 3 games. They may not like it, but they don't do anything. Makes me sad.

[The_Last_Griffon]

Not all mages or templars are bad, so why do people think that this is a black/white topic? It is not. Not every mage is a power-hungry, blood mage abomination, and not every templar is a paranoid, corrupt, lyrium-addict. There are baddies on both sides, both have their flaws. 

[xJLxKing]

I think they need to make a firm line on just how bad Blood Magic can get. Right now, I feel like the Mages can actually justify the use of Blood Magic. Yes, mages have the potential to do a lot of harm but a person intention usually are caused by what happened as they grew up. I'm sorry, but if you force me to leave my family at a young age, put me in a tower where I can not do anything, get  abused, and still don't get freedom, I can understand how the emotionally and psychological effect can affect ones ability to decide to use blood magic.

 

Also, blood magic really needs to be more unique. It really doesn't feel dangerous nor strong, neither gameplay wise or lore wise.  When they decide to do this, it should be better. 

 

 

ALSO, they need to stop using...things that are on both ends of the spectrum. Why is it that ever order whether Grey Warden, Mages, Templars, kindoms, the LEADER is always stupid or corrupt.

[line_genrou]

The story says that the maker created the spirits, disappointed with how they were stagnant and had no creativity, he abandoned them to create living beings

Some spirits became jealous and while observing the living beings and the dreams they had, they noticed how they have dark feelings, so they preyed on them and transformed

that is how the demons came to be

 

Read more of the lore in DA

 

Spirits become corrupted if they are teared away from their purpose, but mages had nothing to do with every demon that exists

[Vicious]

The story says that the maker created the spirits and he abandoned them to create living beings

Some spirits became jealous and while observing the living beings and the dreams they had, they noticed how they have dark feelings 

that is how the demons came to be

 

Read more of the lore in DA

 

Spirits become corrupted if they are teared away from their purpose, but mages had nothing to do with every demon that exists

 

 

spirits were around before the maker was a gleam in andraste's eye

[X Equestris]

spirits were around before the maker was a gleam in andraste's eye

That presumes that the Maker doesn't exist, and we simply don't know that.

[Vicious]

That presumes that the Maker doesn't exist, and we simply don't know that.

 

i'm thinking... the only evidence for his existence really is the old gods being sealed underground, and there's several other explanations for that as well.

 

Then again Tevinter worshipped some kind of maker god, although they didn't call him that... but Tevinter are still comparatively young to the elves who had their own gods.