515 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashagar]

Yes he was the only assassin that didn't make it to the earlier assassination attempt as planned. the Archduke and his wife were ironically on their way to see the surviving victims from the earlier attack when he happened to come across them.

[X Equestris]

Gavrilo Princip was one that killed prince Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife while there were riding in car as I recall and that later ended up with first with ultimatum however Serbia didn't agreed to once condition of ultimatum and as such WW1 started.
(Don't study Architecture in Europe people...history is just slave-driver ._.)

Princip was part of the Black Hand terrorist group, which favored Bosnia being part of Serbia. Another member of the group had thrown a bomb at the Archduke's automobile, but it bounced off and exploded under the car behind them, injuring several of the Archduke's guards. It was a sheer stroke of luck that Princip killed the Archduke and his wife later in the day. He had already been preparing to go to ground.

[Ryriena]

Princip was part of the Black Hand terrorist group, which favored Bosnia being part of Serbia. Another member of the group had thrown a bomb at the Archduke's automobile, but it bounced off and exploded under the car behind them, injuring several of the Archduke's guards. It was a sheer stroke of luck that Princip killed the Archduke and his wife later in the day. He had already been preparing to go to ground.

This is also what's ironic about this assissian tell.

[Lord Raijin]

Killing innocents and blowing up chantry for your own agenda with 0 regret or remorse that later will start war is terrorism! 

And Anders is terrorist who with his rash act of stupidity started war not to mention all people and perhaps even little kids that died in that explosion because you never know who was else was in Chantry when it went boom! It would be political assassination if Anders killed just Meridith,blew up her templars and etc. but he killed one Grand Cleric with all innocent people in Chantry that had nothing to do with problems that happened in city...Elthina did had something with it but all these peoples that died in explosion? Theirs only fault is being in Chantry at that time!

So once again harming innocent peoples for your own beliefs,agenda or etc. is just pure terrorism not political assassination! 

 

Go back to read my post and you'll understand. The true act of terrorism lays stationary in the city of Val Royeaux in the Grand Cathedral. grumpy old ladies with toilet hats thinking that they have the Makers given right to dictate how people should and shouldn't live... and indoctrinating people to their thinking. No wonder the Maker wants no part of them. The Chantry is a fraud. They think that they're doing the makers work, but they're not.

 

[Hair Serious Business]

This is also what's ironic about this assissian tell.

How about we end damn history class and get back to this thread and game. As I said studying Architecture in Europe is pure slave-driver! You end up knowing better how many Ottoman Sultan had wives rather then knowing your own name.So let's skip Europe history class and get back to Theads history instead.

[MisterJB]

Deciding based on history as opposed to innovation is a matter of preference. Not a logical conclusion. If anything, one could argue that because of the heated conflict history magic has had in Thedas, Thedosians mundanes can't be trusted to police mages, especially since anti-magic femjesus mantra is being shoved in their heads.

We can also choose to keep the mage free and have risk of abominations as the side effect. So far all you've shown is your preference, not a conclusion.

I was pointing out the fact societies in Thedas have developed along these lines which have created distinct groups based upon that genetic factor which is magic. Such realities must be taken into account if one intends to decide what is best for Thedas.

The possibility some non-mages might be more dangerous than mages or more corrupt does not change the fact mages are a threat that needs to be contained. Therefore, even if dealing with mages won't make the wold 100% safe, it will make it safer.

 

And mages can't be trusted to police themselves. People tend to ignore crimes committed by their group against members of other groups. We see it happen in Thedas with humans and elves and we saw the mages ignoring as their fellow mages decided to leave and go conquer the Hinterlands.

[X Equestris]

Go back to read my post and you'll understand. The true act of terrorism lays stationary in the city of Val Royeaux in the Grand Cathedral. grumpy old ladies with toilet hats thinking that they have the Makers given right to dictate how people should and shouldn't live... and indoctrinating people to their thinking. No wonder the Maker wants no part of them. The Chantry is a fraud. They think that they're doing the makers work, but they're not.
 

One can't deny that blowing up a building and killing hundreds in the name of a political objective is terrorism. It doesn't matter if it's justified or not.

[MisterJB]

Really, you think all Mages would do something like this is what wrong.

Seriously, first you post a link to a study that proved power corrupted and then, when someone turns that against mages, it suddenly becomes "no, no, not all mages are like that."

Ok, fine. Not all Templars would abuse mages, therefore the Circle is fine. Your logic.

[Lord Raijin]

One can't deny that blowing up a building and killing hundreds in the name of a political objective is terrorism. It doesn't matter if it's justified or not.

You don't think declaring an Exalted Marches isn't an act of terrorism? Let's talk about how many innocent peopled died then.

[MisterJB]

You don't think declaring an Exalted Marches isn't an act of terrorism? Let's talk about how many innocent peopled died then.

No, it's an act of war. There is a difference.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Seriously, first you post a link to a study that proved power corrupted and then, when someone turns that against mages, it suddenly becomes "no, no, not all mages are like that."

Ok, fine. Not all Templars would abuse mages, therefore the Circle is fine. Your logic.

The best free mage ending results in the mages forming their own independent Circle system and being accepted throughout Thedas. I don't recall any mages being put in charge of anything? But Templars are explicitely made to watch over mages and believe their are doing their deity's work. When you put a fanatic (and the codex entry for Templars outright says the Chantry prefers more fanatical templars rather than moral ones. So they'd rather have a Meredith than a Barris or Evangeline) in charge of someone who they believe is cursed by their deity and you believe it is your duty to stop them, abuse is inevitable. The fact that Templars like Barris or Evangeline are exceptions rather than the norm should be telling. 

[Lord Raijin]

No, it's an act of war. There is a difference.

War kills innocence... remember?

[Maiafay]

see it happen in Thedas with humans and elves and we saw the mages ignoring as their fellow mages decided to leave and go conquer the Hinterlands.

And what do you expect them to do? They are all apostates. Even if they suddenly ran around battling their own people, one: They'd look like idiots to the templars and everyone else - particularly to the templars who oh, decided to ignore the order to go back to Orlais. And two: they have no authority, no support, and no rights. Why should any of them risk their lives when they'd be killed right alongside those they were trying to fight?

By the way, why were the proper templars ignoring their brethren who ah, decided to kill anyone with a big stick in their hands? Oh right, most were being corrupted with red lyrium.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I wonder, if everyone was a mage, would the argument about mages being guilty still apply? Guess sacrifices are okay when you are not the group making the sacrifice. Would pro-templars agree with what occurs if they were mages and thus had to be put in a Circle with all its restrictions.

[Hair Serious Business]

You don't think declaring an Exalted Marches isn't an act of terrorism? Let's talk about how many innocent peopled died then.

Act of terrorism can be small with less people dead and it can be huge with great cost of humans lives,but no matter how small or big that act is terrorism is still terrorism! 

And what Andres did was just act of terrorism because he went for those who were innocent instead of those who are truly responsible.If he just poisoned one Elthina it would be simple assassination...but remember that when Chantry was blown that Elthina wasn't only one in it,other chantry sisters and people were also in it! 

[X Equestris]

You don't think declaring an Exalted Marches isn't an act of terrorism? Let's talk about how many innocent peopled died then.

Which Exalted March would that be? Because they're all pretty much justified. Attempting to stop Tevinter from reverting to its good old days, stopping the elves from driving deeper into Orlais, turning back the Qunari, and stopping Starkhaven from conquering the Free Marches.

[MisterJB]

War kills innocence... remember?

And it's still not terrorism. Learn to use words.

[X Equestris]

War kills innocence... remember?

That isn't the primary focus of war. Killing noncombatants is, however, the primary focus of terrorism.

[Hair Serious Business]

Quoting wiki since most in here can't tell difference between act of war,act of revolution and act of terrorism:

 

Terrorism is commonly defined as violent acts (or threat of violent acts) intended to create fear (terror), perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal, and which deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g., neutral military personnel or civilians). 

[Lord Raijin]

Act of terrorism can be small with less people dead and it can be huge with great cost of humans lives,but no matter how small or big that act is terrorism is still terrorism! 

And what Andres did was just act of terrorism because he went for those who were innocent instead of those who are truly responsible.If he just poisoned one Elthine it would be simple assassination...but remember that when Chantry was blown that Elthina wasn't only once in it,other chantry sisters and people were also in it! 

 

You know the irony about all of this? Is that none of you people can write up a constructive criticism regarding to how Anders could of done things differently.

 

1. Speaking with Elthina is meaningless and a waste of time.

2. Anders could not reason with Meredith because its impossible.

3. If the mundane letters to the Divine asking for a replacement of the Grand Cleric wasn't significant enough to drawl some attention... Anders letter to the Divine would be useless as well.

4. Ander's did not have the privilege to speak with the Viscount of Kirkwall regarding to the dire situation between the mages and the templars because the Viscount is dead... decapitated by the Arishok. Meredith was ruling the entire city at the time.

 

So tell me what could Anders do differently? Orsino tried getting the public attention by educating the public that mages are not as dangerous as the Templars preach about.

 

If Orsino method failed then Anders had no chance of doing the same... not without getting captured by the Templar's.

[Lord Raijin]

And it's still not terrorism. Learn to use words.

Learn to read first before you suggest others to use words.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Learn to read first before you suggest others to use words.

I wouldn't bother arguing with him. According to him, mages are guilty of crimes merely for existing and anyone who disagrees is wrong. And people say I'm bad when they should really look in the mirror.

[MisterJB]

I wouldn't bother arguing with him. According to him, mages are guilty of crimes merely for existing and anyone who disagrees is wrong. And people say I'm bad when they should really look in the mirror.

1-Considering how often I use the argument that "normal people have their freedoms restricted without committing crimes and mages should be stricter because they are more dangerous.", accusing me of thinking mages are guilty of crimes for existing is stupid. At least accuse me of something I can't disprove with a simple quote.

 

2-Considering this is an argument over a word's definition, how I might feel about mages really has nothing to do with it.

[Hair Serious Business]

*snip*

He then could have killed Meridith! He could have blown templars with who he does hold grudge!

He should have not blown Chantry and all innocent people who were in it! I'm sick to my stomach at how many innocents died in there,how many kids were in there! So whatever the f*ck Anders tried to achive,killing so many innocents I don't see justification good enough to go and murder people who never done anything to you! And I'm amazed how you find his act of terrorism justified and his reason good!!!??? Sorry I know terrorist in history who did had good intentions and reasons though their acts were still not justified and Ander's act is out of no where for no good reason at all! He attacked Chantry instead of Gallows that was seat of his true problems!? 

So on your question "What he could have done differently?" once again I will say if he had to blow something up then he should have blown templar's order together with Meridith! Chantry full of just common folks? TERRORISM!

[Il Divo]

You know the irony about all of this? Is that none of you people can write up a constructive criticism regarding to how Anders could of done things differently.

 

1. Speaking with Elthina is meaningless and a waste of time.

2. Anders could not reason with Meredith because its impossible.

3. If the mundane letters to the Divine asking for a replacement of the Grand Cleric wasn't significant enough to drawl some attention... Anders letter to the Divine would be useless as well.

4. Ander's did not have the privilege to speak with the Viscount of Kirkwall regarding to the dire situation between the mages and the templars because the Viscount is dead... decapitated by the Arishok. Meredith was ruling the entire city at the time.

 

So tell me what could Anders do differently? Orsino tried getting the public attention by educating the public that mages are not as dangerous as the Templars preach about.

 

If Orsino method failed then Anders had no chance of doing the same... not without getting captured by the Templar's.

Well, it's certainly not going to earn you friends. Given the Mage position is "we want freedom", his targeting of Elthina and the Chantry (and anyone who may have been inside) creates an us vs. them mentality. You're trying to take on the Templars and the Chantry and your declaration of War involves blowing up a building of religious significance? Involving a woman, who while misguided, was far more tolerant and understanding of Mages compared to the average citizen?