515 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryriena]

I actually got this after DA2, not DAI. Mainly because every other mage you met in Kirkwall was either totally insane or a mustache twirling blood mage. I actually thought Meredith was right despite all the misdeeds, because they are dangerous.

Then Bioware goes and laughs at the idea of choice.

I was almost finding it riddiolus at the amount of blood Mages in DA2, I mean really it got highly annoying to me.

[SnakeCode]

By your own words every act of war would be classifyed as terroism, I am not calling you racist ect

I was just pointing out I heard this same arrugment before within the south in regards to Slavery just worded differently.

Also your wrong, they are slaves to the Chantry several cleric admit this through out DA:O.

The Tranquil for example are forced into make runes and poition and sale them to make money for the circle. Then the ones that aren't tranquil are used as healers for the nobles and must do so under Chantry supervision.

Er no, they really aren't. Mages aren't property, or treated as such. They cannot be bought or sold. They can't be forced to work or denied compensation for said work. They aren't slaves. Characters saying so isn't proof of anything. Characters can be wrong just like people can.

 

The Tranquil are a different issue altogether, and blur the lines somewhat. Yet they still have free will, they aren't forced to work (at least I can't recall anything saying this in game or in WoT) most choose to out of a desire to stay useful.

[X Equestris]

By your own words every act of war would be classifyed as terroism, I am not calling you racist ect
I was just pointing out I heard this same arrugment before within the south in regards to Slavery just worded differently.
Also your wrong, they are slaves to the Chantry several cleric admit this through out DA:O.
The Tranquil for example are forced into make runes and poition and sale them to make money for the circle. Then the ones that aren't tranquil are used as healers for the nobles and must do so under Chantry supervision.

The difference between war and terrorism is that in terrorism the civilian populace is the primary, and often sole, focus of the attack. In warfare, the military of your opponent is the primary focus.
The writers have said that the Circle system isn't slavery. You could call it a prison, but the Circle does get paid, and the profits are distributed amongst the mages. The tranquil aren't forced to do anything. They don't even have to stay in the Circle. Most do because they feel more welcome and at home there.

[Ryriena]

Then by your definition every single act of war is terrorism. But terrorism is subjugating your opponents by making them so afraid they cannot resist you. If Anders Destroyed the chantry and causes the chantry to give in to his demands out of fear that would be classified as terrorism. But that was not his intention, his intention was to spark a war. So this was a political assassination

Also mostly I put this qoute as most can be arrgued by this qoute above. In War army's will targets civilans a lot more often now a days in city warfare looking at the Israel-Palestine conflict. I would also suggest those in the Chantry weren't non combatants due to the fact she had templars surrounding her, also the fact she was not helping things at all.

[DKJaigen]

The difference between war and terrorism is that in terrorism the civilian populace is the primary, and often sole, focus of the attack. In warfare, the military of your opponent is the primary focus.
The writers have said that the Circle system isn't slavery. You could call it a prison, but the Circle does get paid, and the profits are distributed amongst the mages. The tranquil aren't forced to do anything. They don't even have to stay in the Circle. Most do because they feel more welcome and at home there.

 

 

No  no no no. I blame this way of thinking because the western nations enjoy a colossal military advantage over the rest of the world and can practice the civilised war we currently see. But war is not about defeating an enemy's nations military but the ability to destroy said nations ability to create a military. in the past that means the destruction of agriculture , logistical hubs and industry which are all civilian targets

[Ryriena]

The difference between war and terrorism is that in terrorism the civilian populace is the primary, and often sole, focus of the attack. In warfare, the military of your opponent is the primary focus.
The writers have said that the Circle system isn't slavery. You could call it a prison, but the Circle does get paid, and the profits are distributed amongst the mages. The tranquil aren't forced to do anything. They don't even have to stay in the Circle. Most do because they feel more welcome and at home there.

The writers can say anything they won't it's still to me considered that they are indentured servants, which I mind you is a fourm of slavery no mater how you try to sidestep it.

[Ryriena]

No no no no. I blame this way of thinking because the western nations enjoy a colossal military advantage over the rest of the world and can practice the civilised war we currently see. But war is not about defeating an enemy's nations military but the ability to destroy said nations ability to create a military. in the past that means the destruction of agriculture , logistical hubs and industry which are all civilian targets

I agree!

[SnakeCode]

The writers can say anything they won't it's still to me considered that they are indentured servants thus are slaves.

And again, you can say anything you want, but you're still wrong. Unlike terrorism, slavery has a specific, set in stone definition, and the mages categorically don't fit that definition. 

[Paul E Dangerously]

And again, you can say anything you want, but you're still wrong. Unlike terrorism, slavery has a specific, set in stone definition, and the mages categorically don't fit that definition. 

 

It's more like lifetime imprisonment than it is slavery. You're in and death is the only way out*, unless you're the one lucky bastard that gets picked by the Wardens, or the adviser of some monarch.

 

*Unless you choose to sacrifice pretty much everything that you are (ie, Tranquility) and how much of a choice is that?

[SnakeCode]

It's more like lifetime imprisonment than it is slavery. You're in and death is the only way out*, unless you're the one lucky bastard that gets picked by the Wardens, or the adviser of some monarch.

 

*Unless you choose to sacrifice pretty much everything that you are (ie, Tranquility) and how much of a choice is that?

It's actually been said that (Pre Anders-Kirkwall-Boom) that mages could leave most towers for lengthy trips if they were considered trustworthy. Rhys reminisces about it in Asunder, Finn talks about it in Witch Hunt, Vivienne could go where she liked even post Kirkwall  (though she's a special case.)

 

Mages can even live outside of the circle with permission from the first enchanter. It's not a common occurrence, but we know that it did happen, it's not strictly 'to the death' when mages go into the circle.

 

I've always said the Circle is more akin to a quarantine zone than a prison. They can't leave because, though no fault of their own, they inherently place others at risk.

[X Equestris]

No  no no no. I blame this way of thinking because the western nations enjoy a colossal military advantage over the rest of the world and can practice the civilised war we currently see. But war is not about defeating an enemy's nations military but the ability to destroy said nations ability to create a military. in the past that means the destruction of agriculture , logistical hubs and industry which are all civilian targets

They aren't done with the intent of killing civilians, though. They are done with the intent of weakening your opponent's military. Terrorism, in contrast, focuses on killing civilians to spread fear. Nothing more.

[Ryriena]

The writers have basicly glossed over this fact by painting it as lifetime imprisonment, but I would clasfiy it as the Mages being indenture servants. Which is classifyed as a forum of slavery.

Yeah what a choice they are turned Tranquil or forced to die in the circle prison unless they are one of the lucky special snowflakes PC's or companions of
said PC

[X Equestris]

The writers have basicly glossed over this fact by painting it as lifetime imprisonment, but I would clasfiy it as the Mages being indenture servants. Which is classifyed as a forum of slavery.
Yeah what a choice they are turned Tranquil or forced to die in the circle prison unless they are one of the lucky special snowflakes PC's or companions of
said PC

And yet we have quite a bit of evidence of mages being allowed outside of their Circles. Rhys even mentions shopping in Val Royeaux back before the crackdown.

[Ryriena]

They aren't done with the intent of killing civilians, though. They are done with the intent of weakening your opponent's military. Terrorism, in contrast, focuses on killing civilians to spread fear. Nothing more.

I am looking at Israel's bombing of Gaza or the number of bombings done in Iraq for an example. So not to spread death of civilans in these nations.

[SnakeCode]

The writers have basicly glossed over this fact by painting it as lifetime imprisonment, but I would clasfiy it as the Mages being indenture servants. Which is classifyed as a forum of slavery.

Yeah what a choice they are turned Tranquil or forced to die in the circle prison unless they are one of the lucky special snowflakes PC's or companions of
said PC

They aren't servants either though. Again you're wrong. You'd have to change the definition of servitude/slavery in order to be able to consider mages such.

 

Your argument basically boils down to "Well it doesn't matter if that's not what slavery means, I still think they're slaves so therefore they are." It's absolutely horrible logic.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Re: Rhys and the like.

Each tower is pretty different. Ferelden's is on an island for a reason. Same with Kirkwall. Orlais probably was more lenient because some mages would be scions of powerful/wealthy families, but I certainly wouldn't expect the more free examples to be the norm.

[Ryriena]

And yet we have quite a bit of evidence of mages being allowed outside of their Circles. Rhys even mentions shopping in Val Royeaux back before the crackdown.

He's got the special snowflake stats as a NPC.

[X Equestris]

I am looking at Israel's bombing of Gaza or the number of bombings done in Iraq for an example. So not to spread death of civilans in these nations.

And that is what happens when your opponent uses civilian targets as a shield. You either let them keep shooting at you, or you retaliate and risk collateral damage.

[X Equestris]

He's got the special snowflake stats as a NPC.

It wasn't just him, though. These were privileges that they all had.

[SnakeCode]

Re: Rhys and the like.

Each tower is pretty different. Ferelden's is on an island for a reason. Same with Kirkwall. Orlais probably was more lenient because some mages would be scions of powerful/wealthy families, but I certainly wouldn't expect the more free examples to be the norm.

Well devs have said that Kirkwall (which was by far the most harsh) was the exception, which would make the more lenient circles the norm.

 

We know that mages in the Fereldan circle could go on trips (Finn) and that they used to be able to leave the tower. Their freedoms were restricted somewhat due to Anders repeatedly tried to escape.

[Ryriena]

You do know what indenture servants means correct, which is

Indentured servitude was a labor system whereby young people paid for their passage to the New World by working for an employer for a certain number of years.

according to the declaration of humans rights of rights article four Article 4

"No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited by all nations.

[MikaelNovasun]

*snip

 

Um, doesnt that defeat your own agruement? Indentured servitured is work done for payemnt of a perceived debt. How is that the circle system?

[SnakeCode]

You do know what indenture servants means correct, which is

So you agree with me then? The mages clearly aren't indentured servants.

[X Equestris]

You do know what indenture servants means correct, which is according to the declaration of humans rights of rights article four Article 4

The declaration of human rights is worth about as much as toilet paper, seeing as no one really seems to care about enforcing it.

[Ryriena]

If they get paid for a debte all wages go to said circle then they are slaves to said systems according to the UN