515 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryriena]

The declaration of human rights is worth about as much as toilet paper, seeing as no one really seems to care about enforcing it.

I care about it

[X Equestris]

If they get paid for a debte all wages go to said circle then they are slaves to said systems according to the UN

The Circle gets paid, and pays those profits to its mages. Besides, the UN is a complete and utter joke.

[Ryriena]

Whatever, it's still indenture servants.

[SnakeCode]

Whatever, it's still indenture servants.

No, they still aren't. I can say grass is pink until i'm blue in the face. It Wouldn't make me right.

[X Equestris]

Whatever, it's still indenture servants.

No, they're not. They get paid. You might be able to say they are prisoners, but they aren't indentured servants or slaves.

[MikaelNovasun]

Whatever, it's still indenture servants.

 

I don't see it. I see can seem them as prisioners. They are not forced to work, they can CHOOSE to do work outside the circle if the senior enchanters and templars deem it safe. They still have freedoms that are highly restricted due to the danger that they may impose.

[dragonflight288]

I most certainly feel sympathy for the rank and file mages who had a war forced on them that they didn't want. I feel sorry for the tranquil who are dismissed by both mages and templars, and were slaughtered to make the ocularum. I feel sorry for the templars who genuinely wanted to protect people and do the best they can. 

 

The leadership on both sides both suck. Fiona indentured herself and all the mages with her to Tevinter and the Venatori, to the complaints of many mages in Redcliff itself. And Lord-Seeker Lucius knowingly allowed an envy demon to impersonate him while he went about trying to destroy the entire Seeker order when he found out that each and every seeker is made tranquil and then cured of it with a Spirit of Faith and their own corrupt practices over the years thanks to the book of secrets he inherited from Lambert, and the entirety of the templar leadership knowingly allowed the templars to be corrupted and turned into monsters with red lyrium while purging those who asked questions. 

 

If found it ironic that the templars and seekers give a huge line about the dangers of magic and demons, yet knowingly work with a demon and the leaders actively destroy everything their order ever claimed to stand for, sometimes committing the worst atrocities in-game like in Emprise du Leon. 

 

The rank and file of both sides got screwed. 

[Hurbster]

Er, are those people who are insisting that life in the Circles is akin to being an indentured servant getting confused with what happened to the mages after Fiona sold them out to Tevinter ?

 

Alexius specifically states that they were recruited at great cost and will become citizens of Tevinter after that cost has been repaid - leading to Fiona finally questioning what she did when Alexius does not care about women and children being indentured.

 

Because life in the circles is nothing like that.

[dragonflight288]

Er, are those people who are insisting that life in the Circles is akin to being an indentured servant getting confused with what happened to the mages after Fiona sold them out to Tevinter ?

 

Alexius specifically states that they were recruited at great cost and will become citizens of Tevinter after that cost has been repaid - leading to Fiona finally questioning what she did when Alexius does not care about women and children being indentured.

 

Because life in the circles is nothing like that.

 

I got the impression that Fiona and Alexius made a deal on where the noncombatants would stand, and he ignored that deal once she was no longer in any position to enforce anything about their arrangement, to her dismay. 

[TevinterSupremacist]

As we discussed before, there is a difference in quantity. No normal child could ever do what Connor did.

I believe that justifies the Circle. You believe it doesn't.
 

You're the one making a claim here. I'm just saying that we have no argument why the line ought to be drawn exactly at 5.64 and not 5.63 or 5.65.

[Lord Raijin]

It's more like lifetime imprisonment than it is slavery. You're in and death is the only way out*, unless you're the one lucky bastard that gets picked by the Wardens, or the adviser of some monarch.

 

*Unless you choose to sacrifice pretty much everything that you are (ie, Tranquility) and how much of a choice is that?

 

I wouldn't exactly call being the lucky one if you get picked out in a lineup to become a Grey Warden. Their is an approx 70% to 80% chances of you dying during the joining process. The mages are not fully aware of the Joining as it's kept a secret, and so when the mage accepts the offer isn't aware that they just signed their own death warrant because one they accept their is no going back.
 

[blahblahblah]

Well devs have said that Kirkwall (which was by far the most harsh) was the exception, which would make the more lenient circles the norm.

 

We know that mages in the Fereldan circle could go on trips (Finn) and that they used to be able to leave the tower. Their freedoms were restricted somewhat due to Anders repeatedly tried to escape.

What about the real Cole then, who was starve to death by the templars? It's very funny that you never see the Circles as prisons for mages and the templars acts as their jailers. This is not Hogwarts!

[Ryriena]

I find it absolutely funny that the pro templars take the word of God as fact on life in the circles.

In fact, we've got documented cases of outright neglect in Cole's case, bruises on Mages via testimony from one of the circles Chantry sisters in Haven to show that Templar abuses were more widespread than originally stated.

Even Cullen states to the female mage Warden that some Templar Knights brag about killing the mage if they take too long or get taken by a demon during a
Harrowing. I find that sicking that they would brag about killing someone.

[SnakeCode]

What about the real Cole then, who was starve to death by the templars? It's very funny that you never see the Circles as prisons for mages and the templars acts as their jailers. This is not Hogwarts!

I said abuses are rare, not non existent. Well done for finding one example. Really put me in my place. I'm well aware of things that need to be improved upon within the Circles. I feel the positives of the Circle outweigh the nevatives however.


@Ryriena- I'm not pro-templar. I don't know what that even means. I lean towards pro-circle. Though I am in favour of reforms, and better oversight of the templars.

[Boost32]

Well devs have said that Kirkwall (which was by far the most harsh) was the exception, which would make the more lenient circles the norm.

We know that mages in the Fereldan circle could go on trips (Finn) and that they used to be able to leave the tower. Their freedoms were restricted somewhat due to Anders repeatedly tried to escape.

Even in Kirkwall mages can go out of the Circles with permission, Bethany can go to Cheateu Haine with a group of mages and can go with Hawke to investigate the people who are attacking them in Legacy.

[Barquiel]

As Hawke's sister she probably received some special treatment and was shielded from the bulk of abuse. But apart from these two missions Hawke couldn't even visit his/her sister in the circle...who is in the exact same city!

[Lord Raijin]

Even in Kirkwall mages can go out of the Circles with permission, Bethany can go to Cheateu Haine with a group of mages and can go with Hawke to investigate the people who are attacking them in Legacy.

 

Bethany doesn't really count because Shes a Mary Sue due to the fact that shes a full sister of the Champion of Kirkwall. Shes untouchable and receives unwarranted preferential treatment.

 

I find it hard to believe that if she was some regular mage that Knight-Commander Meredith would just let her leave the Circle for family related event.

[Ryriena]

Bethany doesn't really count because Shes a Mary Sue due to the fact that shes a full sister of the Champion of Kirkwall. Shes untouchable and receives unwarranted preferential treatment.
 
I find it hard to believe that if she was some regular mage that Knight-Commander Meredith would just let her leave the Circle for family related event.

I also found it hard to believe that Meredith allowed her to go to Cheateu Haine for a small party was also very restrictive of the mages at this point in the story.

[X Equestris]

Bethany doesn't really count because Shes a Mary Sue due to the fact that shes a full sister of the Champion of Kirkwall. Shes untouchable and receives unwarranted preferential treatment.
 
I find it hard to believe that if she was some regular mage that Knight-Commander Meredith would just let her leave the Circle for family related event.

Someone doesn't know what Mary Sue means.

Gamlen visited her in the Circle, as I recall.

[Ashagar]

Gamlen did indeed visit her, he also visits carver, he's also the one who breaks the news to them on what happens to their dear mother.

[Ryriena]

Also Gamlen was related to Hawke so he gets speical snowflake status that other non noble's don't get. Also Da2 retaconed a lot of things you learned on the circles Mages life, since most Mages were sent farther away from their family. I remember reading the circle codex in DAO saying something like this happens so they would kill all ties to said family so they only would serve the Chantary.

[In Exile]

The Keepers can be overruled, but that isn't to say they're figureheads. They still make a lot of the decisions. The U.S. president can be overruled, does that make the presidency a figurehead position?

The Magisterium can be overruled but Dorian will laugh you out of the room if you say they don't rule. We have no idea how the elders are involved. All we've seen is the Keepers rule by fiat and without opposition. Maybe the elders have a role but we haven't seen them play it.

[Lord Raijin]

I also found it hard to believe that Meredith allowed her to go to Cheateu Haine for a small party was also very restrictive of the mages at this point in the story.

 

The only way for a mage to actually leave the circle is if they sneak out late at night.... well that's what Meredith says when she accuses them of sneaking out late at night do do their dark blood magic rituals.

Someone doesn't know what Mary Sue means.

Gamlen visited her in the Circle, as I recall.

Yes I know what a Mary Sue means.

 

So what? Family members are allowed to visit their love ones in the circle... if their "stable" enough.  The Circle is a prison after all.

[Ryriena]

The only way for a mage to actually leave the circle is if they sneak out late at night.... well that's what Meredith says when she accuses them of sneaking out late at night do do their dark blood magic rituals.

Actually, I agree it felt really forced into the story to provide the reason that Bethany had to be in the plot of MOTA, which I could only digest her being with us for Legacy, if I had done so at the end of Act 3 with Cullen in charge of said circle.

[Melca36]

I said abuses are rare, not non existent. Well done for finding one example. Really put me in my place. I'm well aware of things that need to be improved upon within the Circles. I feel the positives of the Circle outweigh the nevatives however.


@Ryriena- I'm not pro-templar. I don't know what that even means. I lean towards pro-circle. Though I am in favour of reforms, and better oversight of the templars.

 

 

 

Outside of Haven there are two chantry sisters and one of them is speaking of the abuse the templars did to the mages. Its not as rare as you think.  I believe the Templars need to change and Circles should reformed but if a mage is willing to kill one of their own if they are a blood mage...they should not have limits placed upon them